Fantasy-inspired content in the SW universe

[Lucian Trell]

[member="Akuma"] Where did I ever argue for people to make it canon? I said the exact opposite in fact. Even if it is canon, don't do it.

So in essence you are saying you have a personal dislike for something so everyone else on the site shouldn't have acess to it? EDIT: Just saw your previous post saying you don't enforce it on others. I am an idiot.

 

[huggin_munnin]

[member="Akuma"]

You don't have to use an actual lightsaber to have a frame of reference for using a sword. You can study old swordsmanship manuals online, watch Kendo or HEMA sparring videos, do a bit of historical research, read a sport fencing book or two. You could perhaps lean on martial arts training in real life; unarmed combat has a lot in common with armed, believe it or not...for example, the footwork in Karate and Kendo is very, very similar. Maybe even take up HEMA or Eastern martial arts if it tickles your fancy.

I have never used a sword (hopefully I can find a saber and/or longsword class one day) but I have a bit of Kali (Filipino stick fighting), Karate and high school wrestling. That coupled with a little research gives me a frame of reference.

On another topic, as another person said, dragons and magic katanas are immersion breaking. Yes, Sith and Jedi wielded metal swords....around 25,000 BBY. It's 800+ ABY and, well, katanas are a giant anachronism. If you well and truly desire to wield one, okay, but as we are saying, it spoils immersion. It's not just metal swords in the future, either, but rather a bunch of things on here that I have found which are super out-of-place.

I am trying to be nice about saying it, mind you. People get upset when they perceive something to be critical and thus attacking them personally. It's just irritating because people always simply ignore whatever they don't like when people politely and articulately say things. Eventually, people get frustrated and then are told to calm down and not take it so seriously, it's just fanon and you can do whatever you want etc. Or they are told to leave if they don't like it instead of amending things which don't make sense in a given context.

 

[Ignatius]

You don't have to use an actual lightsaber to have a frame of reference for using a sword. You can study old swordsmanship manuals online, watch Kendo or HEMA sparring videos, do a bit of historical research, read a sport fencing book or two. You could perhaps lean on martial arts training in real life; unarmed combat has a lot in common with armed, believe it or not...for example, the footwork in Karate and Kendo is very, very similar. Maybe even take up HEMA or Eastern martial arts if it tickles your fancy. I have never used a sword (hopefully I can find a saber and/or longsword class one day) but I have a bit of Kali (Filipino stick fighting), Karate and high school wrestling. That coupled with a little research gives me a frame of reference.

I understand where you are coming from. And I know you can get a grasp from such things you have mentioned. I do as well. I did attend a Judo class for a while, I am a Wrestler, and I have been taught a littke of tai qwon do from a friend. (I don't know if I spelled that right?) I made a referance to that because the other writer was talking about how somebody doesn't really know how to be a Master Sword user. I pointed to him that nobody really can be a Lightsaber user either becuase it is fake/fiction. So don't get me wrong when I say that. I completely agree with you. You can get a frame of referance and learn new styles off of old ones. or learn one style from a different one.

On another topic, as another person said, dragons and magic katanas are immersion breaking. Yes, Sith and Jedi wielded metal swords....around 25,000 BBY. It's 800+ ABY and, well, katanas are a giant anachronism. If you well and truly desire to wield one, okay, but as we are saying, it spoils immersion. It's not just metal swords in the future, either, but rather a bunch of things on here that I have found which are super out-of-place.

Yes it may be so. In some instances I can see that. However for this site, the site canon states that there was 800 years of darkness where entire planets and poplulations died out or lost touch. So it would be reasonable that becuase people wouldn't even dare to leave their planet, let alone their house, Instead of looking for new and improved tech, they relied on old school stuff. If the older stuff worked, then it worked. So swords were still possible. As well as Slugthrowers. In fact, the Tuskins use them because of how powerful they can be. A sword wouldn't be out of the question when we just got out of the 800 years of darkness. If some people still have them, they have them becuase that's all they know. They don't know about the time before the great plague. In this sense, I see swords as being fine. Hence why I use them.

I am trying to be nice about saying it, mind you. People get upset when they perceive something to be critical and thus attacking them personally. It's just irritating because people always simply ignore whatever they don't like when people politely and articulately say things. Eventually, people get frustrated and then are told to calm down and not take it so seriously, it's just fanon and you can do whatever you want etc. Or they are told to leave if they don't like it instead of amending things which don't make sense in a given context.

I learned that people will take it personally, and some wont. Do I care if they do? not really. It's up to them if they want to. Arguing with me won't solve anything. and arguing with them won't help either of us. I don't tell people to deal with it because I am in charge. I tell them to deal with it because that is the way life is. You have to deal with the hand that has been dealt to you. Fold, or play your hand.

I don't mean or try to disrespect people here. Yes I admit there are times when I am passive agressive, and made snide comments or remarks. It's not like nobody has. Really over the past hour(s) I realize how dumb and stupid I acted, and how i really did look like a jerk. But we all do stupid stuff. We all argue our hearts out becuase this is something we love to look, act and do. it's something we cherish simply because we grew up on it or just want something fun to do. At the end of the day, I can say that I have no regrets for my actions becuase everything is done for a reason. and we all have to deal with what it is for another.

[member="Ceska Starshield"],

 

[huggin_munnin]

I would point out that while you are correct that things have stagnated for hundreds of years, making a metal weapon is a lot more involved than say a lightsaber. Corrin Horn literally made his from spare parts and the hardest part was finding a focusing crystal he said. Forging a normal metal blade is not a cakewalk, and then you have to Force imbue it, esoteric as all get out. That requires specific knowledge that only a Sith or Jedi of some experience would have. Most Sith and Jedi wouldn't exactly have that kind of alchemical knowledge seeing as how it's rare, finicky and takes years to master. Maybe if it was an old hierloom, though, that's possible. Or a certain archaic culture as some FUs come from.

Not telling you how to rp, just pointing that out.

[member="Akuma"]

 

[Ignatius]

[member="Ceska Starshield"], I didn't only mean special swords. I meant swords in general like vibroblades and simple iron swords as well. Those were used as well.

 

[Orphen]

People should be able to RP what they want

Mando's have swords and armour... Vibroblades are the thing, sith swords are a thing.

Armour is useful, and aside from fancy HUDs etc, it's not outlandish that some people wanna do away with the easily EMP'd tech... swords also have their uses (one being they're weighted and light-sabers are not, not to mention walking force nexus' etc...)

I mean, this is a roleplay site, it's up to people's own prerogative to roleplay what they wanna roleplay cos its fun and it's not really hurting anyone. Hell Echani have their heads stuck in their own weird sci-fi esque Renaissance Samurai flick, and they're one of the most popular races.

At the end of the day its about the story people are writing, if the story is about a man from an underdeveloped world using primitive weapons and armour in a star wars setting. That could be cool. there are plenty of races in canon like that, so i don't see why this is an issue...

im confused.

EDIT: just adding my 2 cents

 

[Darth Hauntruss]

I aint gonna lie. Hauntruss is very much a oldschool D&D campaign boss. Sure I try and keep her within the SW expanded universe when it comes to Sith Sorcerer types. But let me tell I do dip into the field of 40k and Fantasy from time to time in my story styles.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

Star Wars is inherently Fantasy IN SPACE. It has much more in common with say, Lord of the Rings than it does Starship Troopers, for example. If you look at the development process, it was originally supposed to be even more obviously a classic fantasy tale (but with spaceships and laser swords), and the basic plot of the first movie is ripped off Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress which is a Medieval Japanese setting.

Now don't get me wrong, certain authors from the EU have definitely expanded on the sci-fi aspects, and one can pick and choose as much of either genre as they wish, but come on now, the Force? It's magic, alright.

So no you shouldn't restrict things beyond what doesn't fit with the visual/thematic style of Star Wars, which is basically already covered by the the factory rules.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Wolf"]

Hate to tell you this, but look up canon. You will find example after example.... JUST like dragons, that exist in canon. One such thing including Naboo's architecture, or maybe the Sephi which were the original space elves. Or maybe even Diathim which are the angels of the Star wars universe. Suck it up, Star Wars had Fantasy themes in it long before we started RPing on it.

 

[Wolf]

[member="Emilia Marean"]
Suck it up?

Pssst, I was merely opening up a discussion that I know people have issues about, I dig fantasy themes, content etc. If it's all canonical as you say, I'm happy about it, as I said in my original post that I would want to create fantasy armour at some point.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Wolf"]

Sorry about the suck it up, ive just seen this for two weeks now and im annoyed people forget that Star wars had so much fantasy in it to begin with that they should not be whining about it.

 

[Lurcano Car'dann]

*SMH* Tag me not Wolf.

[member="Emilia Marean"] What's your point? The EU is a massive universe that's wholly unregulated. If I wrote a book where I added Orcs to SW, that would technically make it canon. No one regulates anything that goes on. A lot of the things you guys are referencing are books or comic books that people have done not officially endorsed by anyone from Lucas Arts.

And even if we assumed that all these things were cannon. So what? It's not like we're playing in a wholly canon universe here ourselves. When people talk about a SW theme, they mean the movies. Did we have retarded Space Elves, Samurai Armor, Katanas, Dragons, etc. In the movies? No we didn't. So why bring it into the forums. I understand that the movies don't limit what is canon and what isn't. But I think we should try and follow the THEME of the movies as closely as possible. Dragons and Snow Elves, and feudal Japan is not following the theme of the movie. And I can guarantee that I've probably got the biggest Japan hard on out of anyone here. But there is a time and place for it. A SW RP forum is not the time and place for it.

[member="Cyrus Tregessar"] Fantasy in space? Nope. Fantasy is a genre that uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a driving plot point. The Force isn't magic. There is a completely scientific reasoning behind it. And short of the force, is there really any other thing in the entire SW universe that isn't sci-fi related? Your whole argument is based on the foundation of SW being fantasy related. Which we all know it's not. It is a sci-fi universe with a sci-fi background. Therefore, we should enforce a rule that tones down the amount of fantasy bullpoodoo which includes dragons and derp Samurai weaboo armor.

I challenge ANYONE to name one fantasy element outside of the force from the original 6 movies. Can't do it? What of the clone wars? Nope. KotOR? Nope. SWTOR? Nope. Thrawn trilogy? Nope. Yuhon Vzong War? Nope. Jedi Apprentice Series? Nope. The biggest and most widely recognized cannon sources have very little to no fantasy elements involved. It's only when we start going to the independent authors and game developers where we start seeing fantasy BS crop up.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Lurcano Car'dann"]

Not talking EU, because i could type volumes, everything i mentioned is all official canon, as is the witches of dathomir, sith Ghost, sith sorcery, body swapping, spellweaving, yada, yada, yada.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Lurcano Car'dann"]

Also, Force Katanas are canon too.

Clone Wars TV show, sorry to ruin your day.

 

[Lurcano Car'dann]

[member="Emilia Marean"] You literally ignored the whole entire point of my post. The Witches of Dathomir, Sith Ghost, Sith Sorcery, etc. Those all became canon due to works of writing written by someone else now officially sponsored by Lucas Arts. George Lucas had a vision for SW. A Sci-Fi world with elements like the force mixed in to give it some flavor. Other people came in and changed that around. And anyway, the Witches of Dathomir sitll use the force. A force ghost is force related, as is Sith sorcery, body swapping, spell weaving, etc. If you call a Tomato an Orange, it's still a Tomato. Just because these things are named after traditionally fantasy elements doesn't mean they don't have their sci-fi roots. None of those things would be possible with the midi-chlorians that are in all living things. Just because they're killed magic doesn't mean they are.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Lurcano Car'dann"]

I... you... what... The force itself is magic and obi-wan kenobi uses it to become a living spirit trapped in the physical plane to teach luke. Not with a machine, with the force... im confused how you think there are not fantasy workings in star wars because everything you said you agreed is force related...

Also, Death star trench run, Luke uses farsight to be able to make the shot. Sooo Sorry, again not someone elses idea.

 

[Lurcano Car'dann]

[member="Emilia Marean"] The Force itself is obviously magic? You obviously don't know what the force is then. The Force is a pervasive energy field present all across the universe. Midi-Chlorians are microscopic organelles present in all living things. Depending on the ratio of Midi-Chlorian cells to all regular cells, it gives the user a certain control over this pervasive energy field otherwise known as the force. As for force ghosts, you are completely wrong. A force ghost is when a dying force user sublimates their organic cells that contain the Midi-Chlorians into a state of pure ENERGY. Becoming "one with the force." Or in other words, a part of the pervasive ENERGY field. It has nothing to do with magic.

 

[Alexandra Feanor]

[member="Lurcano Car'dann"]

Magic is loosely defined as the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces. This in terms means the force as you are, through mysterious and metaphysical means manipulating said life energy (or energy field) as you put it, in order to change the course of events or manipulate your surrounding. And as for the whole force ghost thing, i ask you to look up what a druid is or better yet if anyone here has played World of Warcraft, tell me what happens when a night elf character or player dies. They become a wisp which is a spirit taking on its form andd becoming 'one' with the life energy around it. Again, your words while yes focus on a biological means still count as magic. And if you want something different than WoW i can give you a DnD example.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

Fantasy in space? Nope. Fantasy is a genre that uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a driving plot point. The Force isn't magic. There is a completely scientific reasoning behind it.

Uh, you'll have to elaborate on the science behind that, exactly. Having a system for magic to work =/= science.

As for fantasy elements... Lets see we've got a Chosen One, a Dark Lord, the Farmboy taught by the last member of a secretive religious order, a captive Princess, etc. Now granted those are general concepts and not specific items or something but you don't need a magic sword or a dragon to make it fantasy (because lightsabers are totally not magic swords, man).

Look you could take the entire plot of Star Wars, change out the spaceships and ta-da, it's a Fantasy. In fact, that's exactly what Paolini did with Eragon. It's the core of the original series. The EU authors did their best to put science behind the concepts, I can tell you that the ideas for the mechanics behind shields, blasters, hyperspace, etc. didn't come from Lucas.

 

[Isaac Ideus]

You guys are being silly. Hell, the concept of science-fantasy exists, and Star Wars certainly has elements of it. Anyway, I think it's a bit dumb to get so worked up about an argument over genres.

And we all know midichlorians are bulls%^*$