Unlearn What You Have Learned (group training, open to Jedi or anyone who'd reasonably be around)

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Aaralyn Rekali"]

"And that's one valid perspective. History offers us another one. We have some sources, some records from those times -- the Great Holocron, for example. And most of the sources are clear about absolute power's effects on Lord Hoth, the spiritual cost of being virtually unquestioned and alone at the top. There's no question he got results, but Hoth was, or became, what you might call a dick. That's the example he set. It's very possible that he would have experienced, or caused, bigger problems if he had survived the Seventh Battle of Ruusan.

"You're right that personal motives and desires can be twisted, or can take up too much of a place in our lives and our work. And when we're in positions of power, there are fewer barriers to those desires. It feels...natural to express them, work toward them. I'm not immune to that -- my personal desire was to keep Lord Rade from teaching, and to use him as an object lesson on pride. It seems I predicted him correctly, but I had to make a judgment call even though I wasn't sure how much my judgment was affected by my personal feelings and opinions, and as the teacher and host I could make all that happen by not acknowledging that I knew he wanted to speak, among other things. So in the end, if I erred, it wasn't my personal feelings that tipped me over the edge of decision, it was my estimation that I was in the right, and that the greater good for this class was worth irritating him. When the greater good gets invoked, sincerely or not, run. As Luke Skywalker once said, there may be times when the ends justify the means, but too many of those times and you'll find you've constructed a whole philosophy of evil. Power might get you through your personal desires and motives, sure, but in the end I find that most dedicated, good-hearted individuals who let themselves get corrupted run into problems when they start thinking they're the ones with the will and the strength to make the hard choices for the greater good. There are all sorts of modern examples -- Master Ashin Varanin, who went undercover with the Sith after being locked away from the Dark Side, undermined and redirected the Sith Empire, but aided and abetted the deaths of billions. Grandmaster Selena Halcyon, who launched, basically without provocation, the largest war of annihilation in centuries -- and saw it through to the end, which takes a certain kind of grim, deliberate, bloody-minded inurement to destruction. Master Ember Rekali, who literally tore down the Citadel on Dromund Kaas and killed everyone inside. Grandmaster Je'gan Olra'en, Master Caleb Torran and Master Ti'Cira Hawk, who once launched a crusade against the Sith -- a crusade that saw millions of civilian casualties. Master Matsu Ike, who used the Force to personally butcher thousands of prisoners of the Sith on Metalorn, because they'd been drugged into senseless violence, and who's been implicated in sinking half of Ahto City on Manaan, civilians and all, in an attempt to destroy the Sith invasion force. I'm not aiming for controversy so much as I'm saying that this is a principle with an awful lot of modern examples, and that means it's something we all need to pay attention to when we're watching ourselves. All of that, all of it, was 'for the greater good,' and done calmly and with careful thought. Does that make those actions better...or worse?"

He smiled faintly. "And on a relevant note, don't ever let them make you a Master. At least not until you understand the balance, the tradeoff, between power and insight."

 

[Zion Mirtis]

After getting side swept by so many about her opinion on the matter of the last question Sophie was a little more hesitant to answer this time. She had, in fact, shuffled her way back from the rest of the group when they'd basically said, at least to her, that her idea was ludicrious. And to think she actually knew what she was talking about. Or at least what she knew that others might've known what she meant. It didn't matter. When [member="Shule Windspeaker"] had asked the next greater question she had her opinion but had kept it to herself.

She felt that it was almost the same as what she'd said before, that using the force for the right means was where things mattered. Those who used the dark side for evil, like the Sith, were obviously self-obsessed and the like. But then there were those like the dark jedi, who turned from the path and yet were not fully devoted to power and all. Some of them had become something of underground heroes and the like throughout history. In fact there were some Jedi who imployed dark side techniques in the gravest of circumstances when needed; both with the force and with thier fighting skills. Still Sophie, at this point, felt it wouldn't matter to speak.

[member="Aaralyn Rekali"] Ryan Korrhttp://starwarsrp.net/user/4220-ryan-korr/ | Spark Finn | Qun Vell | Adele Adonai | Vrook Cho Leem

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Sophie Gustav"]

"Padawan Gustav...your thoughts?"

 

[Zion Mirtis]

[member="Shule Windspeaker"]

When Master Windspeaker addressed her she perked up. She looked a little nervous when his attention came to her, now that she was back in the spotlight again. She looked around, fidgiting with her ponytail, while trying to think of what to say. Sure she had the words in her head now she had to get them out of her mouth.

"I, uh....think that once people use it for their own gain, that's when the force user in question is more twoards being a Sith than Jedi. The point of being a Jedi is that they're keepers of the peace. Everyone's peace. Not just thier own. When they think they're right by enforcing some unfair law, than that's where thing's start to go astray. Besides, Jedi and polotics really shouldn't mix. I think the lines start to blur at that point."

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Sophie Gustav"]

Shule nodded. "So where's the balance? On the one hand, not all laws are fair, so enforcing them may force us to commit injustice. On the other hand, taking the law into our own hands, doing what's necessary to change laws, has its own set of problems. I'm not sure there's an answer."

 

[Spark Finn]

Gray-blue eyes widened slightly when the copper-haired knight spoke to her. Ghost? Ghost. Was he serious? Oh. Ohhhhh. This was probably just some hazing thing. She forced a wobbly smile. "Do-heeyupn't be heeyup ridiculous. Ghosts-heeyup are-heeyupn't re-heeyup-al.

The slicer went to 'cough' in her shoulder, using that opportunity to glance over her shoulder just in case.

In that moment when she thought she was being the sliest and slickest thing since the latest i-Comm release, she didn't see anything but she did feel something. A deep calm suddenly enveloped her, even more so than the alcoholic-juice buzzing her system. The sensation to hiccup disappeared.

Whoa.

She refused to make eye contact with the red-head.

"But Master," oh datacodes, the little introvert was gonna need some serious alone time after this class to recharge. "What happened to all those people in your example? What if those rampaging prisoners," she paused, hoping she got the example right. There were a lot thrown out. "What if they were going to kill an entire city's worth of other innocents unless they were stopped? Talking about this kind of stuff in a classroom setting is fine, but how are we supposed to judge what the right thing is to do or what the will of the force is in the middle of a battle - in the middle of a war? What if we don't have all the answers and we have to make a decision? Like with the prisoners, what if there was a peaceful way to stop them, maybe a cure. But you didn't now about it and they're about to set off bombs all over the city and you have a small window of opportunity to stop them."

Fingers edged up beneath the black rims of her glasses to rub at her temples. "And what about the sith? Are jedi - are we, supposed to always be on the defense instead of offense? If we take the offense, like those examples you gave, innocents died. But innocents die when sith strike first anyway. Is it more 'right' to take the hit doing damage control or take the hit during a preemptive strike?"

And suddenly, being a jedi sounded like it would always be a lose-lose situation.

And what the kriff was she talking about? She was so not ready, maybe never? to make those kind of decisions. Could she live with herself? Maybe there were open jedi positions as head librarian. Eyes flickered briefly on Qun. Or maybe some jedi went into the brewery business.

@Shule Windspeaker @Sophie Gustav @Khaleel Malvern @Vrook Cho Leem @Ryan Korr @Graxin Rade @Qun Vell @Adele Adonai [member="Aaralyn Rekali"]

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Spark Finn"]

"I was wondering who'd be the first to come to those conclusions. You're probably right, of course. There is such a thing as an impossible choice, and you'll be asked to make them. That will definitely happen. All you can do is make sure you're as in tune with the Force and your best qualities as possible. You need to make sure you've made habits of self-examination, compassion, and a sense of proportion. Jedi training is about trying to make yourself into the kind of person who can maximize their chances of making the best possible decision, even if it means deciding not to interfere or act at all. After all, who are we to interfere?"

 

[The End Narrator]

[SIZE=12pt]Aaralyn listened intently as [member="Shule Windspeaker"], his examples were –atleast in her opinion- on different ends of the spectrum. She shifted uneasy in her position at the mention of Ember’s task at Dromund Kaas and despite her best efforts she couldn’t help but blurt out. “Each of those Jedi had their own point which caused them to act, their own perhaps…clouded perception.” [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]She gently pushed off the wall and made a gesture towards Shule. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“I mean, Ember Rekali had his moments but one cannot simply compare his actions or the actions of other Masters mentioned to that of Matsu Ike or even Selena Halcyon.”[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]She lowered her hands and stepped forward.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“To start a war, without any provocation for one’s own desire, is to allow darkness to essentially consume your goal.”[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]She obviously was referring to the war that Selena Halcyon had started. “To slaughter thousands if not hundreds of thousands just to get the upper hand on an invading Army and even risk the lives of your fellow Jedi, is again a notion of dark intent.” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Of course, she didn’t know much about the supposed grand crusade and war that Selena Halcyon had started, nothing beyond holovids and text. She did know about the actions of Matsu Ike and the resulting Council meeting after. She saw the expression of complete disregard written on the former Master’s face, the lack of sincerity nor care for what she had done. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]She shrugged slightly at his last statement. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“We have to live with the burden, the consequences and the results of our actions – regardless of our intentions.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]A single finger would come to rise as she finished. “Grandmaster Skywalker once told us - That many of the things we find to be truth, depend on our own point of view.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt][member="Spark Finn"] | [/SIZE][member="Sophie Gustav"] | [member="Khaleel Malvern"] | [member="Vrook Cho Leem"] | [member="Ryan Korr"] | [member="Qun Vell"] | [member="Adele Adonai"]

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Aaralyn Rekali"]

"And it's natural to defend your father," said Shule with a nod. "But some actions may be indefensible. Did you know the Citadel had an employee daycare? How many civilians, contractors, slaves died on the Death Stars? You're right that many things depend on perspective. If there's one lesson I'm hoping to impart today, it's that any Jedi who aspires to adulthood needs to be able to see things from other perspectives -- to be able to question and investigate everything from every side, without doubting the fundamentals."

 

[Spark Finn]

[member="Shule Windspeaker"]

An impossible choice. That will definitely happen.

The slicer gulped, her pale face turning a shade paler.

"I don't know," she said quietly and adjusted the askew glasses on her face. "Who are we to interfere? Is it because we were born with the ability to use the force more than others? Is it because someone has to stick up to those other guys - the sith, who use those same abilities to hurt others? I guess to make the choice to interfere or walk away would take the same amount of courage and self-examination. But when we do mess up, when we make the wrong choice. How do we handle it? How do you handle it, Master?"

She wondered how all those handled it in his example. The one who killed those prisoners. The one who attacked the sith first. Did they think they made the wrong or right choice? Was there regret?

 

[Not Ordo]

[member="Shule Windspeaker"]

Kalizka had been listening for some time now. His old gray eyes closed so he could focus more on the words said than who said them, a trait that came with age perhaps. They had touched on a question he had asked many times, when do we stop watching and step in?

"How do you deal with stubbing your toe?" Kalizka said stepping out of the background, "you bite your lip, hop about and hope you don't do it again."

Was he being facetious? Perhaps, but in the end what could anyone do after the fact but do better next time?

[member="Spark Finn"]

 

[Ashin Varanin]

"Can't ask for a better answer than that."

 

[Gilamar Skirata]

She had to admit, when she had received the holo-mail about a lecture that her Master had wanted her to attend she thought it strange, or rather she felt it unnecessary. She had never been the scholarly type when it came to being a Jedi, and she thought of herself exactly as Master Shule had described earlier; A person who wanted to master the Force for the sake of wielding often very cool powers.

She was a fighter, and a scrappy one at that.

Had this Master's lecture and her fellow Padawans' comments profoundly changed her view on the Force or even life itself, probably not. What it did do however, was give her a new perspective, a new way to think on the Force. Maybe their words would help her in her own meditations, whenever she got around to actually doing those.

 

[Qun Vell]

[member="Shule Windspeaker"] [member="Spark Finn"] [member="Kalizka"] [member="Aaralyn Rekali"]

Qun listened to Early and Shirly as they spoke on all sorts of things Qun didn't know. Jedi history, Jedi Parents, this or that, all discussion a bit too deep and philosophical for Qun's drunken mind. As Slicer the Sparkey . . . no . . . Sparkey the Slicer spoke Qun could feel a bit of worry from her, as if she wasn't sure of herself. The way she phrased it being a Jedi sounded tough. Well, Qun knew it was tough, but he had always thought of it as more of a dangerous thing than one filled with wrong and slightly less wrong choices. Part of him was glad he could only use the Force drunk, so that he'd have trouble remembering what wrong decisions he might have made. But then would he be doomed to make those decisions again? The thought made Qun frown a bit, until he heard a tree talk about stubbing his toe. He looked at his box of juice and put it down after that one. Plopping himself down on the ground he raised one of four arms and put it around the young Jedi, pulling her a bit closer, albeit sloppily.

"We'll make mishtakes. Maybe rushin hurt people. Maybe sitting. I don't know. But you-me work together? With theesh guys?" He said, waving his other three arms in general direction of everyone else out there. "We'll be okay. I'll keep you shtrait and you keep me drunk and we'll be jusht fine." His words were long, the pauses between his words fluctuating as he would seem to briefly forget where he was going. His face wore a goofy smile that made no efforts to hide his rank breath.

 

[Spark Finn]

[member="Qun Vell"] [member="Kalizka"]

All that pressure and weight that made her want to shrink into a tiny circuit and wish Carn Dista had never found her on Zeltros began to lighten with the....tree? The words of a being who looked like vegetation. Mouth hitched open and gray-blue eyes stared behind spectacles. And longer than it was considered polite to.

But the rank of juice-flavored alcohol breath invaded her space and interrupted her shocked expression.

Someone. Is. Touching. Me.

There was a reason the slicer preferred to work with data, codes, and comms over people. Less messy. She stiffened. Glasses fell down her nose as she was scooted into the drunk's side. It didn't take much. Spark was gangles and limbs with not much muscle. Probably deep, deep, deep, deep, DEEP down she was somewhat comforted by the contact.

She grunted.

"Sounds like a-uh deal. But you're squishing my bladder and I have to use...the refresher."

 

[Qun Vell]

[member="Spark Finn"]

Qun just looked at the girl for a good fifteen seconds or so before the realization of what she said came to his face. He jumped back a bit and took his arm off her.

"Oh. I'm shorry. Itsh . . . " he said looking around for a moment. "Shomewhere." He said as he stopped trying to figure out where the refresher was. She could probably find it better than he could.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

An awkward silence fell. Some of it, doubtless, had to do with the two drunk Padawans in the back. Odd how the drunk ones seemed to have their heads on straighter than most.

"Well," said the Jedi Master, standing, "I think we've had enough philosophy for the day. I have a treat for you. Stretch your legs; I'll be right back."

He ducked into the briefing room and returned a moment later with a pair of large metal briefcases. Opened, they held large earpieces in foam supports.

"These are Jedi Order Library Cards," he said. "They'll let you talk with most of the Jedi holocrons in the Order's stewardship, no matter where you are. There's a few copies of a short user's manual -- read it. Basic things to know: if you try to talk to a holocron that someone else is using, maybe someone halfway across the galaxy, you'll all be in on one voice connection, and you'll have to sort things out on your own, like who asks the questions, who got there first and all that. Be courteous, be polite...go spend an hour asking any holocron any questions you want."

[member="Qun Vell"] [member="Spark Finn"] [member="Ryan Korr"] [member="Kara Triz"] [member="Kalizka"] [member="Aaralyn Rekali"] [member="Sophie Gustav"] [member="Khaleel Malvern"] [member="Vrook Cho Leem"] [member="Adele Adonai"]

 

[The End Narrator]

Aaralyn looked down at the Library Card and gently took it from the foam support. She took a deep breath and gave [member="Shule Windspeaker"] a nod before placing it over her ear and quietly making her way to the exit of the room. For a moment, she felt something. A presence of another but could not see? She knew it was possible but she could not see the presence of the other Jedi. Why? She turned to her right and looked right through the visage of [member="Adele Adonai"] as if there was nothing there. She bit her bottom left side of her lip in curiousity and turned back to the exit, shaking her head softly.

It would be something she would have to ask the Yoda Holocron when she saw [member="Kiskla Grayson"] again.

Either way, she would consult the Great Holocron and it's gatekeeper - Master Sar Agorn

She was curious about Yaddle's perception of Morichro and the different views behind the Chosen One and it's prophecy.

 

[Not Ordo]

[member="Spark Finn"] [member="Qun Vell"] [member="Shule Windspeaker"] [member="Aaralyn Rekali"]

Kalizka looked at the cards, then to the jedi, then to the padawans, then the cards, back to the padawans, and finally the Jedi Master.

"I am assuming these are regulated somehow." Kalizka said, "I've known a good many of those Jedi in your archives and they would tell you some things we may not be ready to know."

 

[Spark Finn]

[member="Qun Vell"] [member="Kalizka"] [member="Shule Windspeaker"]

By the time she scooted free from her new juice-box sharing friend and came back from the refresher (quite a bit more sober) she caught the tail end of Master Vanilla's offer. Eyes lit up with curiosity. Gingerly stepping over Qun and a few of the other students, giving the tree-man a wide berth, she made her way to the front of the class.

She studiously flipped through the user manual before plucking up one of the ear-pieces.

"Thanks," her gratitude to their teacher was shy. Finding a quiet wall of the room, she settled down and plugged-in.

Welcome Jedi Padawan. Please state what you would like to learn and which holocron you would like to access.

Gray-blue eyes closed, shutting out the distractions of the room. Her voice whispered into the lip of her gray-hoodie. "I'm not very strong or fast. Is there a way to hide or hide others?"

Please state the holocron you would like to learn from.

Sandy-blond brows crinkled in thought. The force flowed through her senses and a name only attributed to the force (or the user manual) popped into her mind. "Tionne, please?"