Thoughts on TFA Plot

[Seris Caine]

What's everyone's opinion of the plot of TFA?

Honestly, while I enjoyed the movie and thought it was very good, I still found it lacking from the perspective of a long time fan. To be honest, I think we here at Chaos could come up with a better story that doesn't lead to

Spoiler

the destruction of Star killer bases by a few well placed charges and the flying of some starfighters pilots, which is essentially what happens in RotJ.

So, how would you like to have seen the movie be different?

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

To be honest I liked it better than A New Hope. I get that Episode IV is important for historical reasons etc, but I like the modern aesthetic and effects.

So I'm putting it up as my 2nd or 3rd favourite Star Wars movie. A second viewing will help confirm the ranking.

So could it be better? Sure, there's no such thing as a perfect movie, especially in a franchise with such finicky and demanding fans. That he managed to make a film which the majority of fans have liked (to greater or lesser degrees) is a miracle really.

 

[Krux Mullarus]

Spoiler

I agree. I didn't even like Starkiller base. You'd think after two Death Stars on the Galactic Empire's part, they'd stop building expensive superweapons. Where'd they even get the funding and support to make it? Why do so many people still hate Jedi after the last one helped the Alliance destroy a weapon that blows up planets who don't ally to the Empire twice? It really is just a crappy disney plot, not to mention completely ripped from the original Star Wars.

Ask me, Starkiller Base shouldn't have been another superweapon. Just the HQ of the First Order would've made more sense. Shouldn't have been destroyed already, either, I think. At least Kylo Ren survived. They learned not to scrap such good antagonists in the first movie, thankfully. *Looks at Darth Maul*

Still, I only have very few complaints about the movie. It was still pretty great. I just hope the rest of the trilogy isn't going to be the same plot as the original trilogy.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

As a side note I went back to look at the reviews by critics and fans that Phantom Menace got.

Wow.

So yeah, whilst not perfect, this has done a minor miracle. Of course, it's been done now, Episode VIII can't rely on retreading Empire. So it's the next one where the chips will be down.

 

[OriginsoftheJedi]

I loved the movie really. No movie is perfect, but it was close enough to make me happy.
Now what would I have done differently? Well, keeping in mind that we haven't seen any of the rest of the trilogy, so I might end up being wrong on a few points, I really would have liked to have seen the Starkiller Base survive this movie, given how high it was built up (I mean come on, a planet that blows up planets using the power of an entire star? That's awesome!). It could have been a really big plot point to use later on (maybe ep 8 or 9?). How cool could it have been for this entire planet sized base to just vanish into thin air for a year or two maybe, being improved on, the suddenly, WHAM! An important planet gets blown up by something we thought was gone. Still, I think JJ handled pretty much everything else very well.
My main hope for ep VIII is that they'll play it a little less safe. Take some more chances. Parallels are ok, but not so many that they're playing it safe.
[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

 

[Seris Caine]

[member="Knight Mullarus"]
I'm honestly worried it will be. In the sense of Kylo turning on Snoke at some point.

Spoiler

I also think it's going to follow the good wins, bad wins, good wins line.

Though I liked starkiller base and it's weapon. Much more unique than the death stars. As for money, they still had lots of funding after the fall. Read Aftermath to see.

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]
I agree it was pretty incredible that he didn't make a giant pile of distressing crap.

Spoiler

But I detest the rehash greatly. It feels cheap and repetitive and still makes the bad guys look far too inept against a bunch of starfighters.

 

[Kixi Rajki]

Great movie but the plot, it's a remake of A New Hope. The battle at the start, the jakku desert/tattooine desert. Rey gets off jakku in the falcon/Luke does the same in the falcon. Kylo is the bad arse dude, but not the leader in which we see little of. The leader Snoke who looks like Voldermort. Lol. In ANH Vader is the bad arse but not the leader and we see none of Palpatine in ANH but we know Vader is serving someone higher. Then we have Rey getting captured and rescued. So does leia in ANH who also gets rescued. The destruction of Hosnian Prime by a super weapon, Star Killer Base. The destruction of Alderaan by the Death Star. And then the final minute desperate miraculous victory by a group of x-wing pilots blowing up star killer base before it blows up the resistance base. Yep the final last minute miraculous victory by a group of rebels who blow up the Death Star before it blew up the Rebel base on Yavin moon. These are just some of the similarities off the top of my head. There are others. So the plot of TFA = ANH reborn.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

There are, however, many differences. Yes, it's very closely based on ANH, but it's not the same movie.

 

[Jsc]

So, how would you like to have seen the movie be different?

• Kylo be named, Kylo.
• Starkiller base have been a Hyperspace Velocity Gun. (Like in the book drafts)
• Kept the Starkiller Base Snow Chase scene in the movie.
• Chewie vs Phasma uber battle.
• Finn gets Han's blaster.
• Some explanation about Poe's escape from TIE.
• A mention of the Knights of Ren having beat Luke Skywalker in an 8 v 1 duel outside his burning school.

 

[Jen]

Very positively surprised. Have seen it twice (will watch it a third time soon) and I'm currently reading the novel and figuring out what scenes were cut. Interesting read and interesting story elements overall. I think JJ and the writers wanted to play it very safely to carefully resurrect the franchise. Some things could have been done better, but I'm not one for nitpicking.

EDIT:
[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

• Kylo be named, Kylo.
• Starkiller base have been a Hyperspace Velocity Gun. (Like in the book drafts)
• Kept the Starkiller Base Snow Chase scene in the movie.
• Chewie vs Phasma uber battle.
• Finn gets Han's blaster.
• Some explanation about Poe's escape from TIE.
• A mention of the Knights of Ren having beat Luke Skywalker in an 8 v 1 duel outside his burning school.

To give some possible explanations to your questions:

• Not that this changes your feelings regarding this. But Ren is possibly a name all Knights of Ren carries. Not confirmed. Just a thought.
• The Starkiller Base works by ripping a hole in what is described in the novel as a semi-hyperspace. The reason one can see it flow through the galaxy is that it the energy that flies through "semi-hyperspace" or whatever it was called (don't got the book on me atm) and energizes real-space.
• N/A
• Hopefully we will see more of Phasma in the next films.
• N/A
• In the Novel we get a scene were Poe is found by an alien scavenger of Jakku. Eventually Poe and the alien travels to the aliens' home after Poe using his flying skills to handle some baddies.
• N/A
  
  Again. Not trying to discredit what you feel. Just felt like there was some explanations that could probably make you enjoy the movie more.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Jen"]

Tis cool.

 

[Kixi Rajki]

I've watched it 3 times altready. I've got the novel as an audio book. Will have to listen to it next and soon to see what these cut out bits were. I assume to audio book is the same as the normal reading book? Otherwise I'll just have to get the normal ePub TFA book too.

 

[Ayden Quell]

For those saying TFA is a rehash of ANH, here's food for thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces

Since publication of The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Campbell's theory has been consciously applied by a wide variety of modern writers and artists. The best known is perhaps George Lucas, who has acknowledged Campbell's influence on the Star Wars films.[1]

George Lucas' deliberate use of Campbell's theory of the monomyth in the making of the Star Wars movies is well documented. On the DVD release of the famous colloquy between Campbell and Bill Moyers, filmed at Lucas' Skywalker Ranch and broadcast in 1988 on PBS as The Power of Myth, Campbell and Moyers discussed Lucas's use of The Hero with a Thousand Faces in making his films.[12] Lucas himself discussed how Campbell's work affected his approach to storytelling and film-making.[13]

Seems like Abrams/Disney and co. might have been trying to recapture what influenced Lucas to write and approach Star Wars in the first place. In fact, an article from 2013 with Abrams has him stating just that.

“I don’t know how many times in developing stories I have referenced the archetypes of Star Wars,” Abrams says. “As a fan of Joseph Campbell and the use of myth in storytelling, you could argue that it is a classic paradigm but it is the common language among all of us because we are all so familiar with the Star Wars canon. It’s hard to remember breaking a story for an episode of a show, whether it was Lost, Alias or even Felicity and not feel like there was some way to reference the love triangle you felt in Episode IV or the struggle of good and evil that you have seen in all six of the films.”

Which comes from this article.

 

[Komo]

Read this and thought it was interesting, so thought I'd share it here.

37 things cut from The Force Awakens

 

[Seris Caine]

Zuvio was in the vision that Rey saw, I think.

 

[Kixi Rajki]

Read this and thought it was interesting, so thought I'd share it here.

37 things cut from The Force Awakens

Interesting. Kira would've been a great name. First thing that popped to mind was Kira Carsen from SWTOR. And a Resistance super weapon. They should've gone with it. Would've been something different instead of the usual bad guys having such weapons.

 

[Seris Caine]

Resistance having such a ship doesn't seem plot feasible, despite being cool. They had some funding from the Republic, but the best vehicle they could put on the battlefield was an x-wing so they clearly could not produce a superweapon. The FO had a lot more money to work with.

 

[Kixi Rajki]

Then why not make the Republic have such a ship. Doesn't mean just cos they are supposed to be the good guys that they can't have such weapons. The lack of such weapons is why the Republic eventually always gets their arses handed to them. In the now Legends EU, the Yuuzhan Vong for most of that war gave the New Rupublic a hiding. Now if the Imps were still around with their Galactic Empire, a couple of Death Stars would've wiped out the Vong. All of them.

 

[Kyber Salurra]

I agree. I didn't even like Starkiller base. You'd think after two Death Stars on the Galactic Empire's part, they'd stop building expensive superweapons. Where'd they even get the funding and support to make it? Why do so many people still hate Jedi after the last one helped the Alliance destroy a weapon that blows up planets who don't ally to the Empire twice? It really is just a crappy disney plot, not to mention completely ripped from the original Star Wars. Ask me, Starkiller Base shouldn't have been another superweapon. Just the HQ of the First Order would've made more sense. Shouldn't have been destroyed already, either, I think. At least Kylo Ren survived. They learned not to scrap such good antagonists in the first movie, thankfully. *Looks at Darth Maul* Still, I only have very few complaints about the movie. It was still pretty great. I just hope the rest of the trilogy isn't going to be the same plot as the original trilogy.

I dunno what you guys are talkin' 'bout, I found the movie perfectly fine. For those complaining about the "death star 2.0" rehash and that "it's the same as A New Hope", lemme drop some movie knowledge on yah.

See, symbolism and overarching themes is a big part of movie sagas, and a huge part of star wars (they literally named the good and bad sides the lightside and the darkside). The reason they basically made a death star that was just bigger and better was because it's the theme that evil never learns their lesson -hence why they're evil- especially the Knights of Ren who are just a buncha sith who worship vader and are trying to surpass him. Starkiller Base makes perfect sense for the plot of the movie and I'm glad they did it.

Now let's dive deeper into this so-called "theme" I speak of. Most people forget that Star Wars is not just some action move, it's a Space Opera. This means that the movie is going to almost definitely have a chivalric romance, a melodramatic plot, and continuously shown themes (and hopefully a "i am your father!" level plot twist). The Force Awakens was the start of the third trilogy in the saga, meaning that it's going to follow the same formula as the start of the original trilogy. Deviating too much would ruin the themes it's trying to portray (that's why episodes I-III sucked, btw). Both Luke and Rey are found on desolate worlds that reinforce their humble beginnings and then are forced into a whole galaxy at war as a major player. Hmm... I'm sensing an underdog theme here? Hero's can be found in the most unlikely of places? People can become anything they set their mind to and break their chains? The Hero with a Thousand Faces? :3

Anywho~ let's move onto the way the Rebel's destroyed Starkiller base. Again, this reinforces evil's hubris and their repetitive mentality. "well i'm better than that other guy so my bigger and better thing won't fail" are the words going through every villain's heads. Theme shown: “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.” . . . Ohohohoho, what's this? The Empire's main focus is to eradicate the Jedi from the history books? To control the minds of the populace and control history? *gasp* Magical isn't it? That's why the Rebels literally came in and did the same exact thing as before- butohwait! Was there no ground game as well? Evil's getting smarter! X-Wings couldn't take it out by themselves, so our hero's had to go in and save the day with some explosives. Doing this sets up the stage for our next (and personally my favorite) theme...

Progress! The Empire and the sith repeat the same thing over, and over, and over, and that is why they fail. Men too afraid to lose their power they hold onto it and attempt to control everything as long as possible.This can not be. If the old generation stays how can you make way for the new? The good guys have to die. They have to or else they'll get in the way of the new guys. This symbolism is so applicable to our world. The younger generations have to step up to the plate- and most of the time they're not ready to do so, but with the teachings of our elders and passion in our hearts we overcome. That's why we notice all the teachers die before the training can be finished. Obi-wan, Yoda, Han Solo, everyone has their time and it's usually cut short, but the younger generation has to keep going. Some might argue, "well, uh, what about force ghosts?" well, I can explain that, too. Force ghosts are the visual and symbolic representation of not forgetting the past but still moving on with the future. We keep our elder's teachings in our hearts but we move on into the world. Why do you think the Force Ghosts never pop-up to go "WATCH OUT BEHIND YOU!!"? It's because they're just general guides of the soul. Oh wait. Hold on guys. Have you picked up on it yet? Let's see here. Why doesn't the darkside have force ghosts in the movies, hmm? *GASP* Is it because evil doesn't learn from their past and just keep trying the same thing bigger and better with hubris in their hearts?!?!?! . . .Yes. The answer is yes.

Anyway, I hope this quick movie guide on theming and symbolism is helpful to anyone doubting the legend that is episode VII, and hopefully I blew a few minds as well. Chilled Irishman out.

*drops mic*

EDIT: The reason Ben Solo is named Kylo Ren is two-fold: A. because he's a sith he has to have a different name. That's just a must. It's not Darth Palpatine and Darth Skywalker is it? B. He's not just any normal sith, he's a knight of Ren. This means that he doesn't stick with the fancy lord and is given the surname of Ren instead.

 

[Rookie]

I thought it was a very shrewd move on both Disney (who I have to assume maintained a pretty high level of creative control over their new cash cow IP) and Abrams parts. Sticking so close in tone and story elements to AHN(+a little ESB) was probably the most important move in the longevity of this franchise. The universal hate that has been shoveled on the prequels for the last decade and a half probably told Disney that another Episode I wouldn't fly with the fans*.

I fully expect to see more ingenuity in VIII. I can't decide how I feel about Rian Johnson. Looper was just awful but 'Fly' was one of my favorite Breaking Bad episodes so who knows.

*That being said, I'm not naive enough to think that the fans wouldn't throw money at VIII even if VII was worse than Phantom Menace and the Ewok cartoon put together.