Galactic Republic Restructure.

[Kenrath]

Unless I am missing something in her post [member="Alyesa Organa"] is basically saying I left for a bit and I came back and nothing was the same. It happens but where is the records of how and why it changed.

To that end I tend to agree with her as I find myself in the same boat. I spent a great bit of time and effort into the restructure started by Kiskla giving input into not only the OOC aspects but working out the IC application of said changes. Only to need to take some me time away and come back to a completely and in some ways utterly confusing GR.

Sure there is activity galore which is what our goal was 6 months ago or so. Great no issues there. It does however seem we went from step A to step F with no clue what happened to steps B through E.

I am military minded where Alyesa is politics minded so the example she used is the Senate. If it is based on the thread I am thinking she is referring to it even made me shake my head reading it.

*shrugs* anyway that is my two cents........going to go back to being invisible again.

 

[Seraphina Shel'tah]

[member="Shamus Walker"]

To address this point: The military was restructured due to total and complete inactivity in the prior leadership roles as well as characters within the military branch. This was discussed openly in the faction, and those who were active had the opportunity to ask questions and vote. The vote was left open. Those who were not active, or chose not to vote, well, that's how things go. We can't be expected to take into consideration the opinions of those who are not active in the faction, lest we never accomplish anything.

Here is a full record of the changes as they happened:

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/52484-important-should-we-merge-our-military/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/50300-the-galactic-republic-military-reconstruction/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/52888-important-regarding-the-republic-nfu-military/

Incom pulls from the Republic:
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/53239-change-of-direction/

Response to Incom departure which was agreed by both faction leaders and the owner of said company:
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/54004-important-starship-usage/

Key members involved with restructuring the military:

[member="Kayleigh Tyven"]
[member="Gir Quee"]
[member="Orick T'ane"]
[member="Friedrich Stahlmann"]
[member="Vaudin Miir"]

General structure oversight by:
[member="Corvus Raaf"]
[member="Kian Karr"]

There are a number of other folks involved as well that I am likely forgetting. What I am getting at here is that these changes aren't just made out of the blue. They are considered and discussed to great lengths. Other members such as [member="Fixx Kearney"] and [member="Ali Hadrix"] and [member="Mark Crassis"] have worked on the military intelligence aspect of the Republic.

Nothing is done in the spur of the moment, but the faction leadership cannot be held accountable for the inaction of others to A: not voice their opinions or B: not remain active. Changes come with different leadership. That is simply the way of things. But judging by the changes made over the past few months, and the surge of activity the Republic has had during that time, I would venture to say that we have been successful in returning a lot of the fun to the Republic.

 

[Corvus Raaf]

[member="Shamus Walker"]

As I was a member of the FA team that discussed and agreed the Triumvirate structure and was also someone that agreed the new version, your feedback is useful to me.

When you're here every day, small changes aren't really noticed but I suspect that if you've been away a while, they can seem quite significant.

Any suggestions you have would be gratefully received

 

[Aithne Charr]

[member="Seraphina Shel'tah"] [member="Jack Sparrow"]

With all due respect guys, and i mean this in the most honest and careful way i can.

The Senate deserve no more power than it has now. Those in it including myself act like children and let their OOC problems weasel their way into the RP. Whether it be the problem that Organa and Lasedri have with eachother, my wanting to keep the Republic as is because its doing well, or Rostu's Zealousness over something that affected another of his characters directly involving our IC Ally.

My point is the Senate is not respectful to eachother and as such how can we trust them with military, or hell even foreign policy.

My two cents.

(Nor are all the Senators active enough that giving them more power would solve anything. Half the Senators barely post, the other half are those that can't leave things for the better.)

 

[Damian Starchaser]

So my two cents. I wasn’t around when this was changed. I was however a Faction Admin for the Republic a very long time ago. I actually created the senate and the original rules for it. I work(ed) in politics for a living. I was on two senatorial campaigns and two congressional campaigns along with being active (not anymore) in memphis city politics. I’ve actually looked through real political bills. But you know what? Not everyone else has…. and not everyone else would find it fun to RP in this environment. By making the senate and the senate alone the deciding body for the faction we are taking the decision out of the faction members hands as much as the original post says the faction admins have.

So things were changed without consulting the faction. I wasn’t here. I can’t speak for that. I know getting rid of the committees that used to be around limits the RP of Senators. If you want active senators they need things to do. Getting rid of their activities gets rid of things to do. This seems to be common sense.

So what are the problems of the senate? The real problems. Well for one there is only a handful of senators when in reality there could be thousands. Nothing really wrong with that but it becomes a problem that I stated in the first paragraph when only those people can vote on issues. At this point we aren’t getting a full representation of the faction. So how do we fix this? I’d propose that we make it so senators can talk and debate but let every writer in the faction have a vote in an open poll. In this matter the senate could comfortably make certain decisions while having the support of the faction. These extra votes count as the myriad of other NPC senators.

So what else? I think the senate needs a clearly defined list of what they can and cannot do. Can the senate make treaties? Well no, but they can ratify it. Actually its funny because in a thread [member="Kayleigh Tyven"] says the same thing but there was never any follow through on it. So I don't think it was an issue of the senate can't do it so much as the senate was inactive and thus it slipped from mind. Actually in that same thread Kayleigh technically committed High Treason just like Oliver North did in the Iran Contra affair. Which I think goes back to what I said in the begining about people just not being sure how government works entirely or what laws exist and all that.

And for the record before I get accused of attacking Kayleigh… Oliver North currently works for Fox News. So it isn’t like technically committing treason always ends up with you in jail or hell even out of your position as incidents during Iraq have proved…. It is actually a pretty common occurance in modern times.

So there we go. I have a few other idea’s that might be neat involving the senate but lets eat what is on the plate right now. Whatcha all think of creating committees, letting people vote, and all that? Maybe a basic "what powers ye have?" thread?

 

[Varus Shatterstar]

Yea... this is why I don't do politics. Things can get heated too quickly, and I'm not saying that they are, just that they normally do. Also, I don't think that the banning of droid usage is a very good point to make at all. That's like saying the Governor of your state is trying to pass a bill that prohibits police officers from eating donuts.

First of all, what would be the point? Secondly, it would be overlooked and brushed under the rug most likely, but if that bill did pass it would only do to put strain on the relationship between the government and the people protecting it. So I suppose what I'm saying is if we do discuss the role of senate and reconsider their power and resources, don't use that power for ridiculous things.

I think the, "Don't fix what isn't broken.", quote applies here.

 

[Kenrath]

[member="Corvus Raaf"]

I was around for the Triumvirate structure discussion and yes I remember your presence there. In these types of discussions it seems nobody actually reads what is actually posted but only focuses on the one or two lines they want.

I don't care the Military was restructured...............the parts I helped work on had everyone organized into Battle groups putting the two branches together as a single combat unit. The current structure is a logical second step.

My point was not to question or grip what is or why it is what it is. My point was to say that my interpretation of what the OP was saying has merit that should be considered instead of being reduced to one person's whining session.

Sera was gracious to post so interesting thread links on the changes. For that I am genuinely appreciative. However it does not help out the OP as the links provided have nothing to do with the current state and actions of the Senate IC or OOC.

I get the impression that some things were taken out of context that as now a month or two later produced results that are perhaps less than noble.


I will say this in closing. I offer no statements, opinions, or suggestions on anything. I only ask questions until told not to ask in which case I will be --------------------------------------> over here minding my own business.

 

[Zenitha Chuma]

The question I have is, why was this thread even created?

Did [member="Alyesa Organa"] PM the Faction Admins about this first? Was an attempt made to get this sorted without public cacaphony?

I'm not talking about six months ago. I'm not talking about two weeks ago. I'm talking about now, before this thread was created. People here are pretty willling to talk things out if all parties are being reasonable.

Starting a public thread in the faction's OOC area about a major faction criticism without attempts to resolve things in a more direct manner (PMing the FAs) isn't reasonable.

 

[The End Narrator]

[member="Lok Jorunn"]

I am not going to engage in an argument to what I feel is an insult.

 

[Damian Starchaser]

[member="Aimone"]

I have to disagree at least in part here. Justice Louis Brandeis once said that sunlight is the best disinfectant. It is good to have open and frank discussions about the faction, let everyone get any angst off their chest and discuss new ideas. The problem only arises when things get too heated. But so far all things considered this thread is pretty tame.

 

[The End Narrator]

[member="Aimone"]

There is an extensive history behind this to which the Faction Leader has been aware from the start. I had been discussing several issues and items but several parties saw things differently.

Again, my full response won't be produced until I am able to present all facts. I am not going to wage war against FAS and Corvus. For those of you who are spouting out about this being drama and theatrics and so forth, again aren't doing more than dividing than resolving.

You may not outright say it but your words and meanings behind statements say otherwise.

Tl;Dr - Yeah I had been in talks with the FAs and FL. Who I engage is my personal preference as I may not feel comfortable engaging one or another for my own reasons. There is a lot more than just incom leaving which seems to be a sole sore point.

So, again I'm going to continue to allow others to respond as I am again not the only person. I ask those who are arguing with others to please stop because they have the right to air their grievances.

I thank Seraphina for her open view as well.

 

[Zenitha Chuma]

Again, my full response won't be produced until I am able to present all facts.

What's stopping you? I'd rather see all the facts first before the discussion gets out of hand.

 

[Lok Jorunn]

I am not going to engage in an argument to what I feel is an insult.

I said "agreed."

C'mon.

But I'm done with this. My apologies for insulting you.

 

[The End Narrator]

[member="Aimone"]

Real life.

 

[Seraphina Shel'tah]

My point was not to question or grip what is or why it is what it is. My point was to say that my interpretation of what the OP was saying has merit that should be considered instead of being reduced to one person's whining session.

Sera was gracious to post so interesting thread links on the changes. For that I am genuinely appreciative. However it does not help out the OP as the links provided have nothing to do with the current state and actions of the Senate IC or OOC.

[member="Shamus Walker"] - That was more so to demonstrate that I agree with Jack's sentiment of giving more things for the Senate to do, through restructuring it, similar to the military, which seemed to without a doubt spur activity. The reason the government in its' entirety was restructured was because of lack of activity within the overall IC leadership. The reason that change was made was simply because it had to. It was agreed upon by the faction admins at that time. Was it wrong to not consult the faction as a whole, as I did with the military? Perhaps, but as faction admins occasionally decisions are made that may or may not be favorable to a number of people. As the saying goes, you can't please everyone. But we do sincerely try to make this faction as entertaining as possible for everyone involved.

As I said in my last post, perhaps we need to sit down as a faction and decide what kind of purpose the Senate should serve in the Republic, and what authority they should be granted. However, keep in mind, this authority cannot overstep the faction's leadership or ability to implement required changes. IC must stay IC. There is too much blurring of the lines going on with respect to what the Senate can and cannot do with regard to power over the faction. It is not to be the end-all be-all of the faction, so, what can we make it, so that it remains fun and constructive to the faction? I don't have an answer. I'm not a politician and I can't pretend to be one either. But there must be a clear dividing line between both IC and OOC.

 

[Damian Starchaser]

[member="Seraphina Shel'tah"]

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/58451-galactic-republic-restructure/?p=873522

I made a bit of a suggestion that I think is kind of in line with your own thought process. *nods*

 

[Gir Quee]

So general consensus seems to be that:

1) Senators need a way of effectively doing things that actually matter.

2) The senate needs clearly defined boundaries of what it can and cannot do.

I think that the use of committees might be the answer to these issues. They'd give a focus to senators to concentrate on accomplishing various related tasks or solving specific issues. In a way, the committee could also serve as a boundary (IE, your defense committee member isn't going to be telling everyone in finance what to do). They might even have special powers related to their committees (like a finance senator could potentially block federal funding to a certain company, etc). But that power would limited to that specific area of focus. Each committee would likely need to have the specifics of its power and boundaries worked out in conjunction with the OOC leadership.

I'm somewhat torn by [member="Damian Starchaser"]'s suggestion to allow everyone an OOC vote on a bill. I think it's a great way to involve everyone in the faction's decisions, and perhaps to drum up some activity in the Senate as well. But again, we run the risk of potentially alienating some writers by passing laws that would adversely affect their own plans IC or OOC (for example, as mentioned earlier, banning droid production). In real life, this potential of abuse is why we have the judicial and executive branches (at least in the USA and some other countries) to provide checks and balances. But I don't see a judicial branch being very popular either. Perhaps the "judicial" system could be RPed by the faction staff to act as that check and balance for IC and OOC purposes?

 

[H3xle]

[member="Gir Quee"]

We could also set up an actual IC Judiciary for the purpose of RPing the constitutionality of laws and adjudicating disputes...they would likely need oversight by OOC FAs to ensure impartiality.

There would also need to be a handily accessible 'constitution' for this judiciary to read.

 

[The End Narrator]

Ultimately, my summary because I cannot type my response the way I'd like atm.

I'd like to see the Councils or committee's reinstated. This allows expansion of RP between branches, allows the Senate to have some power and basically everyone gets what they want.

Example: kayleigh would be able to work with the military oversight on contracts, alliances, ect. Just a rough example.

 

[Axo Mend]

Redacted