Catalyst for the Cold War

[Jerek Zenduu]

I don't think a skirmish is going to do it. No one gives a poodoo about skirmishes. Case in point: most of the recent skirmishes that have died out within a couple pages.

An invasion not only puts a real prize on the line, but it carries a strict timeline with it. Invasions gets things done. Skirmishes are easily ignorable and can fizzle out all too quickly. What assurances do we have that both sides will maintain their end during a skirmish? Absolutely none. An invasion takes care of this, in more ways than one.

 

[Geneviève Lasedri]

To present my complete and honest opinion:

A skirmish is actually incredibly anticlimactic in Chaos terms. You can rave and promote the 'skirmish of the century' all you want, but it will never ever ever carry the weight of an invasion. Invasions go on for weeks, many topping 20+ pages of posts. There's a sense of urgency, quite obviously. Whereas we've seen with skirmish upon skirmish in the past, players tend to fade out (and the Sith in particular, oddly enough) and the battle becomes a couple of players posting their duel until they realize they're alone now and get bored as well.

Heck, the Republic's recent orbital bombardment of Anaxes' military installments garnered not ONE post from opposition. Sure, that sounds strategically advantageous for us if we have no opposition, but A.) what fun is that? and B.) how is that going to give the effect of a monstrous, crippling battle?

The only way to attract their people (and many of our own) and get them to commit is to attack something dear to them. The Rebels showed up at Coruscant just a few weeks ago and immediately received opposition of the most ludicrous of varieties. They care about worlds and extra-valuable toys.

Sounds like a tangent perhaps. But this is the word of experience. Fool me once...


One last note, to put things into perspective: Why the heck would the Republic be sitting on its haunches now? The wolf has been scratching at the door. We have no reason to trust the Sith ICly, and we honestly should have revenge (as un-Jedi-like as that may be) on our minds like an ACME anvil. The only incentive for cold war on our end is to suffer incredible casualty counts.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

Because our previous 10 campaigns against the One Sith went so well...?

 

[Cecily Demici]

At the end of the day, its a collaborative thing though. If the OS doesnt want it to be an invasion, it will come off as sort of... almost a "typical" GR behavior of our way or the highway.

The OS cant refuse an invasion, but they can refuse to deny terms for a Cold War. So lets make sure they are receptive to an invasion before we push them away.

 

[Cecily Demici]

Also [member="Valiens Nantaris"] and all the logics

 

[Turin Val Kur]

Did I hear Jedi Strike team?

EDIT:

I think people get the wrong idea about skirmishes because more often than not the desired effect is something that the opposing side dislikes.

However, in looking for a compromising Catalyst a skirmish could easily be used as a plot point. While an invasion would be MOST beneficial (should we win) in the long run, a Skirmish where, even if we don't take Isolda (for whatever reason) we could also clear out the other lesser priests of Vahl and maybe wound her in a way that could "tip the tide" in our favor even if just a little.

 

[Jerek Zenduu]

At the end of the day, its a collaborative thing though. If the OS doesnt want it to be an invasion, it will come off as sort of... almost a "typical" GR behavior of our way or the highway.

The OS cant refuse an invasion, but they can refuse to deny terms for a Cold War. So lets make sure they are receptive to an invasion before we push them away.

Wait, I thought the Cold War was the OS's idea. Didn't they approach us?

They don't get something for nothing.

We simply present this as terms. They want a cold war, this is how they get it. A skirmish doesn't work, only an invasion will do. Is this "our way or the highway?" Umm, no, this is called negotiation. They want something, we want something. Our negotiators need to grow a backbone and stand up for the GR for a change.

 

[Geneviève Lasedri]

0-10 invasion record and loss of half our territory is totally 'my way or the highway'.

Damn Republic. So pushy.

 

[Aela Talith]

1-9

Republic won Carida.

Also if you guys want to see what a properly organized Skirmish with backing from two major factions looks like, here is Roche. It has nothing more than a fancy prefix(which you guys could easily ask staff for or just use the Campaign tag if Skirmish offends you so much), in essence it is a skirmish. There were rewards and detraction, but those are easily replicated by FA's of both factions.

Don't say that invasions are the only thing that matter, because its only that way if you make them that way.

 

[Geneviève Lasedri]

Roche: July 10, 2013 - July 18, 2013

Worthy of consideration. But the board was a completely different animal back then.


Anyway... Let it be known that there were no negotiations about invasion or no invasion after Netherworld. Whether the OS cared about cold war back then or not, they still refused any negotiation on our end and went ahead with an invasion instead of embracing the perfect cold war catalyst in the Netherworld backstory.

The fact that we're even deliberating on this shows a different sort of... character.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

I am against the cold war idea, but I will follow suit of course.

Skirmishes with a pre set ending is also a bit uninteresting. Those kinda things work better for "clean stories" written by one side. Again just IMO.

If there is going to be an invasion - Invade courocant. Its there for the taking!

 

[RC 212]

I'm against the cold war. I think the Republic striking back again and again will gain us a lot of members. We can keep the Sith tied up and gain territory. I have been watching how this faction has been treated and honestly they have been using gimmicks and ruthless tactics.

We need to get out of the mindset of defense, or else this faction will continue to bleed uninterested members, and when the time comes, it will collapse, or the Sith will take all your planets guys.

My two cents, cold war idea makes no sense to me. They refuse to participate in ANY skirmish that's not an invasion. Believe me, I've tried with other chars and groups to attack. Invasion is the only way to make them bite, get the Republic in the spotlight and build us up.

 

[Cecily Demici]

If we always have skirmishes that are bad, then maybe we just aren't good at military engagement if we are failing a skirmishes, failing at invasions, and even failing at dominions right now.

I'm sorry, but how many people advocating for an invasion are in an unfinished dominion right now? C'mon people. This is just sooo incredibly frustrating when no one seems to see the bigger picture or the bigger problem within the GR and no one is interested in taking a breather to solve it.

We are crumbling into the sea, so why is the solution to just go and keep pushing us closer to the cliffs edge by fatiguing our members on useless attempts to invade? Why is it just so darned hard to stop all the fighting and the madness and just enjoy role playing with each other?

Unless you are able to tell me you are 90-100% certain that this proposed invasion would be a victory, I'm just not okay with another invasion right now personally.

 

[Corvus Raaf]

I have remained quiet on this whole topic until now, but felt it was time to share my thoughts...

The Faction has voted on a Cold War and decided it wants to press ahead, so that debate has gone.

What hasn't gone (IMHO) is what precisely a Cold War means. I've asked in another thread for what was agreed between the OS and GR FAs before we started to vote - given we made a collective and binding decision and I still don't know precisely what we voted for. Cold War is just a term and means different things to different people.

But this thread is about a Catalyst? So, here is input as requested*:

1. A pre-determined outcome to a Skirmish doesn't feel very IC to me. Deciding up front we capture Darth X feels like someone has taken pity on the GR. It's no victory if you're gifted the capture

2. If this is the outcome, is it a real capture? Can we strip this character of the Force? Or do we simply hand them back after x months/weeks? If the latter, all that is denied is a lack of posting for a relatively inactive character. Or a story for them...

3. So I am entirely ambivalent about a Skirmish if it's just to get to point B. I'll just wait for us to get to B. Other than a chance for a duel, what is the purpose? And given in almost 5,000 posts Corvus has yet to hit a Sith in an Invasion with her saber**, I'm not sure of the value of a duel to be honest

*and these are opinions, so please don't tell me they're wrong. You may have a different view to me, but neither of us will be incorrect
**OK, that one is a fact

 

[Jerek Zenduu]

[member="Corvus Raaf"]

What do you think about an invasion, then?

 

[Corvus Raaf]

[member="Corvus Raaf"]

What do you think about an invasion, then?

As a catalyst it makes more sense as there is something tangible to play for. The Cold War could be the outcome either way. And it feels less 'stage-managed' to me.

 

[RC 212]

Heres a thought.

Our member base is next to nothing. The Sith have superiority in numbers. So in reality no matter what we do, we wont gain any ground, until we can get our members to stay and atually be interested.

The Sith have toys, and Vong. Two very unique draws, as well as sevral subfactions for PC's to chose from.

We have a handful of Jedi, Senators, and a Few Fleeters. Looks like two Army PC's and almost no pilots.

Some-things gotta give. I have been reading a little on their board. I think they just intend to speed dominion everything. They have the numbers to do it too. So while we sit back and maybe write a few stories, they take the other half of the galaxy.

We need something unique, some kind of draw. Maybe a Subfaction of the Jedi Order? More Pilots? I can't be sure.

Have we ever considered re branding. Making the New Republic?

 

[Ellie Mors]

The Sith have toys, and Vong.

If the issue is that there isn't some incentive for Republic members to utilize that is provided by the faction, perhaps such should be addressed? I would be more than happy to make toys for people, I practically live in the factory.

 

[RC 212]

[member="Braith"]

Might actually be a great idea. I mean people are kinda tired of the same cliche thing too I think. Te Sith have rebranded after the first fall. The Republic held on forever and ever. Factions have a point where you either got to re brand or fade away.

Give people something new and exciting. I mean look at OP, once the most powerful faction on the board. Now reduced to minor. Why? Lack of interest, and their best writers left.

The LoTF. Powerhouse when I helped found it. Key writers left, the faction dragged on until finally being disbanded.

I could name them all. Red Ravens, Black Suns, Hutt Cartel, ASA, CIS.

They all failed to keep their key writers engaged.

Ok now I'm slamming but I don’t really see any incentive to play a Republic character. When you put up missions or threads up, they die out. We can't finish a dominion, they die out. Our history is largely forgotten or non-existent. New writers come through here everyday, and then end up gravitating to Silvers or elsewhere.

You have to break it down. What can we do to change? Can we engage more Rogue Jedi? Can we reform the Military into a single entity? Can we make a subfaction that's really fun and attractive? Say add Witches of Dathomir in here?

Who knows, you gotta decided that though.

Sorry Braith, meant for everyone, I got rambling.

 

[Cecily Demici]

[member="Vassara Raxis"]

I have definitely been working on rebranding, but with all change I think this too would meet a great amount of resistance.

We need a make-over. Though I just realized we have gotten off topic, so lets all get back to what the catalyst of the Cold War should be and revisit the idea of rebranding the GR in a new thread?