The Future of the New Jedi Order - Have your say!

[Republic Engineering]

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[Veino Garn]

I dig it. Looks like some pretty snazzy changes and updates now. Have some ideas I can bring into play once I flesh them out a little more for myself.

Mission board is an excellent idea- those have been mostly successful everywhere I've seen them and keeps up a continuous state of ideas and stories.

I would leave the decision making on the forum though and open to other members. Final decision can be made by staff, but the rest of the faction should at least be involved.

 

[Gabriel Sionoma]

One of the things that made this faction unique, in reference to lightside factions, is how the jedi were assimilated into the leadership. If you replace what we currently have with the proposed scheme of grandmaster and council, I think you take teeth out of the above claim.

The beauty of the Jedi Marshal system is that it allows corporation of the Jedi in a manner that makes them effectively equivalent to NFU characters of similar roles (commander for instance). If you seperate them out, then that sort of null and voids it.

The argument that we are no longer at war is sort of an empty one, as we are entirely capable of crafting our own enemies and driving the story, no matter what major faction is currently on the map.

I'm opposed to the change because it feels entirely cookie cutter to me.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

All for it. Marshall rank and that system has... Well... You know my thoughts on it. Unique and different doesn't by definition mean better, or useful. A fork with bent tongs is unique. But it sucks as a fork.

 

[Zark San Tekka]

I'm not opposed to restructuring and re-titling as needed, but I do have to agree with [member="Gabriel Sionoma"] that we shouldn't be walking back the militancy of the NJO quite so much. As a more peace minded Order, there would be less to distinguish us from the Silver Jedi. I am all for fleshing out the more service-oriented roles of the Order, but I think Jedi serving with our military is part of what makes us unique as Gabriel said.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

No one is suggesting removing the Jedi serving with the military. Just removing it as pretty much the only focus for tge NJO so others have a spot to shine in the story. And I say, and advocate, for this being the writer of mostly combat characters.

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

The reason the current system allegedly works is because a few PCs are Jedi Marshals and the rest kind of just.... exist. There is no real distinguishable structure to it besides the fact that some people have titles and some are entities in the system. I don't think the new system would change that very much if at all. The only discernible difference is a distinguishable governing NPC entity as opposed to an amorphous group of Marshals led by a head NPC. Now, I don't have any preference for either side. There are good arguments for both, but it looks like more favor the reforms.

So a suggestion: retain Marshals as a separate hierarchy subordinate to the Council. Maybe that's already in the current suggested reforms and I missed it.

The warrant for this is that there is the potential for Warlordism. Potential. There's a lack of oversight w/ re to the Marshals. They're self-policing. Do they need oversight? Well that's not my decision. I'm simply here to point out that the IC potential exists. I don't necessarily agree by forwarding this argument that there needs to be a remedy.

Ultimately, most of our Jedi resemble loose affiliates more than a structured order. Should we retain that just because we like it OOC, or does the newIC dictate a change - good or bad - that would lead to better stories and more participation?

Either way, if we are going to lose members to SJO it will be because they have Jedi in their name. Otherwise, they are different enough to be considered apostates.

 

[Republic Engineering]

If we were to retain the rank of Marshal, rather than as my extremely rough idea mentioned it becoming a Wartime rank, I think having it be subordinate to both the NPC Council/Grand Marshal as well as the GADF High Command would fit the general concept of being a Marshal. That way, in my mind at least, it allows for those that have/earned the prestigious title to have a system of checks and balances to combat the potential for Warlord-esque behaviour; due to the fact they're leading large sections of troops into battle, and it's been noted throughout history that even the most Powerful of Jedi can fall prey to the temptation of the Darkside - it's a smart decision to have a contingency plan in place. I don't plan on heavily policing any organization within the Umbrella of the NJO, as I believe that our Current and possible Future Roster of Master's and Knights would be more than suitable to act as the self-policing entity of the NJO and our Allied affiliates.

I'm not too keen on the idea of us mimicking the Grand Army of the Republic (Canon), as we currently are, by allowing Padawan's and Junior Knights (Freshly promoted from Padawan's.) to lead large portions of the military into battle. That was touched on in my opening post, but not clarified due to my time constraints last night. Nevertheless, I'd rather see a reduction in command capacity for those two aforementioned ranks, unless counteracted by special exception, so that Marshal's have the authority over... say an entire Legion of Alliance troopers, Knights could be Masters of a Company, and Padawan's would fill the role of attaché's/ observers thus granting them the opportunity to learn from a Knight or a Master, and that we don't have a repeat of certain events in certain dominions.

Though we'd be changing things OOC - I think it would make for some great possibilities for stories and the like for our Dominions and Faction threads regarding this reformation. What we'd be doing, in this regard, would be setting up an OOC framework that would be filled out as we wrote together. Allowing the NPC Council to become more than just a circle of Faceless Jedi and the Current Grand Marshal, and the for entire Order to be more than just... there. I'd love to make it become this entire - living, breathing thing that evolves as we write.

But, while I wear the FO Badge, that's not entirely up to me. Not if I wanted to keep you guys around an make you feel like this is your faction, and not some pet project of mine. I merely started the conversation in the hopes of getting your thoughts and ideas, so that we can communally move forward and make it something that we all can be proud of - and enjoy.

 

[Micah Talith]

I personally do not want to lose Master Omai Rhen as our leader of the NJO. Be it as a grandmaster or grandmarshal if we were to split things.

He's had a wealth of character development and use as our NPC Grand Marshal and I do not want to lose that or have him brush to the side.

Currently we do have peaceful marshals. [member="Avalore Eden"] is a Marshal and she leads the Circle of Healers. We also had more support characters; the thing is that only those who are the most active get more spotlight on what they are doing.

Gabriel is right, what made NJO different was the Marshal system. I don't mind change, but I also would suggest a compromise.

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

I am for keeping Omai, but I have never seen consistent use with that character. His presence is minimal if not entirely absent from doms and invasions. The only substantial development he has is in private threads, which is fine, but doesn't benefit the faction.

I don't count a few cursory sentences in a Dom intro to equate to character development, which is why I think NPC command structures are lame and should only exist because writers are mean spirited, jealous and fickle

 

[Gabriel Sionoma]

[member="Ryan Korr"]

Omai Rhen was a fairly substantial component of Gabe's development into a Marshall, as well as other early members of the faction. NPC command structure is as much for personal use as it for the faction as whole. Perhaps the issues lies in not using the tools we currently have rather than some inherent flaw in the system altogether.

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

Probably, though that begs the question of why the tools are underused. More publicity would help, along with a highlights reel of personality, appearance, etc so that writers can have a unity of portrayal. Getting those out in a high traffic place for easy public viewing might prove an apt remedy to underuse.

 

[Jsc]

I don't participate in the NJO.

That said. I enjoy the Marshall (Warlord) system.

It worked during Omega Pyre and really let a Lightsider kick some serious tail. Giving your character almost unlimited access to the tools, commands, and vehicles of war that it took to get stuff done. So I'd say keep it. Don't assimilate your Jedi Warfighters into the Navy. Keep them the special-special snowflakes of ultimate power and destruction that they are. It works great in PvP. And that's a paramount concern for any PvP Faction. Remind your politicians of that great truth often enough IC and they'll get in line. Cowering behind the supermen of freedom that you are. Jedi Marshalls. Love it.

Everything else looks vanilla as usual. I'm sure some people will love that too. Doing 'peaceful' things, dressing in bathrobes, and growing flowers. Sure. Whatever. That's Jedi too I suppose. Sounds fine. Go for it.

 

[Kana Truden]

Grandmaster and an NPC Council of Masters

No.

Because of certain unnamed former associates of mine I will always associate the Grand Master title with dividing the Jedi again as well as in general just being on a slippery slope that could risk us getting a PC Grand Master and I refuse to think we'd even consider that.

The whole thing that appeals to me is the fact that we as a faction aren't using the Order part of NJO as our selling point. The jedi here are almost just a part of the army and that is what I like about it. If we move to a system with a Council and a Grand Master we will take too much of a step back in the direction of the very same faction I chose to leave nearly a year ago.

 

[Republic Engineering]

What's stopping someone from claiming the Grand Marshal seat as their own? Which is essentially the same position with a different name.

[member="Kana Truden"]

 

[Micah Talith]

What's stopping someone from claiming the Grand Marshal seat as their own? Which is essentially the same position with a different name.

[member="Kana Truden"]

The faction staff and the members. The grand marshal was set up to always be an npc. You can bet if someone made a play to do away with the npc Omai Rhen as grand marshal, there are many writers here who will become very vocal and against it.

The system was put in place because it was distinctly different from the republic and made it simple. It was establish to ensure no pc would ever be in that position.

 

[Republic Engineering]

And if the NPC Grandmaster along with the Council were made NPC's in the similar vein, would that not be the same situation we are in now with a more plausible piece of background fluff that befits the Jedi?

[member="Micah Talith"]

 

[Gabriel Sionoma]

[member="Astarii Saren"]

Why does it need to befit the Jedi in particular? This faction was formed as a means to deviate from the normality of councils and grandmasters (I.e. it was formed as an alternative to the GR). The faction is inherently lightside but it was never intended to glorify the Jedi Religion, but more the purpose behind the religion (offsetting the darkside and those who bring harm).

The Grand Marshall seat is held by Omai Rhen, who was particularly offset from the traditions of the Jedi Order (in particular, he's not entirely peaceful seeking and he's quite adamantly opposed to even the temptation of the darkside). Replacing that concept with conventional council and grand master fluff, npc or not, guts the foundation and origin of the Faction.

 

[Republic Engineering]

To be truthful, it's the choice in the Name of the entire organization. If we're supposed to be leaning away from the teachings of Luke's Order, then why'd we take his Order's name in the first place, when there's better choices out there? Then from the organization itself, it's built far too much like the One Sith for my liking - with a single being holding power and such. I haven't been on the site for as long as many of you, so I don't know the history nor do I know every facet of this faction. The Information and Resources section was and has been out of date for a lengthy period of time. If the NPC's were fleshed out in private threads, despite the fact that they should've gone through that process in faction orientated threads instead, then they should've been kept up to date so folks can read through and reference the changes - thus keeping the NPC true to it's core when the various members of the Faction Staff take over their reigns.

[member="Gabriel Sionoma"]

Nevertheless, we're getting off point. The way that I see it, is that NJO is broken from the ground up. I aim to fix it and will not do it by myself, thus why I've asked for as much help as people are willing to give me in order to achieve this goal. Like I mentioned in the above paragraph and that's been mentioned by others in the chat, the Alliance was created to be the narrative foil for the One Sith. They're gone now, so we can't thrive in their shadow anymore. So if any one has a better idea on how to flesh out what we've currently got, or make something vanilla enough to be familiar and easily understood by new folks - then please feel free to list it below.

 

[Jsc]

...would that not be the same situation we are in now with a more plausible piece of background fluff...

Plausible is a funny word to use. I think I'll play with that a bit here.

I always thought the point of the GA, including it's creation, was to create a no-holds-barred PvP theater for beating up the Sith and seeking vengeance for the OS Invasions in the core. So? Why on earth anybody would even want to reform the NJO is blasphemous to me. It worked. Nay. It kicked bahooty! It retook the Core and put down the Old Enemy. Haha. Yeehaa! The NJO and the Marshalls kicked butt. And that was awesome to see. I myself celebrate the writers, and the faction structure, that pulled it off. Way to go team!

So again. Plausible is a funny word to use. One might even begin to wonder that after suffering such grand success? Why anything has to change.