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Invasion of Alderaan OOC [Mandos vs GR]

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Look - this may be the [member="Jack Sparrow"] rum talking but hey I propose this....

First one to legit woo Alyesa - wins.

One from Mandos, One from the Republic side.

*cackles madly*

[member="Darth Vornskr"] is not a contestant before he even throws his hat in the lot. No, but seriously - how about everyone stop worrying about the map and like the game of Risk and let's write for christ sake. Let's have some fun!

FUN!

You know, that naughty three letter word!

:)
 

Martika Varta

Senator, Umbara; Committee on Civics & Infrastruct
So again, my concern is the utter lack of measurable objectives. I'm hoping we can turn the discussion that way.

There's no standard set in the invasion terms for victory.

There's an implied task, however: Convince Alderaan to remain with the Republic or at the very least remain independent/sovereign of the Mandalorian Empire.

Now, how is that objective completed? It's not a base being taken over, it's the minds of Alderaan's writers that get to decide.

Unfortunately, this leaves us at a rather humorous impasse.

1) At the end of the invasion length, [member=Alyesa Organa]'s writer will have determined for her character if Alderaan will remain with the Republic, retain its independence, or join with the Mandalorians. What this means is that a single writer, who is not an RPJ but will be able to make final decisions of the same power and ramifications, will get to dictate whether the entire invasion of the Mandalorians in a technically Republic territory will be successful or not.
I'm certain all reading this can see why this might be a problem. I'm sure many writers would not want to be involved if their success or failure hinged not on their own ability, but to be decided by another writer. (Of course, the Organa writers as a whole will likely be involved, I am not assuming Alyesa makes all the decisions for their writers.)

2) If Alyesa Organa and the rest of the Organa writers are not making the final decision on the success or failure of the invasion, then this means the decision will likely go to an official site RPJ due directly to the fact that there are no measurable objectives planned for this invasion. The RPJ will decide which set of diplomats made a better political case or something, and decide if the invasion was successful or not. The IC ramifications will follow the OOC ones, and the Republic will have successfully defended the world. However, with the invasion designed the way it is right now, this will mean we will have to invent a reason for Alderaan to turn down the negotiations even if the Organa writers decide otherwise, OOC.

So we're at a stalemate with the terms. My suggestion would be that instead of the determining factor being a decision by a handful of writers or having to rest solely with an RPJ, we design an argumentative objective for our delegates to debate over.

At the end of the invasion, the delegates can come together and decide who won the debate. If a decision is not agreed upon, then it moves on to an RPJ, as per the usual.

We can mediate a single debate between two sides (less desirable), or we can mediate several debates that take place between various writers (such as PvP), or amongst committees (two on two, etc, most favorable, I think). The issue with Alderaan easily encompasses economic, military, and sociopolitical aspects that could all be objectively argued, using facts established in IC writing. It would be agreed upon that certain types of arguments remain with their respective areas of focus (refrain from emotional pleas in a debate regarding economics, for example) for the most part, to avoid too much cross-over.

ADDITIONALLY:

A quick note; this debate-style invasion objective would free the Alderaanian writers from any responsibilities or requirements that are not in line with their desires for their own stories: If the Republic wins the debates, Alderaan secedes officially from the GR Faction. If the Republic loses, then the Mandalorians gain possession of the planet OOC and the GR loses territory.

It's literally a win-win for the Alderaanians.
 
Good lord, ten pages of whining about cloudbreaking and the map game?

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[member="Vilaz Munin"]
Yes unlike the Mandalorian we in the Republic care for the Map game.
Hence we are troubled when invasion feels a bit unclear. Its how we are. Lesser Role Players... please bear with us...

But, hey, I got the solution for you! Dont invade us and you wont get the whining. :cool:
 
[member="Mantic Dorn"]

That's not really an excuse, man. My fellow admins talked and discussed the invasion with your admins during your LOA very clearly, and it ain't my or my colleagues fault that this invasion ain't clear to y'all since y'all agreed to the final terms. Nor is it anyone's fault that this could potentially result in a cloudbreaking situation to y'all.

If y'all don't like invasions and don't want to be invaded, then maybe it's time for a downgrade to minor. Otherwise, hold your map game and cloudbreaking complaints/whining to yourself and roll with the invasion.
 
[member="Vilaz Munin"]

But they're 0 and 13!

But they're the Republic!

Surely that makes them, at this point, exempt from the rules of the map!

Surely everyone should just leave them alone and let them quickly dominion everything they can!

#Facts
 
[member="Vilaz Munin"]

While I am not as worried about the map game as Mantic, he does have valid concerns from where he is coming from.

Is the invasion going to happen whether he likes it or not? Yes.

So does it hurt us all to be able to discuss this like adults? No.

[member="isley verd"]

I am assuming you are attempting to be sardonic about this, but it is coming off as down right bullying.

Quit it.
 
[member="Khyros Sunblade"]

Shut up and give me your lunch money, nerd.

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

And you, quit whining and give me the answers to last night's homework.

[member="Geral Varta"]

Don't make me stuff you in a locker, pleb.
 
Really??? , all this bantering back,and forth over what

Hmmm

Its giving folks a headache including me.

Has everyone,forgotten how to have fun. How to write a story. Do you have to,control so many aspects of it that you suck,the fun Right out?

Terms are set from what I've read. Can we move on please.
 
[member="Isley Verd"]

Be nice.

[member="Mantic Dorn"]


I have no idea why the Republic side of this is so confused. There are a half dozen or more threads that buil up to this, faction admins from both sides negotiated and agreed upon terms. I understand your concern about losing territory on the map. In that regard, this is just like any other invasion. If you lose, site admins determin what, where, and how the map is effected. There is not a single thing that whining, complaining, or arguing can do to effect that.

That being said... I am getting sick and tired of getting the same kark from you and Circe again and again. From whining and arguing to derailing negotiations and attempting to start post-negotiation threads to derail the terms of the invasion. Then there's a certain someone messaging me on skype and outright begging me to "let the Republic win" at Rochr. If this OOC meta bullcrap doesn't stop, I swear I will dominion and invade a bright orange circle around the Republic and claim what's left of your territories one inch at a time for the Mando'ade.
 
Vilaz Munin said:
[member="Mantic Dorn"]

That's not really an excuse, man. My fellow admins talked and discussed the invasion with your admins during your LOA very clearly, and it ain't my or my colleagues fault that this invasion ain't clear to y'all since y'all agreed to the final terms. Nor is it anyone's fault that this could potentially result in a cloudbreaking situation to y'all.

If y'all don't like invasions and don't want to be invaded, then maybe it's time for a downgrade to minor. Otherwise, hold your map game and cloudbreaking complaints/whining to yourself and roll with the invasion.
Hey, I was joking there. Folks will complain when they feel things are poorly handled, whomever the blame is. I like the map game very much though and so does many who are part of major factions. *shrug*

My advice to you, leave the OOC concerns (also refered to as whining) be and focus on what makes your writing tick.
 
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