Suggestion Yearly 'Let Minors Be On The Map' Suggestion

[Imperius Indomitus]

as for this, i feel like that's an easy sentiment to have as an MFO, but a minor fac with only three writers is not only taking a risk, they are utterly defenseless against major factions, who far as i can tell usually have a dozen or more people writing consistently. Imo even with a hex and some mandates, a minor faction would be incapable of actually affecting the map. At the end of the day, it's just some extra colored blobs on the map that will probably be gone the moment their new faction protections are dropped and PvP is green lit.

I dont see this as an issue at all. You go on the map because you are aware of what awaits you there. If not, dont go there. There doesnt need to be special treatment to them or anything, the rules can stay the same. Stampeding is afterall prohibited. We just had an awesome thread with the RNR who outnumber us quite significantly and all went quite fine. It is in this case that the Major-Major has to look out for it AND as always it is down to normal, constructive and respectful communication and coordination. And in the end, a PvP that is map affecting - is judged.

A minor off the map you can simply ignore. A minor on the map you suddenly cannot anymore. It has almost all the advantages a normal major has and some more.

 

[Kaila Irons]

Imperius Indomitus you do raise a good point about it being judged. I feel like it's a lot of work for three ppl to hold of a major faction, but i can see it's worth testing. I'm also interested in what you mean when you say they have more advantages than a major faction? what are some examples in your opinion?

Also an interesting question I thought about and want to ask everybody, what happens when two minor factions want to be on the map in the same place? could we see the return of something like the old rebellion system but strictly for minor factions or would it be a first come first serve sort of deal?

 

[Corin Trenor]

Also an interesting question I thought about and want to ask everybody, what happens when two minor factions want to be on the map in the same place? could we see the return of something like the old rebellion system but strictly for minor factions or would it be a first come first serve sort of deal?

Should just be first come first serve basis for the sake of fairness.

 

[Valery Noble]

I think for this to work, you also have to require that they show activity for longer than 30 days before they can apply. 2-4 writers being active in a Minor faction for a month is not uncommon at all.

You see tons of these starting up as a little hype train, and then very quickly just die again. That would add a lot of maintenance time for the admins because I also believe you'd have to nuke inactive Minors a lot faster than we do with Majors if they're on the map.

Someone mentioned Dathomir Nightsisters earlier. I think I've seen dozens of Minors with that theme, and it'd suck if 3 people get that hex on the map and die out super fast, but then keep others from taking that hex. Invasions with factions that only have 3 people, I dont see as feasible way to flip those hexes.

I do kinda like the idea in a way, but I think there's a lot more to consider to make it work. And one way or another, I feel like we'd ask a lot from the admins with this.

 

[Imperius Indomitus]

I'm also interested in what you mean when you say they have more advantages than a major faction? what are some examples in your opinion?

Less writers means you have far more options for coordination and going deeper into stories. Limited/fixed area means you can do all stories you like without having to watch for Populates, Dominions etc and expand the lore of the hex to grand amounts. Just imagine Ivalyn Yvarro would have two more writers with them to expand on Dosuun and have it a hex. It would be one of the richest lore places of the site and easily accessible and visible. If you are a Major-Major and it doesnt work out, you have claim, five, six, ten hexes and you die after half a year, it sucks. But if you are a Major-Minor, you do not get to loose much from it. Its a free-trial.

Also an interesting question I thought about and want to ask everybody, what happens when two minor factions want to be on the map in the same place? could we see the return of something like the old rebellion system but strictly for minor factions or would it be a first come first serve sort of deal?

Same applies as with all map factions of course. First come first serve.

I think for this to work, you also have to require that they show activity for longer than 30 days before they can apply. 2-4 writers being active in a Minor faction for a month is not uncommon at all.

I see that though. Probably two months would give a better scrutiny.

But yeah, the work for admins would be increased by a lot sadly. Even with regular activity checks, maybe every 3-6 months, it would offer the Major-Minors some time but not too much. And if one is reported as inactive, they could get wiped more easily. Afterall, one is not losing much, the lore stays, the stories stay. Only chance is that some big, mean bully Major-Major comes and takes away the place.

 

[Aris Noble]

Gives me Civilization City State vibes. With the new map in the background being made to be huge, there'd be plenty of room for it and make the map pretty interesting to look at.

 

[Seva Beroya]

There's some veiled dislike for Minors hot damn

I like the idea of giving them some screen time. They need more love and visibility.

Give them same rules as Majors to be on the map - but add one extra - it's for a set amount of time - you don't get to hog that hex indefinitely and just be a corpse on it.

If you have 3 or 4 active writers and have been active active for a month or more, do the Major-Minor App to get that one-hex rep on the board for say - 4 months. Why give them an extended period that they need to be active - same argument can actually be made for Majors, tbh.

If you're still active after that hypothetical 4 months and got some more members to boot, you can then do full Major-Major App or return to full Minor status, simple as.

That one hex you choose will obviously not involve Major Faction Capital hexes - only non-Capital.

They'll also need a small mandate or two to choose from in that time that will be specifically for them - just a little bit of protection if a Major decides to be an ass about them and not care about just collabing good story - regardless of the IC intent of that Minor (like a criminal faction for instance - can make for some fun law enforcement stories) Cause we are all guilty of ignoring Minors somewhere - cause they Minor - every Major has done it to some extent. (I think Diarchy might be the exception to that rule, though, from personal experience )

Just give the Minors a bit of love for an X amount of time, nobody gets hurt and it may be just the push some of the Minors need to go Major-Major - they just need that bit of visibility for a little while to draw a little extra attention to their little sandbox.

Cause tbh - none of the current Majors can get hurt by a one hit wonder hex popping up in their cloud somewhere. Even a new Major Faction can't get hurt with the 7 starting hex option.

 

[Tefka]

yearly "just go major" response

 

[Imperius Indomitus]

Expected and yet worth a try.

 

[Aris Noble]

Thinking more about it, the big ol' map that's coming can introduce a neat new kind of rp interaction where minors on it close together can be like "oh hey you're right there lets make an alliance".

Could they do that already? Yeah but the visibility of minor factions is pretty small. Unless you know a guy who knows a guy you might never realize there's a minor faction on the same world doing the same thing. Look at the map and bam hey so and so next door could be a cool ally (or enemy).

Aka it can make more rp. I like more rp.

 

[Tefka]

I mean the same people saying "just choose some of them" are the same people you'd see complaining about "Staff" factions. How do you avoid favoritism in order to pick "some of them".

The same people suggesting this are the same people who don't show up for Major faction events just to toss like one or two posts a week to keep them active.

The same people suggesting this prefer Discord activity and friend gangs over the simple equation of forum activity.

The same people suggesting this want a singleplayer Chaos where they can have painted blobs on a map representing what they own, and no other.

At this point just commission me to update your own IRL singleplayer map. We're the most active we've been in 5 years and some Majors still struggle to keep 5 people actively posting in Major Faction activities.

This suggestion is a dogwhistle for the singleplayers, a dogwhistle for the roleplay is worthless without the map game, a dogwhistle for the I want all the benefits without any of the cooperation and work that Majors do. It is today, it has always been, it offers Chaos nothing but gives the singleplayer roleplayer everything. There is no other way to justify it, no matter the narrative painted, no matter the carefully constructed argument to debate in the Suggestion forum.


I've been incredibly consistent in my answer to this suggestion, because the suggestion and it's justification has literally never changed. So yeah, no surprise, but no, not worth the effort. I don't understand why ya'll try. The masses will fall for "yay cool new stuff" because it's little effort and little consequence on their part, but I - and the institution I represent responsible for these ideas' implementation - have no choice but to not budge on it. It's like asking us to change the sky to purple, we have no choice but to tell you it's blue.

 

[Tefka]

Aka it can make more rp. I like more rp.

you're just dead wrong. Paint blobs are a result of roleplay, not a constructor of it.

 

[Imperius Indomitus]

The map is one of the outstanding features of Chaos, to degrade it's effect on RP as the one who is making it, is just not making a whole lot of sense. It is a central part of Chaos and it creates RP.

It's just tiring to see it being shit on for being an opportunity for some people to put their roleplay into perspective. Some like that a lot, I for sure do. To have a "bigger scale", some background, some impact felt is exactly what it is making it exciting to be part of it. Has nothing to do with Singleplayer either, but get that little bit of visibility for the smaller things however short they may be.

It's totally understandable that it's a chore for the admins and therefore denied. But not based on people enjoying the feature you gave to us.

 

[Shan]

I know it's not like an official change like the suggestion is asking for but I'm pretty sure someone suggested the idea of using new map that got released and editing it for like minor factions to show where they're set up. If minor factions really want to do some kind of map game, they can just do it that way. It won't be official but it lets them get that hex fix they might want.

If the minor faction has a discord, they can just make a channel where they shove in the new map and add edits when they need to. That way it can also be kept record for their own rp.

 

[Tefka]

The map is one of the outstanding features of Chaos, to degrade it's effect on RP as the one who is making it, is just not making a whole lot of sense. It is a central part of Chaos and it creates RP.

It's just tiring to see it being shit on for being an opportunity for some people to put their roleplay into perspective. Some like that a lot, I for sure do. To have a "bigger scale", some background, some impact felt is exactly what it is making it exciting to be part of it. Has nothing to do with Singleplayer either, but get that little bit of visibility for the smaller things however short they may be.

It's totally understandable that it's a chore for the admins and therefore denied. But not based on people enjoying the feature you gave to us.

Being shit on? Lmao. I mean holy gaslight batman, what is this argument. You're saying, in summary, that because the map is so cool I shouldn't be mad that people want to be apart of it.

It's honestly impressive the way you painted this particular argument, because it spins me and the SWRP Staff Team again as the bad guy for "shitting on the little people who want to be apart of it."

I want roleplayers to be apart of the map. That's why an entire game was constructed 12 years ago to allow them to be apart of it. What you're not understanding is, it is gatekept. It is a funnel. There is a way to be a part of the map game. It's called being a Major Faction. And over the years, we have DRASTICALLY reduced the requirements in able to pass through this gate, in order to make it accessible to the most amount of people. 5 people and like, 30 days of consistency. That is such an incredibly low bar in the world of post-by-post roleplaying, it's honestly insulting to me how low it is, but I had to lower it because of the decline in effort and the complaints from players who think that there shouldn't be a gate.

Those people, who you are representing in your argument, think literally every Tom, Dick, and Harry deserve to have an Admin go change the color of a hex simply because a player requested it. That's it. That's where ya'll think the bar is. You think by saying "I'm a governor of Tython, I would like this represented on the map", you can have an Administrator go legitimize it by painting a color on the map, and poof, it is so.

No. Literally, figuratively, no.

Go roleplay. Go put forth the effort ya'll put on suggestion thread metas on keeping these Majors afloat, or building your own. Because regardless of how many times you accuse the SWRP Staff Team of not wanting to do it because "its a chore for the admins and therefore denied", I will deny the bad ideas in the Suggestion forum. I don't need to play the narrative game or the debate game in this forum. I admit it's fun to dunk but c'mon, you could literally "be the change" by roleplaying instead of this.

Because I don't care if you actually succeed in convincing people that Admin = bad. Anyone who falls for that cheap trick can go kick rocks too lmfao.

 

[Tefka]

I fell for the suggestion meta trap, ya got me, ya'll won. So here's a TLDR; for people who want to press skip:

TLDR: Admins bad until suggestions are good, then Admins will be good and implement.

 

[Imperius Indomitus]

It was not meant as an attack on the admins in any way. Apologies if it came across as it. It is just frustrating because every now and then people, not the admins, decide to say that the map means jack shit to roleplay, while it doesn't. It's frustrating. The ridicule is not necessary to bring across a point.

 

[Tefka]

The ridicule is not necessary to bring across a point.

It's totally understandable that it's a chore for the admins and therefore denied.

Was it necessary to paint this argument? Literally nobody was saying this until you did.

The ridicule is not necessary to bring across a point.

It's just tiring to see it being shit on

Was it necessary to say "it's being shit on?" Honestly in terms of my ability to ridicule, my responses to this thread was pretty mild. How about you listen and attack the points discussed, if you disagree, instead of yanking on emotional responses of "Admins think its a chore therefore its denied" and "Admins are shitting on the map".

You did this, that's your interpretation, I wasn't shitting on you and I never once said this idea wasn't being implemented because of the effort required by the SWRP Staff Team. I do agree that's a good reason though, but it's not even in the top five.

This is a bad idea.

It's not "shitting on you" to say a cow moo's. It is not shitting on you to say grass is green. It is not shitting on you to say the sky is blue. A bad idea is a bad idea. It's not ridicule to say this is a bad idea.

If it helps, I can bring a lollipop and a back massage next time I have to tell you something is a bad idea. See, this last statement is an example of ridicule.

 

[Imperius Indomitus]

The issue would not keep appearing and being discussed if it were not emotional. We would not be roleplaying if we were not feeling emotional about it. That's just how it is.

To see an absolutely wrong statement being made that it does or would not generate more Roleplay, is making one emotional.

All the points, arguments were made in the thread already. But then let's entertain the specifics now.

What are the top five reasons not to do it? Excluding admin work as it is not part of them of course. That way everyone who has not paid attention at the yearly revival of this issue, can see why it is not an option.

 

[Tefka]

The issue would not keep appearing and being discussed if it were not emotional. We would not be roleplaying if we were not feeling emotional about it. That's just how it is.

God this guy can't see the difference between roleplay and the suggestion forum. Go put your emotion in your writing, where it belongs, and leave it there.

God willing I hope you never become an MFO lmao.

ll the points, arguments were made in the thread already. But then let's entertain the specifics now.

nah time's up, go read the last 20 threads about this subject to get more of my views on it.