The Vote

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

Ok. Hopefully this post of mine will be less of a wall of text. Well, maybe.



I guess it comes down to a cost-benefit analyis. Hmm. That's a nice term! Anyhow, personally I think the Republic loses more from a merger because OP is more inactive at present and a smaller base of active members based on the check-in at least. Not to mention even more territory to defend when they're already committed against the OS.



On the OP side theoretically it gains more people to interact with and support in battles. But then that requires a concrete plan of what the faction intends to do, beyond prosecuting the war with the OS. Merging does mean getting dragged into other people's conflicts. Also playing the senate game which has admittedly been amusing at times (e.g. Brunswick taking a dive down the pod and the recent debate), but hardly productive most of time (hence no surprise that the Pubs neutered it after Tef gave them a facelift). Then there's the problems with the Jedi Order, which have plagued the Pubs since day one. After all, if it goes ahead the merger is supposed to be a permanent arrangement and not just a short-term one.


So on the positive side it means more members and thus potentially more activity, which is something both groups need (though more people is not a magic wand), on the negative a radical internal overhaul and inheritance of the Republic's issues.


From a purely self-centred perspective, Sio will carry on the same she does either way and still be a Dark Jedi aristo femnazi. :d

 

[Ayden Cater]

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"]

It's true that the merger has its costs. But I think the risks are worth it. And I say that as the man who would inherit a lot of these problems. It would fall to me to propose and execute changes to fix them, to mediate between people and find compromise.

But I think OP's done a good job proving that it can defend itself, even with a smaller member base than the Republic. We've been in a lot of Invasions this year and we've only lost two (I don't count Fondor/Atrisia). Sure more space means the One Sith have more places to attack, but one faction, one invasion.

It's dangerous, it has the potential to all blow up in my face, but I accept those risks. It's a challenge and it's unknown. That struggle makes the ties I make with everyone that much stronger.

And for me personally, that Ashin/Jorrus has signed off on the idea means it's worth the struggle now to convince more of you that this is a good plan.

Our identity wouldn't change. The Senate would not control us, the Jedi would not control us.

Fringe Force groups would still be welcome.

All that would change is the name of the faction we work towards building.

 

[Aeron Kreelan]

I am still very much unconvinced that the Senate nor the Jedi won't control us -- for the simple fact of the matter that those two have controlled and dominated the republic as a whole. So much so that it has time and again, swept the NFU's who desire to be like Havoc squad or other army based deals get swept off the side. Why? Because it is Jedi dominated and people want to play Jedi. It is something they know and can relate to because the movies make them aspire to do so.

The fact of the matter is that their Force philosophy does not coincide with those of the fringe groups and the methods that OP's government utilizes. More so now because they don't even have a council to adhere to -- which means that they'll be lead by whatever Grandmaster is in charge in this political trio.

It isn't just you Ayden that this stands to blow up in your face, but every single OP member here. If it fails, what then? Where is our identity then?

Where do we go? There won't be a Protectorate then to hightail to.

Because small we may be, but at least we stand on the same wavelength we've always been on come what may.

And if OP as a faction ever ends up kicking the bucket, i'd rather we drop to minor first and keep our roots, our conviction -- and if it fails then, then at least we'd have done it by our terms. In one crazy blaze of glory.

 

[Ayden Cater]

[member="Aeron Kreelan"]

But this isn't a matter of OP failing.

If the merger doesn't happen, we'll keep on keeping on.

This is just a chance for us to try something new, to make a faction greater than OP or the Republic individually.

And as I pointed out to Kiskla, if things don't work out for us after the merge, and if we end up on a chopping block as a major galactic power, folks can split off to handle the after-effects as they see fit. That could mean going underground a la the Rebellion, or it could mean coming back together to reform a certain PMC.

Just because we're looking at merging doesn't mean that we'll all suddenly become strangers.

And the Jedi don't control all Force User groups. If this merger happened, the Shapers of Kro Var would continue to be Shapers of Kro Var. The Disciples of Twilight would continue to be the Disciples of Twilight.

It would be accepted on our part to accept the Senate, in all its flaws. On their part, they would have to accept that there are other Force groups out there that do not want to be controlled like the Jedi. And that will not change.

 

[Aeron Kreelan]

Aye, and get completely swallowed up by them.

We had the jedi covenant here for a bit. That was exciting. Why? Because it was a small group whose members wanted to see what they could do on Bespin.

Having the entire Jedi Order is another matter entirely. Aye, PC wise we've never had much from each of these smaller force organizations to begin with, but that was okay. Enter with a dominate Force User Organization, that changes completely, because the focus will be on training in those particular methods --- and then propagate even more jedi.

Not Shapers. Not Wardens. Not Zeison Sha. But Jedi. With their code, their methodology, and their majority rules.

 

[Ayden Cater]

[member="Aeron Kreelan"]

And if I could guarantee that there would remain a place for non-Jedi to gather, collaborate, and write as they see fit?

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

[member="Aeron Kreelan"]


Truth be told, if she ended up inundated with Jedi and their rules Sio would get murderous. The dark Jedi tag is there for a reason. And on the alignment metre the Eldorai on average are far more grey than light side. Along with being xenophobic in general in most cases.



Well, if a merger happens Kaeshana Confed will not change its rules. If that leads to conflict, well, * points to sig * But then in the light of the latest spat of defections and schisms, I'm a bit sceptical about the Jedi being able to control much these days.

 

[Aeron Kreelan]

[member="Aeron Kreelan"]

And if I could guarantee that there would remain a place for non-Jedi to gather, collaborate, and write as they see fit?

We aren't talking about a subforum here for the rest of the buckeroos to do what they will. Because again, it's not about giving them a place for them to gather collaborate and write as they see fit, it's about the majority being a "jedi and republic mindset" and pushing their agenda forward just due to sheer numbers.

Sheer numbers in votes just like in this one -- where the minority will remain the minority because they are the minority. We are small in number here.

Just look what happened with Liberty Concord. They had everything available to them. Their own training. Their own resources. Their own place to train within the Protectorate.

And unfortunately, things didn't go so well for them.

 

[Brad Solo]

I keep hearing None Force Users would just get swept under the rug. Not in all of those exact words but that is the of some.

I don’t see that happening with [member="Ayden Cater"] as a co staff member. Granted he would only have the duty of the military but I’m confidant he will give None Force users attention as well as Force Users to. Under his watch I believe NFUs have someone to go to if they have questions, concerns, or complaints he would put the time and effort in helping.

I have said this in the past on other boards. Factions thrive when members take the imitative if they do what they can to help out OOC. This means it is just not up to staff to help make NFUs feel welcome.

What about the other branch that would have None Force Users? Well find someone that can staff the spot that will give a honest effort to make NFUs welcome and do the hard work of keeping up staff duties of maintaining the political branch of the faction.

Still it is just not up to staff to make NFUs feel welcome. As a member you could very well help out with this. It should not matter what classification the character is. When they join say hello and take a interest in them. This can go a long way to make someone feel welcome.

As for Force users I think that is a good discussion to have. I think it would be very interesting if somehow we could have Jedi and none Jedi working to help a Galactic Allegiance. Do I think it would be easy? No I do not think it would be. For the record Brad's tag does says Jedi but he is falling fast to his emotions. If I were to classify him right now I would say he is a Dark Jedi because he has zero control of his emotions.

 

[Ventasia Terana]

NFUs aren't going anywhere. Period. Ayden won't let that happen, and we'll back him up every step of the way.

I think, the thing here isn't that we're resistant to change. I think we all realize there's things that have to change somewhat to keep us going. The one thing we all seem to be fearing is that this change went be something minor. It will change a lot about the faction. Period. Knowing all the issues Republic has just getting along with one another..that kind of drama. No one wants their faction to play home to that.

The FU thing..as said, could go really bad quickly. It wouldn't be too long for them to essentially make Jedi the FU group in the faction, if they could work together.

At the end of day we're all wondering the same thing: how much will we have to give up for this to work? Republic will, more or less remain the same with their ideals and such. What about us? I, for one, fear that once it's all said and done, I'll look at the faction and see nothing but the Republic faction with a different name.

So, yeah. How much do we, considering we're the smaller faction, have to give up to make this happen?

 

[Ayden Cater]

[member="Ventasia Terana"]

A valid fear, but one I hope I can mitigate some.

The military does not answer directly to the Senate or the High Councilor/Supreme Chancellor (Still not sold on the name.) It answers directly to the Lord Protector. This means that, in general, neither the Senate nor the Jedi can say what we can and cannot do. The full specifics on that are a bit more fine, but it ultimately means I might have to play politics more. The short of it is I get to play bodyguard between the military and the Senate.

One thing I wouldn't do (Much how I don't now) is micromanage, telling units what they could and could not do. If you were in the military and decided to go raid One Sith supply bases? Have at it. Rather hit some pirates? Bring me back some booze. I will not, do not, want to control every aspect of what people do with their stories. Might there be consequences to them? Maybe. But first I have to find out about it IC.

For the general members of OP (You guys), the change in operations will be minimal to little. Our armory is considerably larger, polished, and better maintained than the Republic's current arsenal. A lot of our hardware will be adopted by them.

At the end of the day, (unless you're career military), nothing changes for you. The folks with OmegaPyre will keep on with their own stick. Their major contractor will just have a larger checkbook to pay them out of.

So what are we giving up?

A name (The Republic will likewise have to do this)
Minor military changes [IC] (Some units might get shuffled around some to bolster and train Republic troops)
Some territory [OOC] (This is still a bit questionable on how much, if any, territory we'll lose. I haven't heard back from Tef yet.)

 

[Noah Corek]

[member="Ayden Cater"]
Personally what I'm concerned about most is territory that months of work went into, admittedly you've swayed me a bit with the other arguments, but until I hear just how much territory we'll lose, I'm on the fence. I'm sorry, [member="Aeron Kreelan"], [member="Ventasia Terana"] and [member="Knight"]

 

[Nameless Knight]

Jedi have proven they can work together with an effective leader at the helm or an effective councilor. As they will have the numbers of the force user group possibly. Some don't like the idea and will likely go rogue or silver. Some will be here and the Jedi Covenant what members are still around who left the republic. Yes they are around sometimes but they are just like each of the current force sects we have. Not predominant. Now they will be since the bulk of the Republic has always been jedi. I have been talking with Ayden and while still willing to go with it I am not convinced just yet.

I have worked in this faction for a little over a year or so and I worked in the Republic for the same amount of time. I built tech and ships for the republic and watched it get tossed aside and have nothing to replace it for the members. While I know Ayden wouldn't do that and he addressed those concerns we have the lesser We don't want the faction members here to be swept aside when and if the Republic side starts growing. People rp in star wars usually first to be jedi and then they learn about the other things in the galaxy.

Still open to having my mind changed but sitting firmly in the no for a merger. I don't want the problems and drama from the Republic in here.

 

[Noah Corek]

nvm

 

[Ayden Cater]

Well I talked with Tef. He estimated one side would lose about 2/3rds of its present territory.

Given that if OP was slated to lose that much territory everyone would balk, I have to imagine this'll be a deal breaker for the Republic.

So in preparation for that, while I've got folks paying attention.

What do you want to do?

 

[Nyos Val]

I'm very much against joining the Republic. It would do nothing but bring the Sith right into our territory. And it would be saving the republic from a losing war. Meaning they would rely entirely on our support to even bring them back to normal.

Given that most every experience with the Pubs I've had, aside from a handful have been spent asking my computer why, why would they do that. I don't like that the Jedi sit around talking but don't often act. The senators never agree because they always have to be right. And the military has no real leadership.

It's like buying a filet but the sides are the best part. It looks pretty and delicious but it's so over priced for what you really get out of it.

 

[Nameless Knight]

[member="Ayden Cater"] they are/were ready to throw away all of their territory. After sleeping on it and from looking over previous PM conversations with their leader... It still feels wrong. The conversations between us kept emphasizing how previous leaders made messes and were terrible and how they had to clean it all up. So now this can just be a scape goat of "I couldn't fix it from how big a mess everyone else left it" a way to pass it off. It is my trust in you that allows me to be open to change but I have been messaging everyone I can think of for both votes telling them the stakes and trying to get them involved. You won't steer us wrng, you won't try and endanger us. It is past experiences with inaction and general attitude that keep me from wanting this regardless of what is on paper or going to fully happen.

Still a no and I wouldn't want to lose everything we worked for.

 

[Aeron Kreelan]

I want the Faction storyline we talked about in the other thread.

The one HK soecifically made antagonist withering for.

If not that-- I want another faction storyarc like the Bando Gora that colored all of our threads.

I want after action report threads with the ic leadership like we used to have after every major invasion or galactic highlight -- like we used to do for Roche, for the mando sith war, for donyand, our internal investigation threads, for dark harvest ( til it got wiped), for dealing icly political ramifications.

Where is the thread dealing with what happened after coruscant? We suffererd heavy losses, but as a faction we didn't roleplay how that affected us. How things with ASA have affected us.

Why haven't we talked to Moross? They are south of us for almost a year and yet we still have had no ic discourse.

Where are we with lords of the fringe? What is going on with that war?

Where is the interaction between icly the leadership, exarchs, and the population itself? What IS our current government structure? Icly where has any change if any been roleplayed? Nothing has been updated in our faction page, in our forums-- everything is out of date.

What are we doing to promote recruitment? To promote people wanting to stay here in OP?

What is our plan of action? And more importantly, where is the follow through?

 

[Nameless Knight]

[member="Aeron Kreelan"] I think I am the only active Exarch and I have been there for each invasions, event and visible. With HK on LOA and Cira dead/gone (we never found out ICly I believe yet) I believe that makes me the second highest in terms of the Protectorate. I think

I am all for those threads and we had the thread after the invasion of Naboo

 

[Aeron Kreelan]

[member="Knight"]

Then let's do that then. After action of coruscant.

After action of Naboo -- regardless if we won, there was still quite a bit of damage.

I'm sure [member="Feena Mason"] would want to start rebuilding and getting to talk to the people and reinforce naboo in light of the invasion.

Let's figure out icly where the exarchs, councilors and praetors stand with the One Sith... with the LotF.... with Moross.