Adding Influence

[Akio Kahoshi]

With the recent discussions, and the continuing discussion of the Rebellion rules that were nixed, I had an idea for a new set of rules that would help make the map more dynamic and factions in general more interesting.

Influence.

The basis of this are two types of influence. Influence of the State, and influence of the People. Not actually named that, but just to give a distinction. What we see on the map is the Influence of the State. The One Sith may own Coruscant, but do the people of Coruscant want them there? Probably not. On the same token, a criminal empire may buy the politicians of a planet, but they run it from the shadows. While the ADA controls Tantooine, we all know its the criminals that really run the show on that fun little planet.

So what does this mean? It means we need to start looking at things from more than one direction, not just the top down "which government claims this planet." This idea is for minor factions, factions that may have a Galaxy wide effect but never actually "own" a single planet.

Such factions include Rebel factions, merc factions, crime factions, religious factions, and more.

For it we add a new level of dominions and invasions. Influence missions of a sort. While Naboo belonged to the Galactic Republic, the Trade Federation blockaded it and established influence rule over the planet. The Republic (or rather a couple Jedi, a Queen, and some goofy aliens), did a counter and removed that influence. Okay maybe not the best example, but you get my point.

Influence would be a separately tracked sphere on the map. Minor factions can raise influence on free planets to establish themselves easily, and spread their influence. But they can also spread their influence within the territory of major factions. The further they push this influence, the stronger their influence becomes elsewhere. Eventually reaching the point where they can bypass the major faction completely on that planet.

For it to work I think we would need stages of influence:

1. Little influence - The faction has a minor presence, not really known by the major faction. The faction can move their people to and form this planet without to much effort, but have little effect on what happens on the planet.
2. medium influence - The faction has a serious influence on the planet. Their presence may or may not be known, depending on how secretive the faction is (a major faction may not mind a major merc operation on one of their planets for instance). The minor faction can influence politics on the planet, but ultimately control is still with the major faction.
3. Heavy influence - The major faction is control in name rather than practice. If the local politicians are loyal, they may alert the major faction that they've lost control. If they've been sufficiently bribed, only direct contact will alert the owners. The minor faction has complete political influence on the planet, and can control its actions (or inaction).
4. Rebellion - A minor faction that chooses to go major can use their influence to take over a planet as their new capital. At this point the original owners are kicked out, and the planet has a new owner.

Both the minor faction and major faction involved can do "invasions" to increase of decrease influence on a planet. But instead of weapons and Force powers, these battles are won through words, money, and intrigue. There is also ways this can work with major factions against each other to make things more interesting, but for now I think just focusing on minor factions is better.

This is just the simplest of ideas, but the question is if anyone finds it an idea worth developing further.

 

[Mrrew]

I actually really like this, it would put a little more spotlight on minor factions while also making things all the more interesting for the majors, and giving a shade of realism to dominions and control. I always wondered how one capital city of a planet was invaded and suddenly the entire planet was loyal to a faction. However this is going to get really complicated. How will you keep track of it on the map? More colors? Faded colors? A whole different map? This has the chance to get way too complicated. Just my two cents. I like it, but I'm unsure as to how it would work.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

Considering that the TradeFed took over Naboo by invading it...I don't think that's a good example. However, I like the idea in principle, especially the focus on minor factions and Rebellions.



A good example for a minor faction with considerable 'influence' and both hard and soft power is the Tion Hegemony. Said group, after plenty of work put in by the writers there, pretty much rules the Tion Cluster. Likewise it has considerable leverage beyond that area of space because almost all of the megacorporations of the Galaxy (I think all the Tier VI ones) are members (given the rules on fleet sizes they can actually muster a considerable fleet), meaning they have clout in lots of the great galactic powers. It's pretty much the trade federation with actual brains driving it, a corporate superpower.


Likewise the Kaeshana Confederation has put plenty of work into fortifying and developing Kaeshana, which is pretty much rules autonomously though it's formally part of OP, and in expanding its influence in Protectorate, e.g. wiping out the last Bando Gora on Gehenna and terraforming the planet, along with building up its own military. It's off-topic, but personally I think minor factions should be able to defend themselves against 'dominions', which to my knowledge at present they can't, but that's another matter.



Likewise, invading a territory and succeeding does not automatically ensure the people are obedient to you. Otherwise...Afghanistan would have been a hell of a lot less complicated for the Soviets and then for Americans and friends! That said, Mrrew has a point that this would probably be...rather complicated to carry out in practice, though it's somethin to discuss.

 

[Akio Kahoshi]

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"] Yeah trade federation was a weak example I admit, but canon star wars is all about the heroes and single battles that defeat entire empires. Not a lot of good examples. Though it does work for minor factions fighting off dominions. Yavin IV was held by the minor faction of the Rebels, the major faction of the Empire attempted a dominion and was driven back. Then Hoth was held by influence of the Rebels, and the major faction Empire ran a "dominion" on the planet and won. Two iconic situations in the movies supported by this idea.

[member="Mrrew"] You are very correct, this could get complicated. I had been thinking of all those scenarios myself. That is one reason I stopped at just the basics, because there are a lot of other smart and talented people on this board who may see the problem differently and come up with a better solution than I.

 

[Fatty]

Well to make this less complicated, why not make minor factions apply for an Influence Template? That way, not every minor faction around the block is entitled to where they intend to "set up shop" in that moment, when it's likely they'll flop a week later.

That way they can be less than a major faction (in terms of map recognition) while still being able to hold rights over a planet, or collection of planets.

It'd basically be a company, but instead of owning products you'd own a planet or two (probably case by case basis). I think it would make an excellent addition to the Lore section.

And perhaps influence could increase with "Lore points". The more you do to improve the infrastructure or literal lore of your "claimed" world, the more sway you have when it comes to Major faction regulations. And since this is about influence, multiple parties could even claim the same world, and then it becomes a competition of who has more say there, and a natural heirarchy of actual serious Minor Factions, and less serious flop-in-a-week Minor factions will naturally develop. This then would increase Major and Minor relations, as there will actually be Minor groups that have a considerable amount of say in a given region they might be interested in, rather than the Major faction always having absolute dominance.

Also, I feel like there needs to be a distinction made between "Factions" and "Groups", but that's a topic for another time.

 

[Tefka]

Without a team dedicated to upkeeping the map, I don't see any changes to the influence system ever happening.

 

[Fatty]

I still suggest what I suggest before, because Minor factions get recognition as existing on a political sphere without actually being put on the map. That's for the big leagues.

 

[Caius Flavian]

Hello!

Just came across this thread.

I don't have a lot of time right now, but as FL for the Imperial Remnant would not mind considering our area of space to be a testing ground for this.

OOC my interactions with minor factions and companies have been helping add toward the development of our tiny slice of space.

We have a number of minor factions now slowly adding to the region of space we control

For example
The Rebel Alliance is aiding a local resistance group in one of our systems (the Luminita system which is home to Crina)
The Rebel Alliance is also going to attempt to disrupt our shipyards we are building with

The Primeval although they intend to go Major here in time will also have an impact upon things

The Order of the Phoenix is going to be setting up a temple in our space

I have had now two members of the Corporate Alliance strike contracts with Imperial Remnant

Along with the future possibility of setting up a republic embassy. Rendili is also a member of the Corporate Alliance and having spoken OOC with the owner about republic space stations this will add jsut one tiny more point of influence.

I fully support this and again once I see about the feelings of my faction members on this I would love to be the test bed for this

The Imperial Remnant is a stratocratic government with an absolute monarchy, an Empress who desires to protect all who become citizens within her territory and a shrewd Emperor who is adept at understanding the role of the Empire. "Father knows best" kinda of state...

I'll follow this thread and be back later to see where we are at!

EDIT: Also as a Major Faction leader volunteering for this I would safely assume partial responsibility in the upkeep of this Influence system. If in coordination with a codex judge/roleplay judge we can develop this together I'm again more than willing to work will ya'll

Second edit(cause I'm now two beers deep): By partial responsibility I mean the area of space my IC government currently holds!

[member="Fatty"]
[member="Tsavong Kraal"]
[member="Akio Kahoshi"]
[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"]
[member="Mrrew"]
[member="Akio Kahoshi"]

 

[Tefka]

I still suggest what I suggest before, because Minor factions get recognition as existing on a political sphere without actually being put on the map. That's for the big leagues.

Plenty of minor factions have gotten recognition without it being spoon fed to them.

 

[Akio Kahoshi]

[member="Tefka"] recognition and relevance are not necessarily the same thing though. A system like this would let the more active minor factions have a way to really affect things without going to major. Not every faction makes sense as major, even if they have more than seven members.

 

[Tefka]

Like, I think it's a neat idea from the perspective of "I'm not responsible for it's upkeep", but once you tell me I am - then it becomes not so "relevant" to what Staff governs in the realm of role-play.

 

[Caius Flavian]

[member="Tefka"]

I'm sorry but that statement of it being spoon fed is a bit crass...

This seems to give a particular depth to things.

There are hundreds if not thousands of cultures across the breadth of the star wars galaxy.

Providing a way for a minor faction to have a big impact requires proper reciprocation for both the major and minor. For instance there is an Alderaan resistance minor faction. Skirmish threads and development threads could have a great impact on providing a means for them to one day achieve throwing off the yoke of the OS.

That same example could be used for any minor faction really.

Not even just resistance groups but also developing out systems.
I just joined the pubs for OOC reasons. Senators who represent certain systems could use this as a means of gain greater sway.
Perhaps the closure of some military base some where or a factory in one system could be part of a political fallout and that faction loses influence.

 

[Tefka]

I'm sorry but that statement of it being spoon fed is a bit crass...

You get a bit salty after so many years of doing this.

Providing a way for a minor faction to have a big impact requires proper reciprocation for both the major and minor. For instance there is an Alderaan resistance minor faction. Skirmish threads and development threads could have a great impact on providing a means for them to one day achieve throwing off the yoke of the OS. That same example could be used for any minor faction really.

I agree with you. It'd be awesome. But you're thinking in terms of ideas and imagination, not in practicality and logistics.

I don't have enough manpower.

"So get more, Tef."

Then I have to govern that manpower.

Staff is what, nearly 30 people? We're not going to get any bigger unless absolutely necessary, and a new "splash" feature for minor factions doesn't constitute as necessary.

We have a map that gets updated. We have Major Factions. We have minor factions. We have rank titles that get updated daily by the dozen. We have a steadily growing member base. We have events we want to do.

We have custom species, custom planets, custom locations, custom vehicles, places to create your favorite weapon and get it canonically submitted. We have a restricted and banned item list to govern overpowered stuff. We have a three tiered system of Force Users and countless other things.

We have a server that 800 "registered" members - not counting visitors - visit daily with one server admin to maintenance it.

Can we not ask for "more", guys? I'm not sure we can handle more right now. Let's tweak what we've got.

 

[Jsc]

Quickly, throw money at him! Then demand advertising blocks on the homepage, premium memberships and lobbyist favoritism, fundraisers, blood drives, girl-scout cookiees, take out and dine in, oh... Yes. How about a wiki with an addition 30 Staff Members, rules and hourly oversight. Then! Let's take the website public and trade it on market. 51% shares grants the owner the right to install Gundams in the Factory. Mughahaha!!!

...Or,

We could just accomplish things through good RP and the helpful spirit of our friends. No Staff intervention needed. No popularity contests requested. Mmm. Yummy.

 

[Tefka]

I belong to a few server admin communities and their initial reaction looking at SWRP was 1) Holy crap that's a lot of posts in only 2 years and 2) Holy crap you have a lot of Staff members.

This board is very dependent on Staff, moreso than a lot of the other ones I perused - one of my goals in 2015 is to move us away from that so Staff is free to fulfill requests like this one, in a more intelligent and modern way.

 

[Caius Flavian]

[member="Tefka"]

Mmmhmmm.. salt can be good for yah but be careful ya might get high blood pressure from that

Well here is the thing. It may not necessarily have to be a map thing then. But the responsibility of allowing such a system can rest on the shoulders of the Major faction owners/leadership. We may not have to do a points system or something but I mean we have that lore section that I'm dying to put stuff in but haven't had the chance between the high tempo pace this site has (which is awesome and not awesome!)

If this is done through us the membership then those of responsible for those areas of space on the map.

I will say once again that the Imperial Remnant is more than willing to be a test bed for this idea. We have perhaps the smallest amount of territory on the map with a moderately small active member base but damit we got moxy.

EDITED: Cause I'm moderately drunk at this point... who cleans their house sober? not me :lol:
Essentially we can make this work but it just needs to be a continual discussion!

 

[Fatty]

[member="Tefka"] I agree with [member="Akio Kahoshi"]

However, I'll not fight it out of respect of your opinion. I do not think the idea of it should be shot down because you do not think it is viable. I would like to think that such ideas that have generated enough interest to have discussions such as this one (and enough interest to get your attention here), should at the very least, be mentioned, or considered briefly in you meetings with the rest of Staff, despite personal preference.

I would like to hope you would be surprised about the reception, but that may be me being hopeful.

As for the "necessity", I consider it a nice stepping stone to an effective Rebellion system.

I retract my would be former statement, after that dosage of reality from Tefka, I am in agreeance that this is not a viable system necessary for our Roleplaying experience, as good as it would be.

Though I do think it could work as OOC rules governed by the Factions affected. A Major Faction could keep a charter of Minor Factions, and have them figure it out. Of course, the Major Factions would have to consent to it, unless it becomes a requirement of a Major Faction status.

Would that be more viable [member="Tefka"]?

 

[Akio Kahoshi]

Perhaps rather than looking at it from "need more Tef" we should look at it from "how can this be done without Tef?" If the factions involved must keep up their own influence charts that takes the work off of staff, and it forces the minor factions that wish to be active in this another barrier to keep every new pop up faction from trying to take over everyone.

Make it harder for members to do to limit it only to those that really want to, while minimizing the involvement of staff.

 

[Tefka]

But the responsibility of allowing such a system can rest on the shoulders of the Major faction owners/leadership.

Major Faction leaders could already do this by creating their own maps of their territory and providing the option themselves. But it won't be Staff governed.

Staff's not going to intentionally back any Major Faction leader because my honest opinion is, not too many people in this community should be given more authority than necessary. Mainly because I've seen a lot of A-holes come through here and somehow make it to leadership positions, and I'm not going to back those sort of people with any sort of Staff-supported authority.

Want to be a test-bed? Do it within your own faction. But do so knowing Staff will not assist in any manner whatsoever. We might watch. But we're not going to help.

 

[Tefka]

"how can this be done without Tef? Staff?"

Major Faction leaders could already do this by creating their own maps of their territory and providing the option themselves. But it won't be Staff governed.

Want to be a test-bed? Do it within your own faction. But do so knowing Staff will not assist in any manner whatsoever.