Question Mandates? Like em, Hate em - How do you feel about them?

[Valery Noble]

Valery Noble

I did state they do have an impact on invasion opportunities and MF to MF engagement. And the Vassal State mandate does create a lot of RP opportunities.

However, that is faction based threads. Plenty of threads on the site are completely unaffected by mandates was my point. So for a majority of writers on this site, it isn't a massive concern what mandate is available and isn't.

That is all I was thinking.

I disagree, since something like a Vassal state changes something about the map, and people do take that into account when they RP. DE capturing planets in the core makes people approach those planets differently, and the same goes for something like the SO Vassal state. Entire new factions are born (like the League Of Autonomous worlds) in response to other Major factions and their growth. That growth doesn't rely entirely on mandates, but they 100% have a huge impact on them.

So even if not directly, Mandates can shape RP for everybody on site in one way or another. They're not necessary by any means, but there's also literally zero negatives to them as long as admins keep an eye on things, which they clearly do.

But to say that removing them wouldn't have much impact is definitely wrong. If the Vassal states were to vanish, it'd have a huge impact on the RP of a lot of people. Most people are still active in factions.

 

[Tefka]

as long as admins keep an eye on things, which they clearly do.

Yep, everythings fine, everythings under control here

 

[WelshPsych]

Valery Noble

I think differently and that people would adapt without Mandates and still find ways to have engaging and exciting stories. I don't think we lose Mandates that stories would die out tomorrow. It might take time to adjust and find the ways to make the stories work, but it would not be impossible.

There were plenty of creative stories and impactful faction interplay before Vassal State existed, and currently it has been the only Mandate you have stated that currently is having any impact on RP. I am not trying to say that you believe it is the only important Mandate here, I just want to point out that you are only highlighting one Mandate as having any impact while the rest could be removed without any issue then.

However, willing to just agree to disagree on how important Mandates are and the impact they have.

 

[Valery Noble]

Yep, everythings fine, everythings under control here

 

[Tefka]

Ugh, I wanted to “both sides” you guys’ discussion, but Welsh did that thing where he 1. Didnt shut up and 2. Posted a smilie at the end of his post.

Look, mandates are extremely meritable. I believe Valery is the “most correct”, but only based on unrealized potential, which really isn’t quantifiable. The same argument that “people can roleplay without x” can be made for the map and the factions, two massive staples of Chaos.

But would as much RP be happening? Probably not.

 

[Valery Noble]

Ugh, I wanted to “both sides” you guys’ discussion, but Welsh did that thing where he 1. Didnt shut up and 2. Posted a smilie at the end of his post.

Look, mandates are extremely meritable. I believe Valery is the “most correct”, but only based on unrealized potential, which really isn’t quantifiable. The same argument that “people can roleplay without x” can be made for the map and the factions, two massive staples of Chaos.

But would as much RP be happening? Probably not.

Yeah, that's pretty much my point. Removing the mandates doesn't add anything to the RP experience, but keeping and making new ones clearly has added something new to the site. I like Vassal State as an example because it's a very obvious, story-driven expansion of what we were able to do in terms of Roleplay.

But the 6-hex invasion is another example that was used. Mandalorian Enclave used it and swatted away 8 hexes with it to fire up a war, which was something new in terms of impact as well.

But even the silly one that lets us buy hexes now brought SO/GA borders together, and we've used it to get into invasions. Not necessary because you can grind your way there too, but expansion mandates can be useful for these things sometimes. We also have plans to change mandates again for a story that wouldn't be possible without the mandate, so they can definitely add something and it's not just Vassal state.

To me, Vassal state and that latest batch have made them more interesting than they were before.

 

[Tefka]

I mean, to put it in perspective, I spent some time tracking activity of other known roleplay forums over the last few months. We dwarf them in scale, with the numbers we put up being more than three times, sometimes four times that of our closest known competition. This is quantified, this cannot be ignored.

Is it Welsh’s smile? My charming good looks? Valery’s nerd aura?

Mandates? Map? Factions?

Or is it everything, adding up to a sum. And if its everything, adding up to a sum, can we ignore or denigrate parts of that equation. Probably not, imo. In my opinion, when you have the lead, you do not let it go.

Which led to me telling Staff, when Srina wanted to do more mandates, “who cares about balance, lets go ham”.

 

[Tefka]

Removing the mandates doesn't add anything to the RP experience, but keeping and making new ones clearly has added something new to the site.

Yeah, hard agree, and usually my MO

 

[Valery Noble]

My charming good looks? Valery’s nerd aura?

I agree with the above, but you swapped these around for sure smh

 

[WelshPsych]

Ugh, I wanted to “both sides” you guys’ discussion, but Welsh did that thing where he 1. Didnt shut up and 2. Posted a smilie at the end of his post.

 

[Tefka]

See ur already way more likeable, this is for the best

 

[Jonyna Si]

However, that is faction based threads. Plenty of threads on the site are completely unaffected by mandates was my point. So for a majority of writers on this site, it isn't a massive concern what mandate is available and isn't.

The way I see it, mandates were never intended to impact private threads or individual stuff.

They were meant to impact factions, the driving force behind RP currently. Where you stand in the galaxy, who your alliegances are to, who owns what, that's the big mover and shaker of Chaos RP. Yeah, we could just do private threads until the end of time, but the narrative is focused around MF clouds, and how those clash.

Mandates drive that forward in a fun way, and can impact invasions.

Beyond the Void is honestly my new favorite mandate currently, because the idea of just being able to shut down what could be a faction's big trump card is a spicy way to keep RP interesting. We wanna fight the sith? Let's shut down the dark side. That's really interesting, and could lead to some really cool RP moments.

 

[Darth Malum of House Marr]

Hi there!

A matter I was considering putting up as a suggestion but forgot to, is the magnitude of difference when it comes to mandates, not in the sense of balancing, because I know they are not intended to be balanced, but in the sense of solidity.

I believe this is best seen in the Vassal State Mandate, and likely the Hyperlane Mandate. These are Mandates that I feel, lock factions into an investment unlike any other mandates, which I believe makes the entire mandate system more inflexible as a result. In the sense that removing those mandates requires losing the hexes gained, while for the other mandates, switching only requires losing the ability to expand or whatnot, as the mandate allows.

This inflexibility leads majors who pick these mandates to essentially never pick anything else, because there is no real point in doing so, however, I admit that may be countered by saying that it is the major's fault for falling into a sunk cost fallacy, which if so granted, however, I do still believe the point has merit.

Now the obvious counter to this would be that both mandates provide enough advantage, that they have to be like this to be balanced in any regard. However, and I, unfortunately, do not have any empirical evidence to provide, just to go off vibes, would argue that the weakness of being unable to choose any other mandate unless you sacrifice all that you have invested, in story, and what else, is a bigger one than is warranted.

My idea to solve this if there was possibility for majors to have, or maybe unlock, a way to have two mandate slots.

 

[Nouqai Veil]

Violets are red
mandates are lame
if we need a scapegoat
It's Srina to blame.

#BringBackSquareGrid
#BringBackTentacles

Someone said tentacles?

 

[Jonyna Si]

This inflexibility leads majors who pick these mandates to essentially never pick anything else, because there is no real point in doing so, however, I admit that may be countered by saying that it is the major's fault for falling into a sunk cost fallacy, which if so granted, however, I do still believe the point has merit.

I always thought that was kinda the point. Using the DE as an example, they chose to use the vassal state mandate as a way to forward a Faction V Faction story, and they committed to that. They always could pull out of that, and shift to a new mandate if that story doesn't work out for some reason or another, and it could act as a new twist on the storyline, but they commited to the first one going in.

Admittedly, your faction's use of it was, and still is, unorthodox. The State of the Sith Order was set up far away from any faction when it was formed, and was mostly used as a story tool for internal sith politics, which map game stuff isn't necessarily supposed to be there for, from what I understand.

My idea to solve this if there was possibility for majors to have, or maybe unlock, a way to have two mandate slots.

I feel like this opens up a pandora's box, per say. Because then we get into the question of mandate min-maxing. Which two mandates work best together? What mandates counter each other? It's just a headache waiting to happen, imo.

 

[Srina Talon]

I believe this is best seen in the Vassal State Mandate, and likely the Hyperlane Mandate. These are Mandates that I feel, lock factions into an investment unlike any other mandates, which I believe makes the entire mandate system more inflexible as a result. In the sense that removing those mandates requires losing the hexes gained, while for the other mandates, switching only requires losing the ability to expand or whatnot, as the mandate allows.

I think you're a touch behind the times, friend. Vassal States was updated a while back to alleviate that very concern:

• When this Major Faction changes Mandates the number of hexes in the Secondary Cloud are returned to the Main Cloud. The Major Faction may choose which hexes are regained.

I'm not sure what you mean by Hyperlane Trader "locks factions in" when they can opt-out without any consequences at all. They don't lose hexes.

Admittedly, your faction's use of it was, and still is, unorthodox. The State of the Sith Order was set up far away from any faction when it was formed, and was mostly used as a story tool for internal sith politics, which map game stuff isn't necessarily supposed to be there for, from what I understand.

I wouldn't say the usage was "unorthodox" because there was never an unwritten "set use" put in place for any of the mandates. We are all storytellers at the end of the day and if a Mandate is used to stir up said stories, garner threads, etc - That's never a bad thing. It's the same thing as taking Fortress Worlds (even if they don't get invaded) and using it for story, or, any other Mandate that provides passive gains and holds the possibility of interesting writers. It also played a collaborative part in the Invasion of Tion. The map is a tool (albeit a wonderful, amazing tool) to facilitate writing...As long as that's happening? I'm not against it.

TLDR: Different strokes, different folks - It's all good.

My idea to solve this if there was possibility for majors to have, or maybe unlock, a way to have two mandate slots.

I don't think it needs to be used to solve anything at all BUT I really like mandates. >.> Twooooo you say?

 

[Valery Noble]

I personally think one mandate is fine. The stronger expansion mandates are really good, but so is Vassal state. Sure, it's not as attractive to switch away from Vassal State if the secondary cloud is there for story reasons. But like, you have two clouds on the map that you can grow and expand and attack other factions from.

That's pretty wild, so I think it's a fair trade-off.

My opinion is to keep the Mandates the way they are now, and just tweak/remove/add to it every once in a while to make things better or more interesting. No need to have more than one.

 

[Srina Talon]

But Vaaaaal twoooooooooo

 

[Valery Noble]

I don't think it's necessary, sorry The fact you only have one and have to make the choice helps keep them interesting and unique. And I feel like people who ask for two now, are gonna be the same ones asking for 3 when someone finds a combination they can't have but also want alongside whichever mandate they feel "stuck" in.

 

[Srina Talon]

But Vaaaaaaaaaaaal puppy dog eyes

I'm just kidding xD - Actually, I agree. It's a FUN thought unleashing two mandates because "chaos" is the name of the game but factions aren't really "stuck" in any mandate (Outside of the 60 day wait time for everyone...) that I know of. Mandates are a good thing. A great thing. But it might make them less special/impactful going that route.