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Alright, I'm noticing alot of the great ideas that are formulating with the companies among other things. These are new and exciting ideas, but before we can do new and exciting ideas we need to focus on the base work for the factory and that's consistency. We are severely lacking in the consistency. Any complaint I get about the factory its about that. So pause all the new stuff and lets get to work on consistency.
Recently, we've been getting hit with "this didn't get dev why do i have to?" We need to revisit the Standardization Dev Guide - Updated it and really get to know it. I would like to add common weights and such for armors and the like to help people get a general idea about armor weight so we can avoid the confusion last night.
Aright now [member="Raziel"] is working on fixing our starships where A LOT of our issues lie. So when we get that going things should smooth out a bit, but we do need to work on things in Tech as well. So if you all could post a little blurp about what you look for with each of the categories we can zero in on where we are lacking in consistency.
What I look for when Judging:
Armor
Weapons
Vehicles
Ships
Miscellaneous tech
Companies
I don't need a novel in every section, just little things that you see that need development. From there we'll edit and rework the standardization Dev Guide, Also I'd like to include the common weights for like Durasteel, Cortosis etc.
I am particularly interested in what people feel they need to judge ships consistently.
When I judge a ship I look at the size and where it falls in the classifications. Then I look at speed/man/special defences [shields etc]/special systems/hamgars and try to ensure some balance.
What I want to add to the template:
Under each line item in the template - for every class - a guide on what requires dev
A clear statement that adding lots of special systems need to be outlined in strengths and balanced in weaknesses
Cookie cutter ships for each class. Judges and Users can then look at these, compare to the ship being subbed and balance appropriately.
Making the armament rating a requirement for all ships
Adding a mandatory defensive rating to represent the sum total of armour and shielding systems (from 0-20)
Now, I don't like gun counts or gun maths. It's a massive pain and only a few people really want to do it. At the bottom of this post is an example of this and I just don't think it's something we want to present to members. It's complicated and doesn't really have a massive canon basis. Which is again why I favour armament ratings becoming mandatory.
What if I made another visual chart like the ship speed one? If I had a bunch of silhouettes from a quad laser canon to a hypervelocity cannon to show relative scale?
Armaments The chart below shows a range of different options and a rough value of each for comparison. For example you could trade ten turbolasers for a hypervelocity cannon. Of course, you can always submit a new and unique weapon! Here are some basics to work with:
Weapon Emplacement Gun Value Battery Value
Turbolaser 1 0.25 Ion Cannon 1 0.25 Heavy Turbo/Ion 2 0.5 Long-Range Turbo/Ion 5 1.25 Heavy Long-Range Turbo/Ion 10 2.5 Hypervelocity Gun 10 2.5 Turbolaser/Ion Cannon Battery 4 1 Long-Range Battery 4x5=20 5 Heavy Long-Range Battery 4x10=40 10 Quad Turbolaser 4 1 Octuple Barbette Turbolaser 8 2 Heavy Quad Turbolaser Battery 2x4x4=32 8 Heavy Long-Range Quad Turbolaser Battery 2x4x4x5=160 32
Items I feel need development Socketguards - Yes I know I use the heck out of them but for good reason. They are anti-electronic warfare and anti-slicer. They make attacks from external sources nearly impossible and attacks from inside the network itself difficult. GAM "Gravitic Amplitude Modulator" are anti-vong weapons basically. sure they had other uses but that's what people use them for. SLAM "SubLight Acceleration Motor" double the speed of a craft or vessel. These need a variable amount of development per the size of the ship Anti-concussion Field Generator these make hits from missiles, railguns and even HVC to a point alot less effective. De-ionizer these basically reverse the effects of Ion Cannons. These too need to have variable limits of dev for the ship size. Molecular Shielding These absorb energy weapons fire and redirects it to the ships own power systems. Again multiple levels of dev per ship size. Ablative Armor - this uses a current that runs through the armor which acts like a fire break to lessen the amount of damage done by energy weapons. Matrix Armor - this also has extra protection from energy based weapons. Redundat Shielding - I feel this needs some dev also for the higher up levels. I am going to be using triple on all my cal ships since they were canon with triple, and will be developeing a quad redundancy shield for my specail ship designs also which I feel needs dev. Mon Cal ships have triple anyway so I am not sure how to handle that. I think too many people including me are over using this. so if it takes me doing some work for my cal ships I do not mind. Thermal Shielding - this stops projectiles flat out from getting through and also has a higher energy resistance. again dev limits per ship size.
I know there is more but those are the ones off the top of my mind I feel need limitations either by dev or counting as a special system against the ships other systems.
in fact I feel we need to limit specialized systems on ships. Mass produced ships rarely ever have special systems. they are made to be as productively built as possible in most cases.
Oh god I don't think we can list every single one. And who cares about socketguards?
I think you can get away with most of the defensive ones with a well balanced ship. I think rather than list each one there will be a mandatory Defensive rating - seperate from armaments - and a guiideline on what ratings require dev.
Armor
Kind of a loaded question, as you can do stuff like throw the force into the mix, but I'll break down the template piece by piece to detail my train of thought.
Template, for ease of reference:
Image Source: (Please link to where you found the image, or to the original artist if possible. TinEye or Google Image Search can help.) Intent: (Example: 'A personal weapon for Darth Scabious' or 'an advanced armored personnel carrier for the Republic') Development Thread: (The main way people work for their toys, though most submissions don't require a development thread. Restricted items require specific development threads. Substantial development threads can help judges approve more powerful submissions. If in doubt, put 'If necessary,' and a judge may or may not ask you for one. Threads cited here must be at least 10 quality posts.) Manufacturer: (Kuat Drive Yards, BlasTech Industries, [Character Name], etc.) Model: (Example: E-11 Blaster Rifle. For submissions where a model wouldn't be appropriate, such as a custom walking stick, put 'N/A' for 'Not Applicable'.) Affiliation: (Example: The E-11 Blaster Rifle was produced for the Galactic Empire and used almost exclusively by Imperial Stormtroopers. Do not put the company unless the product is only for your company's use. Common choices include 'Open market' or the name of a specific faction.) Modularity: (Can components of this submission be swapped out for other components? Is it especially easy to modify? For most submissions, put 'No'.) Production:Production: (The scale is Unique (Only One Character), Semi-Unique (Only A Handful of Characters), Limited (Only A Select Group Of NPCs/PCs), Minor (Any Character, Only Select Groups Of NPCs), Mass-Produced. (Anyone.)) Material: (What is it made out of? Certain materials are more resistant, or vulnerable, to certain weapons. Example: 'Durasteel, blaster components.') Classification: (Anti-Blaster, Anti-Ballistic, Multipurpose, Other) Weight: (Via Metric System. Appropriate weight varies by quality, material, and character species. For example, standard Mandalorian armor is around 10 kg. Armor made of true Mandalorian iron, or a full set of combat gear for a soldier in the field, can be around 25kg. For special items, try to find the weight of a real-world equivalent.) Quality: (Armor class is a measure of general stopping power. Most light armors would be classified as 1-4, most medium armors would be classified as 5-7, and most heavy armors would be classified as 8-10. However, rare or primitive materials, among other factors, can also affect armor class. For example, stormtrooper armor would be class 5, Mandalore's armor or beskar'kandar would be class 10, and a specially forged suit of personal armor for a high-ranking Force user could be anywhere from class 6-9 or thereabouts, depending on how much effort went into it. Many people choose lower armor classes for their custom armor in a trade off for more powerful equipment or specialized resistances, or simply for more mobility.) Special Features: (Is it resistant to certain weapons? Does it include special sensors? Even if you've discussed your features at length in the Description line of the Base Template, this is a good place to list them.) Description: (Include some strengths and weaknesses here. Describe some of the history behind the submission. Give us some idea of how it might perform its function, what it excels against and what some limitations of it are. This is where you talk about your idea, flesh it out over at least a good-sized paragraph, and address some of the ways it might be used or abused. For especially powerful or ambitious submissions, a very thorough description is recommended.) Primary Source: (Please link the source of another writer's submission that you are modifying for your use; only necessary for "Chaos Canon" submissions)
Is this being developed by a company, an individual, more than one person? Can the manufacturer create what is being submitted? Is the submission linked?
Normally I'll just glance at this at first, them go back after reading the entire submission to see if what was placed in the submission below this field can be made by the listed manufacturer, if not I make that known to the submitter and request either a different manufacturer or development (or, in the case of a company that does not have operations for the armor subbed, I tell them they need their company sub updated and point them towards Company Sub mods and archive the submission until the request is met for an updated company). This usually isn't a big problem.
Affiliation: (Example: The E-11 Blaster Rifle was produced for the Galactic Empire and used almost exclusively by Imperial Stormtroopers. Do not put the company unless the product is only for your company's use. Common choices include 'Open market' or the name of a specific faction.)
Usually this doesn't make a huge difference, but restricting specifically to a single group or even a single character can sometimes act in a similar manner to reducing production. Inversely, making a production of lightsabers for a faction rather than an individual can raise issues.
Production:(The scale is Unique (Only One Character), Semi-Unique (Only A Handful of Characters), Limited (Only A Select Group Of NPCs/PCs), Minor (Any Character, Only Select Groups Of NPCs), Mass-Produced. (Anyone.))
This is usually something we/I spring to depending on other factors in the submission. If the item is mass produced, how high is the quality, what special qualities does the armor have? The same pretty much goes all the way to unique, where we/I become a bit more lenient - but not so lenient that we let things slip through which should require development or changes. If the armor has a restricted material, for example, and only a 10 post development thread for phrik mining and minor production, the submitter will be asked for an additional development (+20 posts, as 10 is usually unique/semi-unique and 20 is usually limited, so 30 would logically be minor) or a drop in production to meet the development. In this situation I would ask for semi-unique or unique if 10 posts are listed.
Production can similarly be effected by special features - if the armor is a force nexus, a real one, then I'm going to be looking at production harder (as I would if it were a restricted material).
Similarly, I'm going to be extremely analytic of submissions with quality 10.
Material: (What is it made out of? Certain materials are more resistant, or vulnerable, to certain weapons. Example: 'Durasteel, blaster components.')
Here's one of the most looked-at part of the submission for armor, second maybe to quality. If the material is a heavy metal, is the weight proportionate (and the quality to that?), and if the material light - light? Phrik is famously an ultra-light material, and songsteel of similar weight, and both grant superior durability, so situations where these materials are used grant leniency on weight, and what would normally be light armor (by weight standard) would quickly become very protective (example: 5-7kg and ~8 quality). If the material is beskar, I'm looking at much greater weight than standard durasteel or other "normal" weight groups, as it is explained to be much heavier than durasteel (as well as more durable). Obviously the same weight group of durasteel to beskar is going to have beskar with greater quality, however, so don't be stuck in that "it doesn't weigh enough" trap.
Weight: (Via Metric System. Appropriate weight varies by quality, material, and character species. For example, standard Mandalorian armor is around 10 kg. Armor made of true Mandalorian iron, or a full set of combat gear for a soldier in the field, can be around 25kg. For special items, try to find the weight of a real-world equivalent.)
And here we see the biggest trap in armor submissions. I think we should take special care to read the template here so we all stay on the same page - Weight varies from material to material, quality of armor, and species (because of the size of the armor). As I summarized above in the materials section, phrik can be light and beskar heavy - but this is in comparison to our medium, durasteel. Keep careful to not assign a weight to a quality, it simply isn't always the case. When in doubt, ask for a second opinion.
And be careful when dealing with alchemy, as it is a common misconception that anything involving it is immediately doubled/tripled. The use of alchemy that increases the weight of the armor is due to the addition of other materials during the process of alchemy, so if the armor utilizes alchemy to specifically change the polarity of the metal (see blast doors) so that it reflects blaster bolts and doesn't defend from lightsabers, keeps normal/below-average resistance from physical blows, and the weight is proportionate (with the material involved) to the quality and its size, there is little to no reason to go crazy over the weight. Edits for the sake of edits is bad.
Quality: (Armor class is a measure of general stopping power. Most light armors would be classified as 1-4, most medium armors would be classified as 5-7, and most heavy armors would be classified as 8-10. However, rare or primitive materials, among other factors, can also affect armor class. For example, stormtrooper armor would be class 5, Mandalore's armor or beskar'kandar would be class 10, and a specially forged suit of personal armor for a high-ranking Force user could be anywhere from class 6-9 or thereabouts, depending on how much effort went into it. Many people choose lower armor classes for their custom armor in a trade off for more powerful equipment or specialized resistances, or simply for more mobility.)
And now to one of the fun parts. Quality. This is heavily dependent on the materials, and failing that - how heavy (due to size/thickness) it is. If the armor is a 20 kg suit of durasteel, quality 8 is certainly feasible, but 4 kg of durasteel spread into a thin suit of armor is certainly not going to be a quality of 8 without other factors (special features, another material, alchemy, etc). If the quality is over 7 and is over limited production it is my recommendation to check the other parts of the sub (such as materials, special features, weight, and function) to see if development is necessary. Quality of 10 should always require development, except in extremely special circumstances - which should be discussed within the factory with each case.
Special Features: (Is it resistant to certain weapons? Does it include special sensors? Even if you've discussed your features at length in the Description line of the Base Template, this is a good place to list them.)
And now the real fun part. Here we check to see if the armor is overpowered (does it block lightsabers, deflect blasters, stop all bullets, etc? If so, check to see if sub is screwed in right) beyond quality and materials.
Lightsaber resistance - Most situations where lightsaber resistance are being asked will require development unless the material used is a submitted material which has already had development done for it. On smaller scale things, canon applications of sith alchemy and force imbuement (and other force stuff) may supersede the previous note, of which I mean things such as braces, gauntlets, maybe sections of plate armor but not the whole thing, and so on. Even in these situations, if you feel it needs development you can still ask for it - but I suggest asking for a second opinion on that choice first, in the case of such canon uses.
Body Augmentation - This almost always requires development, as per the standard development list in the factory information forum, and can range from such things like strength augmentation, reactionary increases, speed bonuses, force augmentation, and so on. If you feel unsure on this, ask away. I lean on the side of development here, though.
There are other things, but those are the most notable special features I can think of. If you have any questions about specific special features, feel free to ask here or start an entirely new topic to discuss it.
[member="Spencer Varanin"] [member="Cira"] [member="Raziel"] [member="Darth Vulkan"] [member="Netherworld"] [member="Gir Quee"] [member="Reshmar"] [member="Ordo"] [member="Pixel"] (Wow there are so many @Mentions now..)
[member="Cira"] I don't want to make it super long but we can talk about the separate posts stuff. Try and keep it simple and not requiring a huge amounts of guides and the like.
[member="Reshmar"] that's getting way too detailed, we need to make things simple and I think something that has balanced weakened and strengths would help with defensive dev. The main problem that 1.0 & 2.0 of the factory was that it was too difficult to understand. A person should be able to pick up the template and be able to make a ship without issues.
[member="Raziel"] I like the idea on adding little bits of what needs dev personally I kind of want to set it up like we have the other standardize dev information. Just a one stop look at everything in general for ships. The armament outline I like as well. Best thing to do - if I can understand it then you're good. Ships stress me out because I don't comprehend them as well as everyone else. :c
[member="Bianca"] looks good and thank you for posting what you look at armor.
