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A serious make over. Delete the millions of threads and crazy subforums. Put all OOC in one section and IC in one section. Yesterday I saw a writer exclaim they had never visited mission control!
Keep the Jedi as a Subfaction. Merge the military, Keep the GRIM,
You also have a Navigation link that goes to nowhere. It's very confusing. Do we really need a pre codex and pre factory? Cant we just smash both those together?
Can we get a third entity in here? something Unique like the Jal'Shey Order or a freer version of the Jedi Order that can conduct battle? No insult, but playing straight Jedi Old school is now a Niche interest.
Just reiterating because I edited my last post, let's create a new topic geared toward re-branding and revisit the subject there to avoid derailing this one too much.
In any case, I think capturing Isolda would be fun and interesting, and I will echo that an invasion is probably a bit more likely to drum up hype and motivate people than a skirmish, but I also think an invasion would be too time-consuming for both negotiations and for the actual content. Yes, two weeks or something similar is grand for the lifespan of a thread, but most invasions I've seen and taken part in have too much focus placed on multiple objectives than one plan. If this ends up being an invasion, I highly suggest trying to limit the objectives or come up with a terms to keep it to two conflicts, one being a largely Pyrrhic assault on the ground/air, the other being a strike team designated specifically to take out or capture Isolda.
That being said, the invasion would have to occur on Tython, it is the only place she ever really goes - I don't think shes participated in an invasion for quite a long time with that character, and she does have a nice tower to sit in on that rock.
Wait, I thought the Cold War was the OS's idea. Didn't they approach us?
They don't get something for nothing.
We simply present this as terms. They want a cold war, this is how they get it. A skirmish doesn't work, only an invasion will do. Is this "our way or the highway?" Umm, no, this is called negotiation. They want something, we want something. Our negotiators need to grow a backbone and stand up for the GR for a change.
The only reason the One Sith came to the Republic with this proposal is because the Republic has had its ass kicked back and forth across the map for an entire year. They are being generous offering you guys a way out of the embarrassing circle of getting your teeth kicked in time and time again.
You guys keep pushing this mindset that you are doing the One Sith a favor by accepting a Cold War when in reality the only faction that really needs a break is the Republic. So please stop this mindless haggling about what makes sense ICly, because at the end of the day the One Sith ain't gonna bend over backwards to give you guys a break.
[member="Khaleel Malvern"]
That not correct. Various people tell us that we think more of ourselves then we are. But in reality we are all very aware that we are fighting loss over loss. '
The only ones complaining are people who dont play their GR characters so....
@GR staff
There is nothing wrong with being a faction that looses. The GR might even be eradicated, fine. But do not change the core values of the faction to start winning because what makes the GR interesting is that it is trying to stand for the "good alignments" in chaos. I know its not totaly true and there are many gray areas.
However, if the GR starts to bend this it will not be as interesting.
The OS can do whatever they want because everyone loves to be sith/dark sider (including myself), it will always be like that.
But trying to mimic that in a slightly less dark fashion is not the way to go.
In short - dont make this more complicated then it is - its writing and its fun as long as we have roles to fill, regardless of side
IMO.
I will remind everyone now, before this gets out of hand that any disrespectful communication of any kind will not be tolerated and will be SWIFTLY delt with.
So consider all future posts here very very carefully.
No one has expressed much interest in number three:
Get large group of major factions to sign on to a grand alliance and pledge to collectively assault the OS (while we cant actually do this OOC without their permission, similarly to NATO and Russia, it might scare them IC
But personally, I think this is a suberb idea which also creates RP between factions which is a great way to advance a personal storyline, meet new characters and help the Faction.
There is also no reason, a high-ranking Sith couldn't be captured and the above take place as a two-pronged approach. My only concern is that Darth Isolda is a figurehead, but not very active IC. The newer OS members haven't really seen her in action and therefore may not feel as strong of a bond.
The following spoiler is a rant. I felt I needed to write it because it was prudent. It only tangentially relates to the thread at hand, which is why I put it aside. Read at will, however, the remainder of the post will be devoted to the topic.
I'm pretty tired of "discussing" things. We go on jabbering for weeks about changes that should happen, we end up disagreeing on some minute detail because it seems so important to us at the time and then the fallout from that strife ends up canning the whole project. I honestly can't remember the last time we agreed on something unanimously as a faction. That's pretty sad.
We can flap our gums all we want, but are we actually capable of making a unified decision? We still haven't completely agreed that a cold war is a thing that everyone in the faction is going to support, whether or not a vote was cast; a vote without clear support one way or the other mind you. If we don't have the capacity to make a decision, we fail. We will never accomplish anything IC, and we will never be able to work together OOC. That is reality folks.
I would love to find one thing that we can agree on. Even if that one thing is moronic and trivial, just to have one opinion that we can unilaterally say "Yes, I support this," would be a relief beyond words at this point.
In attempting to be as clear, concise, and critical in order to achieve an actual end to this discussion, I'm not sure that the Republic is capable of doing anything on our end to make the Sith halt their advance ICly. We are facing an enemy (the Sith are our IC enemy, this is fact not an opinion, their writers are our friends and comrades in creativity but their characters are bloody evil and that makes them, their characters, the bad guys, don't sugar coat it) that is ruthless to the core (that's a galactic map joke). They don't care about slaughtering millions to get what they want. They seem to be having a grand ol' time of it at the moment. So why stop?
I think that is a question the Sith would need to answer, more than we do. Not because they're being nice to us and offering not to "kick our ass anymore," but because their story is their choice, not ours. And for the record, I support the idea of a Cold War because it could be an interesting plot avenue for stories as long as a viable solution to why there would be one can be found. If the only motivation the Sith have for this is to not "kick our ass anymore," I'm out. I don't want pity and cheap handouts for a game I play where I don't care who wins or loses.
Now, truthfully, I am unaware of the significance of Darth Isolda to the Sith faction. But if I were a big, bad, meanie, I don't think I would stop killing people to get that person back. After all, one whole tenet of the Sith doctrine is to kill the Master once after surpassing them (even if that's not how this Sith faction works). If the purpose is to show that one leader's weakness, wouldn't the Sith retaliate in full to make sure the Republic knew that even though that one person might be weak, the rest of them aren't? That's how the alpha male reacts to the one challenging their dominion. Am I wrong in this? What would the Sith be lacking that they can't immediately compensate for?
Let's be historical with the Sith. They lose a particularly charismatic leader. What happens after that? They either strike out at everything around them regardless of what it is. Or they devolve to in-fighting and self-destruct rather pitifully within moments, usually while one or two of the more cunning of them run off to hiding somewhere. At the moment, we have a Sith faction that is incredibly focused and goal-oriented. Do we really think that the latter will happen? Even if the power vacuum was strong enough to do so, do you think the Sith faction would agree to what would likely be the inevitable downfall of their faction? So then, logically speaking, it would be the former.
On top of those IC reasons, as was discussed in the invasion thread not so long ago, deciding outcomes prior to the fact in order to get us to a specific goal is pretty lame. Saying that Darth Isolda is going to be captured ahead of time, no matter how well written, prior to whatever-label-we-decide-to-give-the-thing-we-seem-incapable-of-bickering-needlessly-over, will be a mechanical solution at best. It won't matter how well written it is, it will be contrived and obvious and, frankly, boring.
Short of having a weapon of mass destruction (which is never going to happen), I fail to see anything that would cause the Sith pause from an IC perspective ... unless there was something for them to gain by not killing us.
At which point, and this is my vote for why a Cold War could exist, a diplomatic solution would be the only viable option, and we would need someone from the Sith to explain to us what that oh-so-special reason was. If they can't come up with something, or no one can explain how removing Darth Isolda won't either create a power vacuum or cause the Sith to immediately retaliate, then either another option needs to be considered, or this idea, in my opinion, should be scrapped.
I think that is a question the Sith would need to answer, more than we do. Not because they're being nice to us and offering not to "kick our ass anymore," but because their story is their choice, not ours. And for the record, I support the idea of a Cold War because it could be an interesting plot avenue for stories as long as a viable solution to why there would be one can be found. If the only motivation the Sith have for this is to not "kick our ass anymore," I'm out. I don't want pity and cheap handouts for a game I play where I don't care who wins or loses.
This. There's absolutely no point in continuing with the GR if the One Sith's overture is just that hollow. If the suggestion is simply that the GR bend over and take it, then I shall pack my bags and find some stories elsewhere.
[member="Khaleel Malvern"]
If that's true, then I seriously fear for the future of Chaos. If a faction has lost sight of the ideals of collaborative writing, emphasis on the collaborative part, then this whole community is sunk.
Our member base is next to nothing. The Sith have superiority in numbers. So in reality no matter what we do, we wont gain any ground, until we can get our members to stay and atually be interested.
The Sith have toys, and Vong. Two very unique draws, as well as sevral subfactions for PC's to chose from.
We have a handful of Jedi, Senators, and a Few Fleeters. Looks like two Army PC's and almost no pilots.
Some-things gotta give. I have been reading a little on their board. I think they just intend to speed dominion everything. They have the numbers to do it too. So while we sit back and maybe write a few stories, they take the other half of the galaxy.
We need something unique, some kind of draw. Maybe a Subfaction of the Jedi Order? More Pilots? I can't be sure.
Have we ever considered re branding. Making the New Republic?
We actually have more people than the OS. And more diverse people to boot.
We have people interested in playing pilots. The fact is that the Sith don't and don't want to even allow starfighters in invasions, which greatly discourages Republic players from joining a military sect that is handwaved to have little effect on the battlefield and no rivals whatsoever.
Actually! That goes for the majority of our military and NFU combatants. Go figure.
If you build it, they will come. But no one on the 'other side' wants to help build it at all.
The only reason the One Sith came to the Republic with this proposal is because the Republic has had its ass kicked back and forth across the map for an entire year. They are being generous offering you guys a way out of the embarrassing circle of getting your teeth kicked in time and time again. You guys keep pushing this mindset that you are doing the One Sith a favor by accepting a Cold War when in reality the only faction that really needs a break is the Republic. So please stop this mindless haggling about what makes sense ICly, because at the end of the day the One Sith ain't gonna bend over backwards to give you guys a break.
I like how you don't actually contribute to the Republic but make sure to trash us in our own forums. Please refrain from posting further if you have nothing more constructive to say.
I like how you don't actually contribute to the Republic but make sure to trash us in our own forums. Please refrain from posting further if you have nothing more constructive to say.
Cold Wars are the breath before the Storm. Sit around debating whether or not to take the respite and maybe work on building up for something that can defeat the One Sith, or don't and go back to fighting them tooth and nail.
While your need to have a good IC cause for this is understandable — we are, after all, on a roleplaying site — I also feel this is worth mentioning, considering that it seems to be the crux of the problem.
Twice in the history of this "war" between the Republic and the One Sith, the two factions had agreed to a period of non-aggression; a period of no invasions. A cold war, in essence, even if it wasn't branded as such.
First was between the invasions of Alderaan and Manaan. Three months of OOC-driven peace, upheld without fault by both sides.
Second was between Kashyyyk and Telti. Two months, this time, also OOC-driven peace that was not broken until the grace period ran out.
Never once did the OS spend two weeks debating whether or not it made sense, ICly, for them to just stop attacking. They said yes, because the request had been made in earnest, and because this is a cooperative effort.
You are absolutely right. There's nothing stopping us from simply calling a truce OOCly as writers. As a cooperative effort between two groups of people, that would change the purpose of this altogether. Personally, having a break from invasions in general might be a welcome respite for me. I'm not much of a fan of PvP regardless, so when an invasion comes along, I essentially lose a good portion of my writing partners because of the time and effort commitment that an invasion requires.
So if this is an OOC break from invasions? Great, I'm all about it.
But if we call this a Cold War, that has IC implications. And for me personally, I won't be satisfied if those IC implications are just completely out of left field simply to serve an OOC purpose. There's a line there.
With the proposal of an OOC cease-fire having just been raised... and looking through EVERYTHING that has been said... at the end of the day an OOC cease-fire will cause the absolute least butt hurt.
After the OOC cease-fire, the OS can start engaging in espionage and the GR can just be like 'wtf no attack?' and then we engage in cold war tactics too. Boom, we have an IC cold war with absolutely 0 OOC drama.
The Faction has voted for a cold war, no matter how small the margin. We must now uphold their wishes to follow through. If the Faction cannot come up with a clear consensus on HOW to make a cold war happen, then decisions are going to have to be made eventually and my vote will always be for the route with the least drama for our Faction.
I would rather we just chalk it up to Chaos' typical "timey-wimey hand-wavium oh it's 3 years in the future now."
Like I stated before, simply having a OOC cease-fire should have no implications on the story whatsoever. To say that we are IC all of a sudden not fighting each other would make no sense at all. Whereas simply not having Invasions is much easier to retcon later on down the road.
We can take part in espionage/politico/skirmishes/use other factions as tools for war/etc. ad nauseum missions at any point in time. Being "in a Cold War" doesn't change that. In fact, if this were an OOC cease-fire, it would not be a Cold War at all. It would be the same hot war we're in now. The situation IC would not have changed. The only difference would be no Invasions.
