Are we in a downward spiral/Where have all the Majors gone?

[Ellie Mors]

It's not a holiday thing. It's a a cultural issue between factions where they're content to interact with those they like and starve those they don't. Hence all the lovely map sand boxes.

This.

If you were here for the GR vs OS, the GA vs OS & GA vs FO, and/or the SJO vs GE & Sith Empire, you might be aware that there was a lot of anger involved with dealing with people that were on opposing sides. Somewhere along the way people stopped trying to start stories with people that they don't think will have a story go in a way they want or expect, which has led to the impressive lack of invasions up until the 2 pending ones.

What we can take away from this, rather than ignoring the issue, is that perhaps we need to work on not hating every opposing side, or not vilify writers of characters you (in the generic plural sense for everyone to identify with) don't like. This is especially hard, because of our usual investment in the characters or factions we write, to the point where we might think it's "unfair" for certain things to happen to us or our factions, but we really need to step back, look at the broader picture, and just learn to roll with the punches.

I'm not speaking from a soap box, either, there's several people in my time here that I've had issues with, and still do, and sometimes people bringing up conversations like this remind me that I need to re-evaluate how I'm dealing with people and groups on the forum.

If we try to stop avoiding confrontation, and those of us who seek it stop doing so in a crass or venomous manner, we might see a surge in activity similar to the tail end of 2014 and the majority of 2015.

We're on a role-playing forum, meant to interact with other writers and factions - major factions in particular are supposed to do so whether we want to or not, including being the ones to try to start that interactive process. It's time we learn how to walk again, properly, and fix the situation before it becomes irreversible. Maybe I don't like some of the Jedi, and maybe someone else doesn't like Sith or writers in the First Order, but we should be mature enough to put aside our differences and write together amicably, because without the opposite side we're only going to drown in a stagnant mess.

 

[Josh Dragovalor]

I'm actually pretty cool with the trimming of restrictions. Star Wars is ripe for story material and focusing more on storytelling for progression instead of an enforced system has, by what I've been seeing, encouraged people more to develop their stories more and keep things going on that way. It also trims the impact of OOC politics and cliques, which is always a plus. I'm also okay with the lessened amount of Invasions, especially as we've seen Skirmishes become a more common occurrence in turn. I feel like it allows for people to write stories because they want to, not because they have to. Thus, story quality goes up all around. I know this from experience, as without clique pressure or feeling like I have to write big stories to progress or to get an upper hand for one reason or another, the stories I've been writing since I have returned to the site have been amongst my favorites. Are they the biggest stories? No, but they are meaningful to myself and others, and lend more to genuine character development. My muse for this site has not been greater.

I do agree that factions could afford to work together more OOC, but indeed there is a lot of animosity by what I've seen. Which drives a lot of people to stay in their own silos where to them it's a far less toxic roleplaying environment. Competitive spirit and the malice of some key players has been a massive cause to this, I feel. Some bad apples will make many think the rest are that bad, or those bad apples may even bring a malicious spirit to others.

Separating the more toxic ones from the rest of the pack, and showing that the rest of said factions aren't so scary might be a stride toward fixing this. But fixing this sort of thing will be far from easy. Once one gets an impression, well...

 

[Xi Rel]

It dont help that the site vas basicly un-usable, for the past month-and-half or more. Im sure plenty of ppl got sick of 504s and leaved for greener pastures. I come very close, my-self.

 

[Asaraa Vaashe]

Ok, so I've been thinking about this all day, so please excuse me if this turns into a stream of thought, I'll try to keep my thoughts in line.

I've been here just over a year, I can't talk about whatthe board was like in 2014, or 2015, just last year. But in that year I've seen Major factions go to the edge of war over small things OOC. I've seen friends made and I've seen people lose friends over the same. So I don't think that it's the Major Factions that are dying, or that are a problem, I think that it's the communications where has started to fall down. People have said it before in this thread, we get protective of our factions. Yes, we're all part of a larger community of writers, but when you have a story to tell, when you want to do something for most people their faction is the first place they look. After all these are the people you talk to every day, these are the people you know and trust. So falling into a circle is inevitable, but that just makes it so much easier to develop a factional mindset, to dislike a faction or a person because of past slights that you weren't even around for.

I'm as guilty of that as anyone. I recently started talking to some people that I'd heard the stories about, that I'd been told about and guess what...we actually got along. Even someone you clashed with in the past may not be the same, people change over time, and deserve a second chance. But, Chaos isn't always great about that, about forgiving or giving a second chance. Whether it's a person, or a faction, impressions tend to stick in our heads. That's something we can all work on, and that's something I plan to work on for myself.

So, no I don't think the Major Factions are going extinct, but I do think that the nature of the board has changed, Invasions aren't the cetral focus they used to be. Factional stories are, and if we don't interact by invading one another we skirmish, and for now, maybe that's better. Yes, there's less at stake in a skirmish, but there's less salt and OOC drama too, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Ok, so I've been thinking about this all day, so please excuse me if this turns into a stream of thought, I'll try to keep my thoughts in line.

I've been here just over a year, I can't talk about whatthe board was like in 2014, or 2015, just last year. But in that year I've seen Major factions go to the edge of war over small things OOC. I've seen friends made and I've seen people lose friends over the same. So I don't think that it's the Major Factions that are dying, or that are a problem, I think that it's the communications where has started to fall down. People have said it before in this thread, we get protective of our factions. Yes, we're all part of a larger community of writers, but when you have a story to tell, when you want to do something for most people their faction is the first place they look. After all these are the people you talk to every day, these are the people you know and trust. So falling into a circle is inevitable, but that just makes it so much easier to develop a factional mindset, to dislike a faction or a person because of past slights that you weren't even around for.

I'm as guilty of that as anyone. I recently started talking to some people that I'd heard the stories about, that I'd been told about and guess what...we actually got along. Even someone you clashed with in the past may not be the same, people change over time, and deserve a second chance. But, Chaos isn't always great about that, about forgiving or giving a second chance. Whether it's a person, or a faction, impressions tend to stick in our heads. That's something we can all work on, and that's something I plan to work on for myself.

So, no I don't think the Major Factions are going extinct, but I do think that the nature of the board has changed, Invasions aren't the cetral focus they used to be. Factional stories are, and if we don't interact by invading one another we skirmish, and for now, maybe that's better. Yes, there's less at stake in a skirmish, but there's less salt and OOC drama too, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

The point that is being iterated is that factions are slowly being reduced in number and are not being replaced in a proportionate number by new ones. Existing, and even the new major factions, pick and choose who to interact with - including regarding other factions. Skirmishes are great and all - as long as both sides are willing to post. The current climate of RP is as follows:

Do I like this person/Faction?

• If Yes: Move to the next question.
• If No: I will not write with this person/faction.

Does this thread have elements I do not like?

• If Yes: I will not write in this thread.
• If No: Move to the next question.

Is there any chance of me losing something (or my faction losing something) that isn't something I can just hand-wave away?

• If Yes: I will not write in this thread.
• If No: Move to the next question.

Is this thread a skirmish or invasion or rebellion or any thread that isn't only for my own faction (or isn't a private thread)?

• If Yes: I will probably not write in this thread.
• If No: I will write in this thread.

Pretending this is okay is ridiculous. Yes, it's perfectly fine to write with your own small groups, but there is a giant leap of difference between having a tight-knit group of people you write with, and the entire forum slowly backing away from interaction with other parties. If you peruse the Open Role-Playing forum you will see a grand total of two skirmishes (four if you go back a week and count the ones that never got anywhere). All of these skirmishes are also a whopping two factions (and yes, that includes the ones I didn't initially count). The rest of these threads? One-off public threads, dominions, and largely faction threads. Is there anything wrong with a dominion, or a faction thread, or even a one-off public thread in a vacuum? No.

What the issue is that nearly all of the activity on the forum has funneled into these specific types of content because they bar other groups from interacting with those in the thread, effectively closing them off from the outside. While there's nothing wrong with having a dominion, partaking in a public thread, or having a faction thread going, everything is wrong with replacing all other interaction with those specific thread types because it kills the interaction between factions and writers that normally would not (or in this case, specifically do not want to) interact with.

And yes, people need to stop getting worked up over "OOC things". That goes to everyone. But this doesn't excuse cutting off all interaction with everyone else on the board just because you don't like them. Being in a major faction means you have to grow up and deal with interacting with other groups on the map, that's what was signed up for, that's what you get. If you, personally, don't want to interact with anyone except a tight-knit group then more power to you, but let's not turn the entire forum into a bunch of people writing in private threads because eventually most of us will end up leaving. That isn't good, that never will be good, and we shouldn't pretend it is.

And, to get to the point of why I quoted the post above, it's because no, we are not skirmishing instead of invading - there are only 4 skirmishes ongoing right now and they're all between 2 individual major factions (3 for 1, 1 for another), and this is certainly not the norm - we are doing exclusive, faction-only, threads in place of invasions. And no, that isn't okay.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

I'm in full on agreeance with [member="Lily Kuhn"] about the state of Chaos' social climate. The site is very clique, and I think a big part of it is that people see Factions as their homes instead of the site sometimes. Which, shouldn't be the case.

Because [lets take the big boi for example] regardless of how well [member="Srina Talon"], [member="Darth Metus"], and all the other members of the CIS staff work together or how hard they work. I genuinely hope the CIS, and all the various other large Factions TSE and FO have a prosperous and well worth existence. But not necessarily a long one. They should all come crashing down eventually. Because, they need to - not for the sake of spitefulness but for the benefit of the sites health. Factions should be liquid and come and go naturally. Not stagnate or hold on like that friend at the party who won't just go at the end.

Just consider the lifespan of Tef's Mando faction, it had its story and had its go. And its still a good read and a good story.

I feel like a big problem with the longevity of things is really an OOC issue and to help me explain, I'll quote our friend palpatine.

'Those with power, are afraid to lose it.' And lets not kid ourselves, being at the top or within a Major Faction is a form of power, it provides influence and typically notoriety [whether that makes you loved or hated is circumstantial] and we're all too worried about losing these things.

People on Chaos care ​too much​ about their imaginary shinies. Like I get it, when I get the Rocket Launcher and Shotgun in Halo I'm too busy trying not to die to play the game well and I think that in some way is happening on Chaos in a much more subtle and bigger way.

We've relaxed the rules sure, that's great. But people have only got more pint up and intense.

I think everybody needs to be reminded that this is a game and its okay to get serious about it sometimes but it really doesn't matter. The friends you make and the memories you have, they surely do. But that's it. We need to start taking chances and risks again!

And you can say that well, we have two invasions coming but they probably wouldn't be coming if it weren't for the OOC hatred. People should be invading each other throughout the year, constant. Better yet, why not just agree to win some lose some with your enemy? Just stop caring about winning and care about losing gracefully.

I'm rambling at this point trying to get my point across but - guyz I tried. Thanks for reading.

 

[The Major]

Nothing is stopping people in this topic who are not satisfied with the current major factions to gather together and make their own major.

I think I count at least 5 people citing clique climate as being too stifling. Maybe you can try it together and see how far it goes? Stoke your own activity?

 

[Tmoxin Temi]

I'll keep this short. I agree with Lis.

Until writers begin to respect each other OOC, I personally have not and will not enjoy PVP for awhile. Two observations that have lead me to say "no thanks" lately:

- Getting harassed directly in PMs about how a writer's character is gonna wreck mine.
- Invasions being a format for someone to promote their character as the MOST IMPORTANT FIGURE IN THE INVASION and downright ignoring one on one stories in an effort to be some kind of manufactured MVP. The grandstanding is tiresome.

I'm not claiming to be perfect myself, but until the above changes, my forays into invasions, skirmishes and PVP will be limited unfortunately. I'm not saying we all have to like each other, but a little respect goes a long way.

 

[Natasi Fortan]

I'll keep this short. I agree with Lis.

Until writers begin to respect each other OOC, I personally have not and will not enjoy PVP for awhile. Two observations that have lead me to say "no thanks" lately:

- Getting harassed directly in PMs about how a writer's character is gonna wreck mine.
- Invasions being a format for someone to promote their character as the MOST IMPORTANT FIGURE IN THE INVASION and downright ignoring one on one stories in an effort to be some kind of manufactured MVP. The grandstanding is tiresome.

I'm not claiming to be perfect myself, but until the above changes, my forays into invasions, skirmishes and PVP will be limited unfortunately. I'm not saying we all have to like each other, but a little respect goes a long way.

To me, she's (vice)royalty.

 

[RC 212]

[member="Tmoxin Temi"] [member="Lily Kuhn"] [member="Tathra Khaeus"]

Agreed on all points.

I've seen nothing lately but MASSIVE disrespect among writers when interacting from other groups, whether in Discord or on the Board.

The Jen'ari invasions are 100% Fueled by OOC Hate. IC it makes no sense to invade someone more then five hexes away that holds three tiny hexes at the edge of the map. Especially if they've not fired the first shot.

I remember a campaign I wrote in back at the craftshop. Best invasion/Takeover ever. We wrote a story of us intentionally getting crushed. It was a desperate battle, last stand sort of thing, where we had to protect one critical checkpoint long enough toe evacuate and escape.

Great story came out of that.

Face it, people are being dicks to one another.

Major factions are just getting lazy, and unwilling to create stories with other factions. All for the reasons [member="Lily Kuhn"] mentioned , plus just general OOC hatred of certain writers because of IC actions.

Is that really fair to hate on someone OOC for what their character did IC?

Discord. I hate discord. It helps deliver snide, rude, ridiculous remarks at the speed much faster than PM's. It gives factions group-think, everyone is just following the popular guys or gal on the forums, and if they have a chitty attitude towards a person/group, it's just magnified as people jump on board the bandwagon.

Also if you spend all day talking chit about other writers and factions, and giving snide remarks, you aren't really contributing to the overall good vibes and collaboration this community says it's all about.

Which begs the question, are some people here to role-play or to treat this like a high-school popularity contest. Because if its the later, in my opinion you are part of a big problem corrupting what used to be an awesome friendly place.

Also another thing that's irritating is when folks just off hand dismiss your opinion, and indirectly state it dosn't matter. Especially when Staff members pop in and try to dismiss it offhand. Let the members debate openly and honestly please.

Props to [member="Irajah Ven"] for not throwing her Staff tag behind it to sway other folks to think like, but rather speaking her mind in a logical and sensible faction.

 

[RC 212]

[member="Tmoxin Temi"]

I understand that can be frustrating.

I someone is harassing you like that, I'd just out-write them as best I could and ignore it.

Or remind them it's a story, not a competition.

Or just block em if they don't stop harassing ya.

No one can "Wreck" you anyways.

I look at it like this. If you are a respectful writer to me, and take hits, as well as dish them out, I will soak up some of your attacks. Makes for fun story and battle-scars.

If folks come at me like a 13yr old kid trying to #LOLROFLSTOPMUBERKILL me in like one posts while #FORCEDODGINGSHIELDSHOLDING! everything I dish out, I'm just gonna return the favor.

 

[The End Narrator]

It's become too much of a map game, as opposed to the content within the map.

Side note, I also love the PVP aspect and have since I started.

Every single person on here who I dueled was always a delight, in one form or another.

 

[Gilamar Skirata]

The only goals left on the site are that of major factions.

I think this is one of the bigger issues on the site right now definitely. A member recently put forth an update proposal for a slight revamp/addition to Rebellions and I think that would really pump life into non-major faction play and by extension, pump more life into the site.

but when you have a story to tell, when you want to do something for most people their faction is the first place they look.

I think this is important too...While we are all here to write our characters' stories, they aren't in a vacuum by virtue of being here on this shared board/galaxy. ESPECIALLY if you're playing the map game. We work together or things will just get worse.

Over the last year especially I've seen too many MF staff and owners become frustrated because THEIR story isn't the one being told. If you're running a major faction, its not supposed to be there to stroke your egos. You run a MF to facilitate the cooperative storytelling of the board, your faction, and the map. Its not about US its about THEM.

 

[sabrina]

Okay might not be good from me, as I only just returned.
Though I did prefer pvp, being the deciding thing in invasions.
Though that was more on grounds, I knew where I stood, and not another person judging from afar.
I as found this a little off putting, as my english is not the best.
I did prefer having to work for things, as it meant I had to think about what I wanted, and how to get it.
Perhaps, and it is just an idea, to force factions to interact.
All doms, most have an element of another faction in.
To act as friendly opposition, if this is an issue.