Super Star Destroyers Work in 4.0

[Darth Abyss]

[member="Travis Caalgen"] Besides the fact that the idea of a ship taking 7 minutes to turn around makes me laugh, this is actually a very good example of what is discussed here. I mean the negative effects of losing the ships are an actual weakness.

[member="Darth Metus"] if you really want this, then look at this submission and try to think really hard how limited and valuable a ship of triple size would have to be, and try to build a rule suggestion based on that.

 

[Travis Caalgen]

Also, weren't you big on the SSD train the last time this was discussed?

Why does that even matter? Opinions can change in a matter of months.

I just managed to realize that after getting the Empire's flagship, anything over five kilometers is a waste of time, effort, and resources when your enemy is going to be fielding crudely-made destroyers, and a plethora of cruisers and frigates. It's the Death Star argument all over again because the only use of supers on Chaos is going to be the e-peen measuring that you guys are trying for.

 

[Atlas Kane]

I dunno how this hasn't been posted yet, but I think it demonstrates nicely that anything can be beaten, given sufficient ingenuity ... or luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbsIUX2LoJQ​

 

[Edric Vanyan]

*Sits over here with Aedan Miles and our Star Fighters, waiting for someone to make the oversized targets that are SSDs*

 

[Laira Darkhold]

I guess my main argument against would be there is only One Flagship made in 4.0 with 41 Posts (Nothing compared to the old school 400 post requirement no one ever actually did) and less than the average Dominion these days, with some factions shelling out 2-3 of those a month. 30 posts used to be the standard for Battlecrusiers in 3.0 and they got shelled out at a decent speed. Just about every faction made one or more that I can recall. Even Event Ships before then were more populous and much harder to get.

Are they Iconic? Sure, everyone remembers the Executor (the only one that is actually Iconic imo) but clearly they aren't all that attractive to the majority of factions or there would be more of them.

Personally, I like the idea of big ships to a degree (that 60km one only aggravates me as it is clearly just overcompensating in an attempt to do Empire Strikes Back but bigger just like the last movie), my compromise would be to request the max size of Flagships increase, rather than a new classification. Figure that will have better traction from above and there used to be a 6km ship on the board, why not again.

 

[Tefka]

Factory Admin & I just had a short discussion.

Cira: I like the idea of productive discussion surrounding Flagships, they obviously are so easy to build these days and there's no longer a max cap on them yet they still need help in appealing to Major Factions.

Tef: omg i dont care just make them bigger already

 

[Malok]

[member="Draco Vereen"]

I'd honestly prefer if the Flagship rules simply expanded to encompass lengths up to Executor size, but I know that sweeping changes usually require an intermediate stage. Tying them to influence clouds or limit one per faction feels like a happy middle ground.

[member="Travis Caalgen"]

Personally, I'm not gunning for an Executor. I just like to have the ability to submit canonical things. Ship length has been a constantly evolving subject on the board. There was a time when 2,000 meters was the maximum and numerous suggestion threads/discussions happened to get that changed. That said, I feel you on why your opinion changed. However, I just want the option to be there.

[member="Darth Abyss"]

I'm suggesting the rule be adjusted and that we trust our judges and our creators to work together to balance anything that gets submitted. I don't think it's necessary to basically build a test SSD concept when the argument is "permit me the ability to submit one and judge it for balance, per the norm, at that point."

 

[Tefka]

[member="Darth Metus"]

We're not going to approve Executor size, I can tell you that right now.

But we'll move slowly in that direction.

Also:

Just because some Judges spout off doesn't mean the Factory Admin, the guy/girl in charge, is leaning the same way. And he/she is the shot caller, so please wait in the future before you seek Justice-By-Status-Updates.

 

[Janick Beauchamp]

[member="Darth Metus"] While a writer can, technically, deploy hundreds of kilometers in a thread, assuming no ship over 3 km, and the PC's flagship being the one that eats up 3 km in one go, with no escort over 2 km, in practice, it gets very cumbersome to write past 20 km (15 km is already a stretch for a writer using carrier tactics; I know properly writing about how a character goes about using carrier tactics usually makes fleeting writing more cumbersome than if you had a character that does not) if someone wants the fleet to be actively bearing storyline weight.

If you switch a 3 km battlecruiser for a SSD and still want the SSD to play an active storyline role, you might raise the practical limits of writing if your escorts are otherwise unchanged, but you're still far from hundreds of kilometers; a SSD will require at least as many kilometers in escorts as the SSD itself. The writers that actually used hundreds of kilometers usually keep these fleets as background noise in threads.

Personally I would only raise the maximum flagship size to 6 km, but I would not go over that. Oh and add the following line in the Flagship rules:

A faction can have, at most, a number of kilometers in flagships equal to the number of planets in its Influence Cloud (e.g. a faction that has 10 planets can have up to 10 km in flagships)

 

[RIP Carlyle Rausgeber]

We're not going to approve Executor size, I can tell you that right now.

Aww....

Please! Pretty please!

Why walk when you can run? Why shouldn't factions be able to build massive starships?

My belief is that if we're going to push out with SSD's, we should go all the way. It's like pulling off a band aid. You don't slowly pull it off. You do it in one piece, and get it over with, rather than incrementally pushing out meter-age updates that will own serve to make people submit even larger vessels to keep up. If the site were to place a nice massive cap now, of say 20km, then I could say with some certainty, people with an interest in SSD's would be quite happy.

This thread and your comments here have been heartening Tef, but I think we should push further and beyond.

 

[Cathul Thuku]

[member="Carlyle Rausgeber"] Since the very beginning of the SSD dossier you were in favor of that, and I understand where the appeal of SSDs comes from.

But I realize that, however attractive SSDs might be to some writers, there would likely be no new fleeting writer just because we extend the maximum size of what's allowable. Also I do not think it would affect the decisions of any existing fleeters to continue doing it either.

Perhaps it would be workable to reduce the minimum number of writers required for a flagship thread from 7 to 5, too.

 

[RIP Carlyle Rausgeber]

But I realize that, however attractive SSDs might be to some writers, there would likely be no new fleeting writer just because we extend the maximum size of what's allowable. Also I do not think it would affect the decisions of any existing fleeters to continue doing it either.

The idea of bringing in SSD's is one to me that isn't designed to bring new fleeters into the fold. It isn't about expanding the community. It's about having new, cool toys to work with. If SSD's weren't a thing, I would still fleet. But given we're talking about the implementation of it, I belong to the camp that says, "If you're gonna do it, go all the way!"

If we're going to bring SSD's in, smash it. Have us bring in the full meterage. Don't use stop gap measures which will be changed down the road.

 

[Tefka]

There's a lot of niche hobbies here within Chaos. We try to cater to all.

This one is the flavor of the week, but that doesn't mean we should rush into judgement so hastily, [member="Carlyle Rausgeber"].

Label it stop-gap, label it whatever you want, but the Factory Administrator will take as much time and exhibit as much caution as she needs to. All I promise is, this thread's particular suggestion has been picked up and is being actively discussed.

 

[Jessica Med-Beq]

[member="Carlyle Rausgeber"] Here's what I suggest: hold a test in a non-canon thread with a tentative SSD sub in a spoiler.