L Admin
I've never said "get rid of the names". Nothing I said removes them entirely from the conversation or the community.Camellia Swift said:
I only wish a level playing field and a reduced emphasis on their importance.
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Canon Company Check ins --- A question
- Thread starter Danger Arceneau
- Start date
I only wish a level playing field and a reduced emphasis on their importance.
L Admin
Tefka said:
Camellia Swift
Camellia
[member="Tefka"]
But that is mostly my point, they are important. Just like Coruscant is important or Korriban or Hoth. They're iconic locations and tangible essences of the lore people can acquire or use. Having a product from said company, or a faction gaining control of it, or another faction destroying its facilities, all these things are important for any big company, but even canon companies kept small will feel important because they're locations we know about.
Kuat Drive Yards are such an important piece of Kuat as a world, the rings around the world make Kuat as an example.
I'm against the idea of just saying canon company holders just have names and not the actual companies. It goes against what the people running them and the people buying from them having been roleplaying and I don't see the harm that makes thing an unlevel playing field. I don't see any particular canon company getting an advantage over everyone else unless it was made Tier 4 from the start and that's not something we should punish others for now.
I say just go with sticking them as Tier 2 with everyone else when they start.
But that is mostly my point, they are important. Just like Coruscant is important or Korriban or Hoth. They're iconic locations and tangible essences of the lore people can acquire or use. Having a product from said company, or a faction gaining control of it, or another faction destroying its facilities, all these things are important for any big company, but even canon companies kept small will feel important because they're locations we know about.
Kuat Drive Yards are such an important piece of Kuat as a world, the rings around the world make Kuat as an example.
I'm against the idea of just saying canon company holders just have names and not the actual companies. It goes against what the people running them and the people buying from them having been roleplaying and I don't see the harm that makes thing an unlevel playing field. I don't see any particular canon company getting an advantage over everyone else unless it was made Tier 4 from the start and that's not something we should punish others for now.
I say just go with sticking them as Tier 2 with everyone else when they start.
Camellia Swift
Camellia
I apologize if it sounds like I'm being antagonistic and/or stubborn on this. I'm just trying to give the opposing point of view.
I mostly don't see the harm that a few of you seem to.
However, I can understand that others may feel differently. If the decision is reached the admin think this should change though, I do think it should be put out there that the players themselves likely have a good stake in these matters.
I mostly don't see the harm that a few of you seem to.
However, I can understand that others may feel differently. If the decision is reached the admin think this should change though, I do think it should be put out there that the players themselves likely have a good stake in these matters.
The Widow
It makes sense if it's just the name. We had a 400 year darkness after all.
I'm down for it and to start at tier 2.
So are we saying that we won't don't do check ins, and the only time Someone checks if a canon company name is free is when a member wants to try and name claim?
Would that be done in an actual company submission or where would that member go to inquire?
I'm down for it and to start at tier 2.
So are we saying that we won't don't do check ins, and the only time Someone checks if a canon company name is free is when a member wants to try and name claim?
Would that be done in an actual company submission or where would that member go to inquire?
B E A C O N
I don't really understand how a company, regardless of how lucrative, could survive the site's plague and 400 years of darkness that literally ended any and all connections to canon, which is listed in the rules given to you at creation; no canon-crossovers. This should reach out to companies as well.
If you want to start that "canon" company at tier II, then go ahead and apply for it as tier two. But it should not be just awarded tier II for the sole reason being that you now own a company with the name of one that was once used in canon. 400 years of plagues, lack of finances, and total loss of all history from before that point should completely wipe out companies if it even kept us in the dark as far as history goes for 400 years.
--
That being my reasoning for agreeing with Tefka on his stance with "canon" companies.
[member="Tefka"], [member="Danger Arceneau"], [member="Noah Corek"], [member="Camellia Swift"], [member="Ordo"], [member="Darth Janus"], [member="Raziel"]
Edit: Though I do believe it is a bit late to be thinking that way at this point.
If you want to start that "canon" company at tier II, then go ahead and apply for it as tier two. But it should not be just awarded tier II for the sole reason being that you now own a company with the name of one that was once used in canon. 400 years of plagues, lack of finances, and total loss of all history from before that point should completely wipe out companies if it even kept us in the dark as far as history goes for 400 years.
--
That being my reasoning for agreeing with Tefka on his stance with "canon" companies.
[member="Tefka"], [member="Danger Arceneau"], [member="Noah Corek"], [member="Camellia Swift"], [member="Ordo"], [member="Darth Janus"], [member="Raziel"]
Edit: Though I do believe it is a bit late to be thinking that way at this point.
Raziel
Dark Jedi Spymaster
That is a very good question. You could always get around it with the "Budweiser" and "Budweiser budvar" example. The new company needs a slightly different take on the name? When the old person comes back they need to take a new name however, but could restablish control of their old assets unless they've been taken in legit RP?Danger Arceneau said:
Actually that might just be confusing for people who are trying to work out which tech is owned by who.
We also have the issue of people wanting to roleplay unique weapons etc that they've come up with, without going through the tedium of making and running a company. This has often been done by making a sub and tagging it with a canon company not owned.
This reinforces the existence of old canon companies.
Should we:
a ) encourage people to go to company owners and ask to sub tech in their name?
b ) have a few generic (ACME inc) companies who are widespread and people can sub their tech through?
War
A company can last hundreds of years and still be small. Canon, non-canon, who cares. It's a RP device not life. Level the field and enjoy the ride or walk away. You can RP anything within the rules so the difference it really makes is non-existent.
The Widow
Raziel said:
Hmm... then again, if they have to drop tiers anyways that means that they are limited on what they can do off the get go.
For example, if the owner of Santhe went inactive, then another person took the name --- OH wait!!!
Does this mean that the - new - writer who takes up the business name also has to drop 3 tiers? So they don't get a company at tier 6 off the get go too? ( to show the loss of an old owner and things of that nature)
a ) encourage people to go to company owners and ask to sub tech in their name?
I'd like to encourage writers to go to current company owners to buy things and all that jazz.
b ) have a few generic (ACME inc) companies who are widespread and people can sub their tech through?
But I can see the neat thing of having an ACME NPC company.
Raziel
Dark Jedi Spymaster
You've lost me, sorry!Danger Arceneau said:
The Widow
[member="Raziel"] SORRY Raz!
[member="Darth Janus"]
[member="Tefka"]
Okay
Say this is Santhe Corp a Tier 6 Company ( if i remember correctly ) --- Sasha Santhe goes inactive for 90 days.
Luke Skyburner wants to own Santhe Corp, so he talks to the RPJ's to find out when Sasha was last rping / logged on. They give him the go ahead to put in a sub for the company to claim the name.
Luke Sky burner puts in a NEW Company Sub for "Santhe Corp" --- does he
Sasha comes back a month later -- see's Santhe Corp belongs to someone else. What happens to all of his tech subs that he himself submitted for "Santhe corp?"
And if he comes in to rename it to " Sashas's Corp" --- he has to drop three tiers, so start at tier 3. But at tier three shipyards can only produce to a certain size.
Does it --
See what I mean?
[member="Darth Janus"]
[member="Tefka"]
Okay
Say this is Santhe Corp a Tier 6 Company ( if i remember correctly ) --- Sasha Santhe goes inactive for 90 days.
Luke Skyburner wants to own Santhe Corp, so he talks to the RPJ's to find out when Sasha was last rping / logged on. They give him the go ahead to put in a sub for the company to claim the name.
Luke Sky burner puts in a NEW Company Sub for "Santhe Corp" --- does he
- A. resub it as the old tier Sasha Santhe made Santhe Corp grow to ( "Tier 6" ) or
- B. does he do it as a full new company sub for Santhe Corp at tier "2" ?
Sasha comes back a month later -- see's Santhe Corp belongs to someone else. What happens to all of his tech subs that he himself submitted for "Santhe corp?"
And if he comes in to rename it to " Sashas's Corp" --- he has to drop three tiers, so start at tier 3. But at tier three shipyards can only produce to a certain size.
Does it --
- A. Stay with the "Santhe Corp" name
- B. Stay property of the Old Writer who submitted it so he can simply relabel to the new company. And if it does stay with the old company, then that means he has to work at it again to rise in tiers so he can make the larger ships --- because he won't actually have the IC shipyards for it.
See what I mean?
Camellia Swift
Camellia
Ok its becoming clear that everyone has their eyes on this so I'll just state again I think this is a bad idea. This is double taking on what people have already rped and more, and I am still of the mind the harm in canon companies doesn't exist and that for the same reasons you're stating you're making the stance we shouldn't have any canon advantages on site for people to use. Which includes creatures and worlds.
I'm just going to make the request respectfully we do involve the board or at the very least company owners both canon and non-canon and hear what they think. I especially think if the company owners have no problem, especially the non-canon ones, that the problem has been blown out of proportions.
I mean for example you brought up the Santh corp. Which if I recall went through a long process of ensuring they acquired Seinar and put the work in the keep an IC copyright on TIE fighters because it was Seinar, not because they shared the name. A decision like this invalidates rps like those that have treated canon companies like canon companies. This decision might have been great early on with the site or before people got too deep in, but this is too far too late to backtrack on everyone's work I think.
I'm just going to make the request respectfully we do involve the board or at the very least company owners both canon and non-canon and hear what they think. I especially think if the company owners have no problem, especially the non-canon ones, that the problem has been blown out of proportions.
I mean for example you brought up the Santh corp. Which if I recall went through a long process of ensuring they acquired Seinar and put the work in the keep an IC copyright on TIE fighters because it was Seinar, not because they shared the name. A decision like this invalidates rps like those that have treated canon companies like canon companies. This decision might have been great early on with the site or before people got too deep in, but this is too far too late to backtrack on everyone's work I think.
L Admin
Camelia, you may start this as a topic of discussion in a new thread in the Role—play Discussion forum.
Just don't mention my involvement whatsoever. It tends to skew results.
Just don't mention my involvement whatsoever. It tends to skew results.
Camellia Swift
Camellia
[member="Tefka"]
Alright that sounds reasonable. But won't they end up assuming that you have some hand in the matter unless I say its strictly us judges?
I'll just say there's been some talk among those in the factory on altering canon companies to be in name only, though it would not effect their current tier or products, just remove their ties to the canon companies history.
Does this sound reasonable? If so I'll post what I have below.
Hello members of Chaos!
So there has been some discussion going on lately in the factory over the last few days regarding canon companies. The discussion has mainly revolved around whether we should remove canon companies or leave them be with some added rules to their creation and operation. The idea basically being that Canon Companies would no longer exist, companies out there now would simply be sharing their name. This would not affect their Tier status now or their products they've made, just eliminate their ties to the actual canon company. Now setting aside the reasoning for now for why we feel we should go with either way I was asked to bring this discussion forward to the member base and get their opinions on the matter.
How does everyone feel about canon companies? Do they give an unequal opportunity for abuse compared to other companies? Are they too important? Do they fit in considering we still have canon worlds and species? Does everyone enjoy having canon companies around? Do you feel they add to the story of the site or world? Are they just there and its not really a big deal either way? What does everyone think?
Please only vote with your writer account.
And then have a Poll for the thread:
Alright that sounds reasonable. But won't they end up assuming that you have some hand in the matter unless I say its strictly us judges?
I'll just say there's been some talk among those in the factory on altering canon companies to be in name only, though it would not effect their current tier or products, just remove their ties to the canon companies history.
Does this sound reasonable? If so I'll post what I have below.
Hello members of Chaos!
So there has been some discussion going on lately in the factory over the last few days regarding canon companies. The discussion has mainly revolved around whether we should remove canon companies or leave them be with some added rules to their creation and operation. The idea basically being that Canon Companies would no longer exist, companies out there now would simply be sharing their name. This would not affect their Tier status now or their products they've made, just eliminate their ties to the actual canon company. Now setting aside the reasoning for now for why we feel we should go with either way I was asked to bring this discussion forward to the member base and get their opinions on the matter.
How does everyone feel about canon companies? Do they give an unequal opportunity for abuse compared to other companies? Are they too important? Do they fit in considering we still have canon worlds and species? Does everyone enjoy having canon companies around? Do you feel they add to the story of the site or world? Are they just there and its not really a big deal either way? What does everyone think?
Please only vote with your writer account.
And then have a Poll for the thread:
- Remove Canon Companies and leave the names
- Leave canon companies as they are
- Add more restrictions to canon companies
- Have no problem either way
Camellia Swift
Camellia
Is there anything else there anyone wants me to add or take away?
L Admin
I don't really mind how you do it so long as my original requests are honored.
And don't wait for others to chime in. We have a deadline. Push forward.
And don't wait for others to chime in. We have a deadline. Push forward.
Camellia Swift
Camellia
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/37934-the-topic-of-canon-companies/
Done then.
As requested your involvement has been left out and I left it simple and hopefully without inflection toward either end of the discussion.
Done then.
As requested your involvement has been left out and I left it simple and hopefully without inflection toward either end of the discussion.
B E A C O N
It appears that [member="Camellia Swift"]'s poll has them in agreement (72.41% with 21 votes to that option) with keeping canon companies as they are.
[member="Tefka"]
[member="Tefka"]
Camellia Swift
Camellia
[member="Silara Vantai"]
What I was surprised was I expected the non-canon company owners to be against, most people not to care, and canon company owners to be the major players against.
However, we have mostly non-canon company owners and regular members against the change. 2 Canon company owners for a change, and only 1 person so far who doesn't care. With 3 others taking a middle ground with adding a few more restrictions but otherwise leaving canon companies be.
What I was surprised was I expected the non-canon company owners to be against, most people not to care, and canon company owners to be the major players against.
However, we have mostly non-canon company owners and regular members against the change. 2 Canon company owners for a change, and only 1 person so far who doesn't care. With 3 others taking a middle ground with adding a few more restrictions but otherwise leaving canon companies be.
B E A C O N
Most people probably see this as being a "too late" move, as it should have been something instated from the get-go. (Not that I'm saying this is an issue that needs to be resolved, it's just this decision is one that should be made earlier in the board's age, not this late in the game so to speak.)Camellia Swift said:
I'm sure they also think all those canon companies will disappear and need to be re-created or something, and I'm fairly certain most people didn't even read your post under the poll. On the other hand, it's still a 21 vote against an 8 vote either for changes in the least or absolute change or being okay with the changes.
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