Two proposals on corporation tiers

[Ashin Varanin]

So, I've got a couple minor proposals for the community. I've played a serious role in building several tier 5 and 6 corporations. I'm tackling tier ascension again, and with a pretty modest amount of work I've taken iBorg Prosthetic Augments from tier 1 to tier 3 in two weeks flat. And looking back on that and on the other corps I've built or helped build -- Silk Holdings, Akure Executive Interstellar, Iron Crown, etc. -- I've got two proposals for refining our tier advancement protocols. If these seem elitist to you, do note that I own/run/play a major role in no corporation larger than tier 3. This is coming from someone who's trying to lengthen the road ahead and have it mean more.

• Make it a bit harder. Specifically, increase the number of contracts, products, and miscellaneous threads for each tier. A very modest increase -- one more product, contract, and misc thread per tier -- would make tier advancement more realistic in pace and effort. (Two more products, contracts, and misc threads per tier would also be good.) If increased load on the factory judges is a thing, knock products off that list and just boost contracts and misc threads. I just hit tier 3 in two weeks. I've seen people hit tier 5-6 in a handful of months with unimpressive work, then run around bragging that they own the galaxy and have unlimited personal funds all of a sudden. Let's have less of that and more of a reward for consistency. I think, as a community, we're ready for that.
• Add a tier 7. There's a world of difference between 'yeah, I'm tier 6 now, I made some cool stuff and I've got a couple factions buying from me' and a monster like ATC. Last I checked, ATC's got like forty threads since getting tier 6, and that's not hyperbole. That's consistent work, achievable by anyone. Let's add a tier 7 because tier 7 would be awesome.

Just for curiosity's sake, I've tacked on a poll about these two options.

 

[Darth Metus]

[member="Adalric Vastor"]

Just for the sake of imagination, what would a Tier 7 look like?

 

[Boethiah]

I voted no but not because I don't agree with your bulletins. Mainly because I don't see a reason right now... Corporate roleplay is a small niche so if anything I'd like to see more added but not necessarily to increase the challenge of achieving new tiers or adding another one.

Otherwise I agree that at the very least there needs to be some changes to make corporations more meaningful. What those changes should be? I'm not sure, honestly, but I'm hoping that perhaps this thread could garner some good ideas because I'd love to see more competition outside of factions.

Good opening post, by-the-way.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Dagora-Kel"]

Something like the status that Santhe/Sienar, KDY, etc. held in canon. Ubiquitous. Go anywhere in the galaxy, you see at least one of their products.

 

[Jsc]

As long as a corporation's private military/(security) remains smaller than a Major Faction's navy? Then yeah. I'd say go for it. Tier 7,8,9, and 10 baby!

 

[Lief]

 

[Ashin Varanin]

As long as a corporation's private military/(security) remains smaller than a Major Faction's navy? Then yeah. I'd say go for it. Tier 7,8,9, and 10 baby!

I respect where you're coming from -- groups of writers shouldn't be cowed by single oldtimers -- but me, I wouldn't worry too much about that in a practical sense, for two reasons:

• A major faction's navy has no numerical limit; it's as big as it needs to be for story X, Y, and Z. A corporation's is governed by a strict and pretty realistic formula for ship size and fleet size.
• The number of times I've seen full-strength corporate fleets deployed against major factions can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and that's being generous.

 

[Darth Kentarch]

If we make it harder by lets say, making companies only advance past tier 4 by signing only with major factions. And here's the kicker: All major factions leader's need to come forward and specifically state who they do or don't have a contract with. Cause I do think we need some kind of activity check on contracts to ensure tier growth.

As for Tier 7. No I don't see the point as my impression was a Tier 6 was a company that was everywhere in the galaxy and a galactic powerhouse, so what happens a Tier 7? Does my character have to watch a holo-commercial for their products every time he goes out in public to grab something to eat and use the can? I just don't get it.

 

[Yvette Dusong]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]

Supply Lines and Traveling Nodes. If you want to get certain Companies to become more important all around, then go more in-depth on the previously mentioned and let them have an effect on Invasions / PVP. Suddenly said niche is not a niche anymore as you will get people clamoring to secure their own trade routes and logistics while numerous non-affiliated corporations rise up in an attempt to outbid each other over control of some factions supply lines / certain parts of some factions supply lines since they are unable or unwilling to deal with them themselves.

You're not going to get anything to become more meaningful unless there is actually SOMETHING at stake as a reward. The reason Invasions and Dominions work so much is because you can get something out of them.

 

[Onrai]

It's already hard enough for people to get company promotions and hit Tier 6 with the monopolies many people have. Tier 7 will become a practically unachievable goal that maybe one or two people will have - something to be lauded over others for. I vote no, on both accounts. It's simply unnecessary to make things more complex company-wise considering the current rules.

 

[Darth Ayra]

If we make harder by lets say, making companies only advance past tier 4 by signing only with major factions. And here's the kicker: All major factions leader's need to come forward and specifically state who they do or don't have a contract with. Cause I do think we need some kind of activity check on contracts to ensure tier growth.

I agree with this comment completely. At tier 4, you're wanting to get into the big leagues. I perceive anyone under tier 3 a company that only operates on one world, whereas a company at tier 4 and beyond has begun expansion and then began operating on worlds beyond the first one they started with.

Chandrila DataTech was the first ever corporation I began on this board and I admit that I did very little work with it. I began it at tier 2, did the necessary threads to reach tier 3 and left it. This was partly due to the fact that around August 2014 I lost interest in this site and my activity was sporadic at best. I'd only say I've been active like I was prior to August 2014 as of the middle of this month. But despite the little work I put in, I recently liquidated my assets for a cool 32 million, plus some added incentives.

I would also propose that a member of staff- an RPJ, factory judge or admin- be assigned to monitoring corporations with a much stricter eye. I've seen some corps get tier advancement with some shocking threads, where they only advanced because they fulfilled the criteria of threads. Quality is always better than quantity.

 

[Darth Ayra]

It's already hard enough for people to get company promotions and hit Tier 6 with the monopolies many people have. Tier 7 will become a practically unachievable goal that maybe one or two people will have - something to be lauded over others for. I vote no, on both accounts. It's simply unnecessary to make things more complex company-wise considering the current rules.

The monopolies in place can be broken and any tier is achievable. Whilst certain cliques exist on this website, they doesn't necessarily have a stranglehold on corps/business like you think they do.

 

[Laira Darkhold]

I too have only had ArmaTech for a month and am at Tier 3, but it does seem to get significantly harder past that, (I put 100+ posts into my Big Project for Tier 4 already) and, yeah it pretty much becomes stagnant after Tier V from my notice. The difference between Tier V and VI is getting to own star destroyers for your personal navy really from what I have seen. I didn't start a company to play the CEO role, I did it because I wanted a fancy workshop to push custom gear through, then I had another Idea and I worked to get to it. I doubt I will continue past IV(4) in the foreseeable future.

To second that thought, adding a tier would completely redefine all the lesser tiers. Czerka, the Trade Federation, and at their height was galaxy spanning, owning whole planets, and possessing a massive fleet of starships capable of subjugating planets on their own without government backing, and that is supposed to be a Tier 6 at the moment. So what would Tier 7 be? I say if you want to be bigger become a Faction (Minor or Major) and lay claim to whole planets, tell posers to back off your turf, and maybe get into corporate wars with each other, or minor factions, because you are the galaxy spanning, impossible to get rid off (Czerka was around for millennia) entity, not some Minor Faction, heck even some Major Galactic governments didn't last as long as them.

So in short, if you as a business man want to go further, become a faction (Like ATC did) but start laying claim to stuff, throwing your weight around a little. No I don't think there needs to be a Tier 7, but yes I do think it needs to be harder to advance from tier to tier. Maybe not so much contracts (I haven't figured out how those work yet or whether I can sign multiple contracts with the same Major Faction) but products, misc threads, and maybe have Tier 5 and 6 have to own at least one planet in order to meet production requirements (KDY needed a entire orbital ring and still had to outsource some).

 

[Alric Kuhn]

 

[Darth Kentarch]

The key problem I've always had is that currently you can sign with two more major factions or (And that a big OR) Tier V plus companies, the second option is the problem. Why? Because once two people have both gotten their Tier V+ companies, other people can simply sign contracts with those companies instead of major factions. In essence you only need a friend or two who owns a Tier V plus company to get your own. Instead the consent of Major Faction. And thus as long as a handful of Tier V companies exist you can mill out larger tier companies despite the lack of major faction commitment.

 

[Jsc]

I respect where you're coming from -- groups of writers shouldn't be cowed by single oldtimers -- but me, I wouldn't worry too much about that in a practical sense, for two reasons:

Yeah. You're probably right. I just know writer's like to 'own' or 'run' whole planets. Sometimes famous planet's even come to represent a corporate or guild powerhouse just by themselves. Corellia, Kuat, Mon Calamari, Nal Hutta, etc. But yeah. As long as corporations can't compete on the Map for territory without going Major? It's all gravy to me.

"We just conquered Planet X. Hurrah!"

"Nah man. Player Y owns that planet. They control everything about it through economics. They're a Tier 800 Thieves Guild."

"Umm. Okay. Then... Assassinations for everybody! Eminent Domain for all their brothels!"

"Now you're thinking like a Faction Admin sir! That's the political savvy we need more of around here!"

"Tefka be praised. Let the razzing commence!"

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

Tier 7 Corp = Illuminati

 

[Boethiah]

You're not going to get anything to become more meaningful unless there is actually SOMETHING at stake as a reward.

I definitely agree. There does need to be something at stake but I don't think many people are going to be interested in stressing out over managing their company. If there are stakes I believe they should be entirely optional.

Something I do think is an issue is that there's really not much weight held by a company outside of the respectful boundaries of roleplay. If I'm not roleplaying with the CEO of a company--at all--then they almost don't even exist because (unless in rare cases) nothing they do will ever have any weight on my roleplay. Is that an issue? Sure, because I believe one of the strongest aspects of roleplay is how that which you do not control might place obstacles in your story. The flip side is that you also shouldn't force consequences where consent isn't given.

So whilst I think your ideas could work, I don't think they're going to be the right fit for the culture of this community. Of course I could be wrong.

 

[Captain Larraq]

• Add a tier 7. There's a world of difference between 'yeah, I'm tier 6 now, I made some cool stuff and I've got a couple factions buying from me' and a monster like ATC. Last I checked, ATC's got like forty threads since getting tier 6, and that's not hyperbole. That's consistent work, achievable by anyone. Let's add a tier 7 because tier 7 would be awesome.

Just for curiosity's sake, I've tacked on a poll about these two options.

So, the only argument you have for the inclusion of a Tier 7 is "Let's make ATC better than any other company."

To be honest, I haven't felt the need to expand my company beyond tier 5. I make everything I feel the need to make, I buy everything I feel the need to buy, and I've never had "You need to be Tier 6" interfere with my roleplaying or product development. And while a "Tier 7" might be interesting from a Codex perspective... all it really adds up to is E-peen bragging rights. Right now, when I think of a Tier 7 company, I think of the Corporate Sector Authority or TION. Not ATC. Which means that, to me at least, "Tier 7 status" is more of an encroachment on the territory of "What is and is not a Faction" than a necessary modification to the Factory.

So, I've got a couple minor proposals for the community. I've played a serious role in building several tier 5 and 6 corporations. I'm tackling tier ascension again, and with a pretty modest amount of work I've taken iBorg Prosthetic Augments from tier 1 to tier 3 in two weeks flat. And looking back on that and on the other corps I've built or helped build -- Silk Holdings, Akure Executive Interstellar, Iron Crown, etc. -- I've got two proposals for refining our tier advancement protocols. If these seem elitist to you, do note that I own/run/play a major role in no corporation larger than tier 3. This is coming from someone who's trying to lengthen the road ahead and have it mean more.

• Make it a bit harder. Specifically, increase the number of contracts, products, and miscellaneous threads for each tier. A very modest increase -- one more product, contract, and misc thread per tier -- would make tier advancement more realistic in pace and effort. (Two more products, contracts, and misc threads per tier would also be good.) If increased load on the factory judges is a thing, knock products off that list and just boost contracts and misc threads. I just hit tier 3 in two weeks. I've seen people hit tier 5-6 in a handful of months with unimpressive work, then run around bragging that they own the galaxy and have unlimited personal funds all of a sudden. Let's have less of that and more of a reward for consistency. I think, as a community, we're ready for that.

Honestly, I had around 20-30 submissions on the board before I was able to advance to Tier 4... so I don't really see an issue with the current system or a reason why it needs to be changed. Personally, it took forever for me to be able to advance in Tier because the judges at the time were evasive when asked to clarify what did and did not quantify as a "major project." So if you're having trouble with people rushing to advance in Tier, I'm guessing that people have either figured out how to do "Major Projects" and the creation of subs or doing of dev threads is irreverent, or that some people just see their company/character as being a bigshot and don't want to waste time as anything less than one of the highest tiers.

 

[Captain Larraq]

The key problem I've always had is that currently you can sign with two more major factions or (And that a big OR) Tier V plus companies, the second option is the problem. Why? Because once two people have both gotten their Tier V+ companies, other people can simply sign contracts with those companies instead of major factions. In essence you only need a friend or two who owns a Tier V plus company to get your own. Instead the consent of Major Faction. And thus as long as a handful of Tier V companies exist you can mill out larger tier companies despite the lack of major faction commitment.

I've seen companies with more effort and development put into them than a pair of Major Factions. The above is actually a good thing because it creates a wider pool of people to do threads with to help advance your company. A few months back, there were only a handful of Major Factions and of them, most of the faction leaders/admins had already formed one form of partnership or another with a major supplier of factory toys. Getting them to get off their butts and dragged into a contract thread was a -major- pain in the butt and created a massive chokepoint for the progression of a company. Not because the owner of the company wasn't willing to put effort into advancing their company, but because they couldn't get anyone to get up and play with them.