Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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Here Is What I See

Vazela

OOC Writer Account
Here is what I see.

I've watched a member of this community harass, disrupt and be genuinely spiteful to members of a faction because they were not getting what they wanted. I have seen nothing happen to this person. And I have seen this person jump ship to a rival faction, with the sole intention of joining said faction to get back at the one they just left. And nothing is going to happen to this person. No repercussions. And the members- and more importantly, it's leadership- will not kick or, at the very least, ensure that this person didn't join their faction with malicious intentions against their previous faction that, coincidentally, they are at war with In Character.

This is metagaming at the core of what metagaming is. And it shouldn't be tolerated.

Relations between said factions haven't been in good terms with one another since the second was founded earlier this year. And the general basis for this hostility between their members comes down to some elitist-victim based narrative that said second faction was founded to mess over the first. This conspiracy theory has now been carried from the bottom up, to the point that the founder of this website has become involved in it, one way or another.

At this point of this post I heavily debated throwing out names. You know, I hate causing drama and ruckus as much as the next person. But with the very creation of this post, I am beginning it anyway. Because certain things need to be brought to light to the wider community. Pressure tends to garner the right result, one way or the other.

Of course, I speak of [member="Tefka"] and the recent creation of [member="Ra Vizsla"]. I speak of [member="Ridist Dracko"] and his recent actions in the Mandalorian Empire, which eventually led up to him leaving (or being thrown out) and joining the Mandalorian Clans. And I speak of the general angst between the Mandalorian Clans and Mandalorian Empire that has been an on-going issue dating back to when [member="Isley Verd"] first begun his faction.

In the past 4 months, I have watched the One Sith begin to eat itself up. This is expected, considering most Sith factions- regardless of the website they are founded on- normally destroy themselves, based on In Character betrayals, deceptions and attacks. Sith don't get along with each. Something about individuality and chasing perfection. But this faction hasn't died, or is dying because of In Character reasons, but because of issues going on OOC. Issues that led to two (perhaps three) different incarnations of other Sith factions, with only the Sith Triumvirate managing to make it to major faction and staying the course.

I don't pretend to know what is going on with the One Sith. I've been involved, on and off with the faction, since it's inception. I stuck to my In Character goals, which did not coincide with the One Sith. I don't even know what has been going on OOC. But it is clearly obvious to me that something has happened. After all, a faction that took down the Galactic Republic from the height of it's power to it's current state, based mostly In Character, is now on the brink of collapse (or so it appears) due to a loss of several of it's most influential members (Reverance, Vornskr, Isamu Baelor, Cira's alts).

I have watched the Galactic Alliance, built mostly from old Republic players (we won't get into that) capitalize on the misfortunes of the OS faction, that appear on the surface to have been caused OOC. And the staff let this happen. At the height of the One Sith's strength, the Alliance was actually repelled during the Sacking of Coruscant. Now, it looks highly probable that the Alliance have just annexed Coruscant from the One Sith. Perhaps it is a coincidence, or dumb luck, that the Alliance managed to achieve this victory during this time. And, yes, it is sound strategy to attack an enemy when their pants are down. But not like this. Intentional or not, this is a form of metagame, in my opinion.

I have watched [member="Vitor Imperieuse"] be continually accosted by members of this community, going all the way back to 2013. And it hasn't stopped. This writer has been bullied to the point that they haven't participated in this community 'properly' for nearly a year. And they are unlikely to return. There are a lot of people on this website that are happy about this. I dare say that there are members of the staff that are happy about this too. I speak of the Codex and Factory level judges. I'd like to think that the RPJs and Administrators are better than that and so they should be.

In a recent Q&A, Tefka said that he left the community-that-shall-not-be-named because the staff were biased, manipulative and incapable of moderating that community properly. He started Chaos with the intentions of clamping down on the problems that he experienced during his time in that aforementioned community. And, yet, these problems have begun to show in Chaos. Perhaps this is a curse for all roleplay communities. After all, the community that I joined Chaos from (and still roleplay in) experienced all of these problems and more. Regardless, even at the smallest levels of staff- and by extension, the larger community- the same biased, manipulative and, to be blunt, stupidity, that Tefka experienced in his old community have begun to settle their roots in Chaos.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps Tefka hasn't been drawn into the on-going OOC political debacles of both Mandalorian factions, and in an effort to solve it, he has used his popularity and status as owner of this website to speed track a new character to the position of Mand'alor. Perhaps Tefka is just writing and enjoying a new character. But it doesn't seem that way. It doesn't seem that way because the writer of Isley Verd has been constantly accosted with vague threats, both IC and OOC, in an effort to stop him becoming Mand'alor. That the main motivations, and reasons why he hasn't become Mand'alor IC yet tends to come from OOC rather than IC.

Perhaps I am wrong about Chesire (Ridst Dracko). Perhaps the members of the Mandalorian Empire were bullying and accosting him on the same level that Vitor Imperieuse was back in the circa 2013 Sith Empire. But that doesn't seem likely either. It seems more likely that this person has an attention seeking-victim complex that has put him on the fringes of this community. Because nobody likes someone who is attention seeking or has a victim complex. Right?

Perhaps I am wrong about the One Sith. Perhaps the faction has run it's course. Members became bored and wanted to roleplay in other and / or new factions. Out of all the points I have made in this post, this one seems the more likely explanation. I've already admitted that I don't know much about the OS. This is an outsider perspective. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Perhaps Vitor Imperieuse has deserved all the abuse sent his way over the years. Perhaps the In Character actions that ended up destroying his companies and characters reputations etc. were all doing based purely In Character, and not because something was said or done OOC. That OOC wasn't the driving factor behind Operation: Weedkiller, the destruction of Subach-Innes and several other things that I can't think of at this time.

Perhaps I am a hypocrite for pointing this out. After all, I am no saint. I certainly haven't helped the One Sith. My attempts to takeover the faction with @Vilox Pazela were considered annoying and tedious. It is well known that I do not share good relations with Vitor's writer. So, again, perhaps the stigma and general hostility towards him and his roleplay is deserved.

Maybe it's just me.

But this is what I see in this community. And I do not like it.
 

Nyxie

【夢狐】
Before I even address this, I want to state plainly and impersonally: isn't this Name & Shame, which is loosely a violation of the rules? There are plenty of reasonable ways to go about this kind of subject -- this was not one of them.


Anyways, back to the matter at hand, I did not "join" the Mandalorian Clans out of some act of vengeance. Technically I never even left it in the first place. I frequently remove characters from forum groups when I know a.) they are going to be inactive from a faction for a long period of time; or b.) I'm moving stuff around again. This is apparently not just on the Saera account but on the timestamps of all of my accounts. Even excusing that for sake of argument, what would you have me do, stop roleplaying a Mandalorian just because I begrudgingly left one of the Mandalorian factions?

Or, to make a long story short, if I gave a care about the tension between the Clans and the Empire, I would have joined the conflict already. Case in point.

Now if you were asking me why I left, it was because a member was being particularly abrasive -- both on the forums and outside of it -- and unlike most people who were rubbed the wrong way, I tend to be the most volatile in reaction to such things. I even admitted to that person that my reciprocation was harsh, apologized and offered peace; I've yet to hear back from them on the matter, and I think it's within my right to assume everyone simply took it to gossip and debate.


So in summary, all I've been doing is minding my own business and enjoying my own characters like I should have from the start. You're free to believe and adhere to what you want and I won't stop you or think ill of it, because my only concern is my characters and life moves forward.
 
While I agree that the state of the site has been in full decline, as well as favoritism - and in many ways fascism - seems to play a big part in many aspects, I have to disagree with certain points made here.

Some things are OOC, this is true. Look at myself for an example. Were it not for Jon and his niceties shown to me, I likely would have been shoved further away than I was much faster. I was a writer from a different style of art, one in which attempting to have the strongest meant automatically being known as one such. Yet this instead led me to being hated by a great many people. At the time when it first became obvious that I was hated, I felt attacked, like [member="Kaine"] zambrano, Jared Ovmar, Ordo even, simply were shooting me down. I did know that some did avoid me at all cost, as if I were a plague. But in the long run, a greater effort of these feelings were a jump of the gun. It turned out that many of these, especially those mentioned, were simply IC responses not that of true aggression.

Sure some like [member="Darth Adekos"] and even the aforementioned [member="Isley Verd"] did not appreciate me. This though took time to understand, not as an affront to myself, nor even conjoined aggression, rather they did not appreciate my writing styles. To which I changed, put in the work to show I am not the same Over Powered writer, and have found that they have no real issues with me. Hell I am a constant speaker in chat with Isley now. Adekos has spoken with me on ends since as well, though we are in opposing factions so I do not see this being common.

In regards to some things happening that feel ooc driven: some times it is simply a heavy IC preference. Ie, Mikhail Shorn. For the longest time I genuinely and truly felt he hated me - me the person, not my art, nor my characters. Now I understand he simply had a character that was HEAVY on the snark. He even offered to be Master to a character of mine. Offered singularly, as in, "Hey make a new character and let's rp." It was crazy for me.


That being said. There are some things that simply do indeed seem to be of a different variety. It seems at times that OOC controls everything. It has been said that the fall of the SE was... forced. While not entirely, even I note that it did feel as if Tef said let it be, and it was.

But the end result is this: can we do anything about this? Will bringing these things to light change anything?

No.

Hell, had I done this post a while back, I would have likely been condemned never to have a true role playing partner on site. It would have appeared rash, unnecessary, and vindictive. Calling out the staff as is, already feels that way.

Again, after this though, I would like to note that there are at least two Admin that despite it all, I feel will do everything in their power to keeo things true and proper: [member="Cira"] and [member="Spencer Varanin"]. Both have, multiple times, made it known that any issues like these that we find, can be brought to them and they would do all they could to reform it.

Can they change everything? Not at all. Can they make an impact? Yes.


Lastly though is this. It is a community site. One under the leadership of a man whom has generally done his best with it. Do I feel at times it is wrong? Sure. Hell this led to my #Tefka'sFascistRegime tags. But all in all, I believe he knows that even if I feel wronged or attacked, that it is in no way truism. He runs a ship full of hundreds of different people, in which every day things grow and change.

Sometimes changes are needed in spite of popular demand. So he makes them.



Sorry for my rambling, I am tired, and have to wake up early so took my meds early. Maybe this is all stupid. Either way, my point is, some of this is IC driven and some isn't, but what can we do? It is not our site, nor do we hold power.
 

Liliane

Guest
Vazela said:
I have watched the Galactic Alliance, built mostly from old Republic players (we won't get into that) capitalize on the misfortunes of the OS faction, that appear on the surface to have been caused OOC. And the staff let this happen. At the height of the One Sith's strength, the Alliance was actually repelled during the Sacking of Coruscant. Now, it looks highly probable that the Alliance have just annexed Coruscant from the One Sith. Perhaps it is a coincidence, or dumb luck, that the Alliance managed to achieve this victory during this time. And, yes, it is sound strategy to attack an enemy when their pants are down. But not like this. Intentional or not, this is a form of metagame, in my opinion.
I am not here to cause drama, but I and the rest of the Alliance, always seeing what the faction administration plans and have a huge say in that, didn't invade Coruscant for that reason.

We invaded it because of IC reasons. Coruscant is simply the core of the galaxy, the supreme planet, the one everybody wants. At least it should be so according to SW Canon. Invasion of Coruscant has practically always been the goal of ours and we did not think about OS's waning strength when we invaded the planet. We just really wanted to finally liberate the planet from the Sith.

Thank you for the attention.
 
Context: A staff member linked me to a member's accusation of me cheating. This is from Staff chat, and my response.

[7/25/2016 12:43:13 PM] Tefka: 10 Staff Members are going to let me cheat?
[7/25/2016 12:43:41 PM] Tefka: Half of you would openly rebel. I've trained you all better than that.
[7/25/2016 12:49:51 PM] Tefka: If the admins think I'm out of order, that what I'm doing violates the spirit of this community, please hold a discussion and or vote.
[7/25/2016 12:50:05 PM] Tefka: I will abide.



Context: Mando chat were discussing the recent uproar of drama in opposition to my fair election as new FO of the Mandalorian Clans.


[7/25/2016 3:20:32 PM] Tefka: I'll go ahead and get this out of the way
[7/25/2016 3:20:53 PM] Tefka: I apologize if my name being involved with this faction drags us through the dirt because of our opposition yelling "Admin Hax"
[7/25/2016 3:21:20 PM] Redacted: well, 'em. It's up to us to prove were awesome with or without your hairy backside.
[7/25/2016 3:21:49 PM] Tefka: This isn't the first time it'll happen, won't be the last. So long as we progress together, they'll undermine us by bringing "Tefka" up.
[7/25/2016 3:22:02 PM] Redacted: let 'em talk
[7/25/2016 3:22:07 PM] Redacted: all it does is make 'em look silly
[7/25/2016 3:22:17 PM] Tefka: I hope it's clear to all of you I've intended to be fair from the start and have operated within the rules at every step.
[7/25/2016 3:23:16 PM] Tefka: Personally, I'm jealous none of the other Staff members get treated this way.
 
Vazela said:
You know, I hate causing drama and ruckus as much as the next person.
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And yeah, I find it laughable that Mandalorian Empire has completely lost their collecting poodoo when [member="Ra Vizsla"] has not even taken office yet, nor that he is even planning to attack them as far as I know. Guilty conscience? Inability to face an enemy who can fight back? Paranoia of staff favouritism?
I guess we'll see.

I will say this though, having two admins didn't stop Sith Triumvirate deservedly winning Ruusan. I like to think that staff are held to higher account and judgement than regular members, so even if this mythical Mando brawl did happen it would happen with extra scrutiny on the part of any staff member taking place.
 
Vazela said:
You know, I hate causing drama
But then you stir the pot and offer no useful suggestions, nor do you even provide anything to open discussions with or request anything tangible.



Vazela said:
I have watched the Galactic Alliance, built mostly from old Republic players (we won't get into that) capitalize on the misfortunes of the OS faction, that appear on the surface to have been caused OOC. And the staff let this happen.
The first point here is incorrect. As to the second, it called OOC issues when a quick succession of leaders fail to inspire and galvanise a faction?

Should it be the job of staff to prop up a faction in trouble?

Factions come and go. They fall down, drop off the map and new people come in with exciting new ideas. Factions live and die by their ability to create activity.

The last three invasions between the OS and GA have all been drama free and good fun.

What do you want?
 
[member="Vazela"]

I know I'm new to this site but, wow, just wow; this just isn't the way you try to bring about change. All you've done is just point fingers, you aren't contributing at all to a solution; you're just saying names and expecting people to pick up this information and run with it.
 

Liliane

Guest
Lol, I actually do have one more thing to add.

I don't always side with him, but when it comes to him wanting to RP (which he rightfully deserves, since he's he site owner), I support Tef. He does something different than other admins and that causes some drama and false understandings.

Take a look at how he role-plays.

Every time he makes a character, he makes bold, brave moves. He isn't afraid to openly challenge people and start to do things right away. He tries to do stuff he wants to achieve and he tends to try taking reigns over at the factions he joins. But most people immediately side with him since he is the leader. They don't challenge him back. He hasn't cheated faction owner votes. People have actually voted him for being the leader.

So they want him to do that or just vote because, well duh, he's the admin.

I personally don't see much wrong in that. Every other person has the right to challenge factions and other writers, as well as throw their heads into faction owner votes. What Tef has is popularity and community support, which just happen to grant him a lot of the stuff he wants.

The point is, he doesn't cheat. Everything is valid and I like the boldness in his RP. It's the community itself which should be held accountable. And I don't actually blame anybody. I like when factions get an instant boost thanks to him.

:p

don't come to GA, please, tef
 
I respect your point of view. A couple of points of context, from my perspective:

The Mando faction had been stagnant and purposeless for about a year and a half. A bunch of well-meaning people have tried various solutions, but they didn't fully pan out. Tef created the Mando faction and didn't want to see it recalled. When faced with a committed leadership candidate who had a finite IC plan, the faction elected him overwhelmingly.

Yeah, Cheshire may have jumped factions just to get back at the Mando Empire for some slight on Skype, but nobody cared and here's why. So far as I can tell, he hasn't actually done anything along those lines. If he'd taken his brief time in the UCM and launched some sort of massive attack or whatever, clearly motivated by OOC rather than IC, that would have been the time for people to rein him in.
So no actual harm was done.

Isley has gotten a bit of a raw deal, no question there. Frankly I'm uncomfortable with some of the things that have been said to and about him. But I don't see Chaos as irredeemable or worthy of condemnation, collectively or institutionally. I just think a couple people need to grow up as quickly as they get loud.

As for Vitor, I can attest that yes, he was sometimes bullied. He also often actively sought out and instigated that kind of attention for his own purposes. He actively tried to put himself in that position over and over. When insufficient bullying resulted, he framed legitimate help and cooperation, even overtures of friendship, in the context of his determination to be a victim. You would think I would breathe a sigh of relief with him gone, and maybe I'm one of the FJs you're alluding to. But the truth is, I'm a little sad every time someone leaves this community under a cloud. I even miss the guy. He had his flaws, big ones, but in some ways he was inimitable. Do I think some people went too far with him? Yeah, on occasion; I've been one of them once or twice. But all of that was a year, two years, three years in the past. Do I think it was bad enough for him to leave? If it was, I'd like to hear about it. Do I think it was bad enough to condemn the whole community? Nah.

Basically, I see what you're saying, but I don't see it as an existential crisis, just normal wear and tear. We're all in the process of growing up, whether that means leaving Vitor alone or not dropping sly racial references every time Isley does something that someone doesn't understand. And it also means learning to come at things with a sense of proportion and a desire to find peaceful possible solutions. The world isn't ending.
 
[member="Jorus Merrill"]

I did not create the Mandalorian faction you all know today. I founded the Republic.

However, I will confirm that Staff had recently voted on recalling the United Mandalorian Clans due to inactivity. The vote did not pass but there was a premise we would revisit in a month. I was the most staunch opponent in the vote.

I will confirm I'm guilty of being biased towards the Mandalorian Clans. This much should be pretty obvious by now. Would the community rather I sit behind the scenes and make decisions that affect everyone, and be biased there? Or come out into the open, declare my bias, and remove myself from those Staff decisions. It's a hard decision to make.

I wish I wasn't biased at all. I tried not to be. But here we are, and these were the decisions I faced.

I understand the tin foil theories, I really do. But I'm not going to cave in to the drama, because I'm trying to inspire my faction to be better than that.
 
[member="Ra Vizsla"]

Thanks for the clarification; I was misinformed.

I should also point out that the Mando faction saw all of this coming, and elected Tef anyway. No amount of conspiracies weigh as much as a tired team's appreciation of someone with a fresh arm and a plan.
 

Isamu Baelor

Protector of The Iron Realm
Asmus Janes said:
Is it called OOC issues when a quick succession of leaders fail to inspire and galvanise a faction?
Cheers mate. Although, I think that most people would describe my tenure as One Sith Faction Owner as very good.

Now, in regards to the OS: This needs to be made very clear, because I'm sure a lot of people think something has happened in the faction: It hasn't. This has been no fall-outs, no blow-ups, nothing. There's been no event that has caused people to leave. I'm not going to speak for the other people who left over the last few months, but the reason I left was that I'm burned out. There's a reality that dealing with one particular faction on this board is incredibly stressful, and I just want to step away from dealing with those people. I've also been rping as part of the OS pretty much exclusively for almost a year, and I want to try something new. I know other long-time OS people have felt the same too. There's been no drama, trust me.
 

Jsc

Disney's Princess
[member="Ra Vizsla"]

You don't actually have to reply here Tef. This thread is highly unconvincing at thrusting the spear of shame between your ribs. Inquisition against the board owner, this ain't.

@Everyone Else

The board owner can play the game too guys. If he breaks a rule, we can report him. His Staff will look into it and censure him in the exact same way we as non-owners get censured. It's actually pretty boring.

Now. Anybody worried about another Bluehawks, or Staff-Faction, or Meta-Clique, can use the report button just like the rest of us. Or leave and go participate in literally any of the other dozens of SWRP websites around the net. And, come on now? Let's be real. If you don't trust the report button? Dude. Bro. Seriously now. You probably shouldn't be RPing on this specific website anyway. That's just life.
 

Vazela

OOC Writer Account
I think that people have read too much into my post. To imply or to say that Tefka shouldn't be able to roleplay on his own site would hypocritical and ludicrous. As several have said, Tefka is a player on this website- just like the rest of us- and has a right to roleplay on this website. I'll clarify my issues with the recent events:

1. Isley Verd has pro-actively built up support for his claim for Mand'alor. His character is one of the oldest, and most developed characters in the sites history. He has the credibility to be Mand'alor.

2. The staunch opposition that he has received to his claim of Mand'alor has largely come from OOC. That OOC has been translated to IC through the several threats that Isley has received. Furthermore, the Mandalorian leaders have staunchly opposed Isley's claim IC. Again, I say that this staunch opposition to his rise has come from OOC. This is metagaming.

3. Ra Vizsla was created eleven days ago. He has been named Mand'alor by the Council due to Tefka becoming the Mandalorian Clan's Faction Owner. This is evidence that OOC has been translated to IC. And, to me, this is a form of metagame.



The Mando faction had been stagnant and purposeless for about a year and a half. A bunch of well-meaning people have tried various solutions, but they didn't fully pan out. Tef created the Mando faction and didn't want to see it recalled. When faced with a committed leadership candidate who had a finite IC plan, the faction elected him overwhelmingly.
As did Isley. And he worked for it. I know for a fact that Big G approached the Mandalorian Clans and proposed his own plan. He has shown that he is a committed leader, despite the many arguments and OOC crap that has been endured since he begun roleplaying his rise as Mand'alor. He has been continually blocked through OOC means. This is metagaming.

| [member="Jansal Corego"] | [member="Asmus Janes"] |

Neither have you.
 

Jsc

Disney's Princess
[member="Vazela"]

So...

This whole thread is just you complaining that Tef stole Isley's crown and... You have zero real evidence of metagaming to apply for a report and...

You want what exactly?
 
[member="Vazela"]

I'm sorry, but, as I said, I'm new and unfamiliar with the dilemmas you're talking about; my point, solely, is that by exposing your thoughts on the matter in a negative format is only hurting your argument. I'm not taking a stance on something I don't know jack about, but by addressing people this way, you're just building off of bitterness rather than seeking a resolution. Everyone's been so kind to me, I felt it was only right to give my two cents to a discussion about making the site a better place. :) Sorry if you felt like I was taking a jab.
 

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