Can Kylo Ren be redeemed? [Spoilers 4 TFA!]

[Farr Benisho]

I suppose the better way to phrase it would be: SHOULD Kylo Ren be redeemed.

In my opinion that's a big fat NO.

That's for a number of reasons. Number one on that list is he killed Han Solo! People like to come up with how Anakin killed the younglings and committed genocide and stood by while the Emperor had his way and was redeemed.

BUT, to my knowledge the only one he was depicted on screen killing that any audience member had any sort of MAJOR connection to was Ben Kenobi.

Yes it's awful all the jedi and younglings he killed, but it was never a character that has had the lasting impact and pop-culture status as Han Solo. Because before the prequels and Clone Wars, we only knew Obi-Wan as Ben Kenobi and he was technically only a major presence in New Hope.

So that is decades worth of built up love for this character, so I don't think the fans would take too kindly for Kylo showing up in like Episode 9 with a sob story and saying: "Yeah, sorry."

On to the other reason: We've had sympathetic villains throughout Star-Wars history. We've had 6 movies of Anakin's tragic tale. I really think we need to have a villain who isn't the puppet-master, be truly evil.

I think it would work as a breath of fresh air, and not a retread of Vader's redemption, and again I ask: Does Kylo REALLY deserve to be redeemed? Would the fanbase even accept that?

 

[Undin Jaii Kryze]

[member="Farr Benisho"]

First of all, I don't think Kylo should be redeemed, but since it's Disney, he probably will. And in the process he will most likely kill Luke, or we will see Luke die on-screen by old age/approaching Kylo and getting stabbed thus making all the nerds rage.

Also, I don't think Vader redeemed himself really, he just proceeded the Sith way. Two Sith, master and apprentice, apprentice kills master and becomes master.

 

[Matreya]

Read once a theory, and I kind of like the idea:

Kylo Ren is a good guy.

Luke had a troubled feeling that the Sith had returned, so they made a plan. Once enacted, there was no turning back however, and so Kylo has done some things he would not have thought he was going to.



But on the act of redemption, I am not sure if he deserves it. Will he get it though? Probably

 

[Pharazon Draken]

I tend to agree that there will be at least some kind of redemption story for him, but I have to agree [member="Farr Benisho"], for me at least, there is no coming back in my personal view of his character after killing Han. But depending on how the 'redemption' is handled, I think it could still be an interesting character arc for Kylo, as even with killing Han Solo I still like him as a villain. I would hope if they do try a redemption story that it is not so much an 'all is forgiven and everyone is happy' but more so even in spite of his atrocities, he acts when and where it counts in a similar but hopefully sufficiently distinct manner of Vader's sacrifice. Vader was only really redeemed in the eyes of Luke and Leia (I think) (clarified), the rebels and Ewoks were not gathered and crying at Vader's cremation after all.

Of course, I would like to him he just go completely off the deep end and rise and fall as a villain. But at this point his future story is rather moot point and could go wherever the writers want it.

 

[Ludolf Vaas]

If he is, that's going to be one awkward family reunion Thanksgiving.

*Luke, Leia, Chewie and Kylo sitting around the table in silence, Han Solo's seat conspicuously absent*

Kylo: "c-could you pass the gravy?"

 

[Taa Nul]

I don't really care either way. I just want Luke to kick his ass at least once before he potentially dies.

[member="Farr Benisho"]

 

[Wolf]

[member="Count Morcus"]

Kylo is the real protagonist. Lost to Rey in 7, then should lose to Luke in 8 and get his arm chopped off, and then comes back in 9 for his final triumph.

 

[Visser Chernykh]

I'd bet VIII will be full of tired cliches much like VII was. So yes, they probably will redeem him though it will be incredibly stupid. I just hope the Knights of Ren turn out at least somewhat awesome. They look really cool but we have no idea about them other than their Master being a school shooter-looking guy.

I really hope he goes down, unrepentant and evil. I also hope bad things happen to Mary Sue...I mean...Rey. But probably not.

 

[Wolf]

other than their Master being a school shooter-looking guy.

:lol:

I really hope he goes down, unrepentant and evil. I also hope bad things happen to Mary Sue...I mean...Rey. But probably not.

[member="Mael Ren"]
And yes, I'd like to think him killing Han actually did something, and the conflict is over, he goes full Dark Side, and becoming a proper villain. And then yes, he finally gets revenge on Rey and becomes someone actually menacing.

Of course this is just wishful thinking. More likely he will remain in emo mode until he is redeemed.

 

[Z'Zharen]

If he is redeemed...it'll probably mirror Vader's redemption. He'll help in defeating Snoke, but sacrifice himself in the process. Sad that the Solo legacy would end with him and possibly the Skywalkers as well if he has no cousins/siblings.

If he survives and redeems himself...that doesn't mean the galaxy will forgive him even if his mother or other main cast members do. If Vader survived the Battle of Endor, he would spend the rest of his life either in exile or imprisoned.

They could cop out and give him a ADUI, adam driving under the influence "of the darkside", or he was brainwashed, tortured into being Snoke's apprentice etc... I think he'll get his wish, he'll end up just like his grandfather ironically.

I would like to see a spin off what-if comic of Vader being redeemed and rebuilding the Jedi Order with Luke...Infinties comics just gave a bright white ending...

 

[Enyo Typhos]

I don't think he should. I already have issues with how 'redemption' is handled in Star Wars, but that's another matter. I think he should toughen up and become a proper villain after committing patricide and getting his butt handed to him. Ideally he should start thinking for himself instead of just being Snoke's attack dog and become a legit threat to Rey and the plucky rebels.

I wouldn't like a copout where his murderous activities are suddenly solely blamed on the Supreme Leader with the silly name or the dark side. Kylo made his choices, now he should follow through.


Then he can eventually die, without suddenly changing his alignment. Sadly, I think he'll stay emo and keep talking to a mask.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

He committed patricide, he chose to murder his father. For that alone he should have no forgiveness.

 

[GhostOfProtocol]

He killed Han, so? If Luke killed Han, would we forgive Luke? We'd all probably be quick to blame it on the darkside and he'd be redeemed all happy. Kylo is no different, he just needs to be handled different. He needs to be redeemed like Jacen at the end of Legacy, reaching out at the last second to warn his family of some danger before dying.

 

[Nima Tann]

He should be redeemed!

And then they should all get together and sing Disney songs under the rainbow of friendship

 

[Z'Zharen]

[member="Nima Tann"]

Don't be ridiculous....its a double rainbow of friendship!

 

[Wolf]

[member="Nima Tann"]

I can see it now, Leia troubled over whether she can forgive Kylo for killing Han, and then Kylo breaks out into a rendition of Hakuna Matata, and all is well.

 

[Samka Derith]

I seem to recall a writer saying one of the goals of the new trilogy was to have a villain who grew with the hero. So as Rey grows stronger and more heroic, Kylo too becomes stronger and more evil. I hope this is the case, it'll be a very interesting direction to go in as most antagonists (Vader included) don't change much from film to film like the protagonists do

 

[Visser Chernykh]

I think Vader does change but not so visibly. Palpatine is still the scheming EVIIIIILLLL MUAHAHAHAHA guy in V and VI. There's conflict in Dark Helmet and it begins to bubble to the surface even through the guise of the robot.

That was part of what made the Original Trilogy better than the Prequel version. I-III looked better by far, had cooler fights and such but lacked the story and character development. Besides, personally, I kinda liked the OT fights thought the PT fights were visually cool. Anyway.

I agree that George didn't handle the fall/redemption thing very well. He is a visionary with great ideas but he really doesn't do well with important details. You can see that from how he coaches the actors in the extra footage. A second year film student probably could've done at least as well, if not better.

Abrams was too interested in throwing in as many homages to the OT for real development. I'm glad he's gone back to doing Star Trek, tucking his tail between his legs and running away. He knows he screwed up but won't admit it.

Also, back to the KoR. Did you all see the concept drawings? They look friggin' cool. Even the guy who is in the trash can like Oscar the Grouch. I love the combination of military greatcoat and cloak they all wear. Plus the weapons look cool.

 

[Farr Benisho]

[member="Mael Ren"]

Finally, someone agrees with me that J.J. Abrams should've dialed back on the homages etc. I feel I'm the only one who thinks they did the original cast a disservice by having basically Luke, Leia and Han be such failures.

Don't get me wrong I loved TFA, but I feel it sorta ruins the ending of Return of the Jedi and nips any hope we had of awesome adventures and prosperity after RoTJ in the bud. And yeah the fights in PT were good, I enjoyed it for how it expanded the lore so much, but I always view the PT as a good story told extraordinarily poorly.

 

[Cassus Akovin]

Technically Vader shouldn't have been redeemed. And no, Leia has never forgiven Vader. He was at least partially response for the destruction of her homeworld and everyone she knew, as far as friends and family was concerned. Not to mention the countless off screen rebels and innocent civilians. He also killed literally countless Jedi, including Obi-Wan "Ben" Kenobi, and whole classes of younglings, without mercy. Suddenly he discovers he has a son and he goes, "huh, maybe I shouldn't be so evil? Might look bad to my kid... gah! But this Emperor gig, he's gunna be real pissed if I try and quit, drats. Guess I gotta turn my kid to the dark side and rule the galaxy in that old geezers place! That'll teach him!". Eventually he comes to his senses and realizes anarchy is better than the Emperor's rule, and basically tosses him down an elevator shaft at his own peril to save ONE LIFE. Alright, maybe a little more than that since the Emperor was a horrendously evil person who had killed far more than Vader indirectly, and would continue to do so long after Vader perished (clone hopping anyone?). Even still, he was redeemed only because he killed a person worse than he was to save his son (which, although a protective and admirable reason, is still a selfish one). Somehow one's alignment is determined by who ya kill, and less to do with the atonement of your past actions.

Kylo killed his own father, off-screen his entire Jedi class with a bunch of his groupies, as well as ordering the death of a village (which was probably not his first time doing that). To be blunt, so far as we know, that's the extent of his crimes. Although he was involved with the people who created the Star Killer that killed probably trillions of lives in an instant, it didn't seem he had any direct authority over it. If Kylo hadn't been there it wouldn't have made a difference.

So despite his murders ranking up there in the many dozens (one of them being notably his own father)... it isn't the hundreds, thousands, or billions that Vader was responsibly for depending on how you look at it.

Thus if we look at this in the star wars logic that if he kills the right person in some self-sacrificial manner, he's already in the clear! On the path of redemption and only in his first movie!

... assuming foolishly he does not do anything worse than Vader. Which seems unlikely if Disney is trying to grow a villain side-by-side with a hero.


I think the path Disney will take for our villain, is not redemption, but mercy. Something will happen to Kylo, that will make all hope of redemption absolutely irretrievable, he will be a worse monster than Vader ever was... but in the end when he's lying in the dirt defeated, a scrap of his former self as a boy will escape... the fear, the loneliness, the grief.

Rey (or a hero associated with her), will do the noble thing and offer mercy in the form of a lifetime of asylum to regret everything that he's done, since I don't think they would make a movie about a mercy killing.