Minor Factions Owning Planets

[Garza]

[member="The Arkanian"], Yes. As the Primeval are doing that as we speak against the Dominion Faction. However, if a Minor faction does not want to own an entire hex, or go major, and wish to stay minor, they could Rebel on one planet alone, Keep that one planet, and stay minor. Some of us don't want to play the map game as often as everyone else.

I want to offer an alternative to Major map game play.

 

[Sal Katarn]

[member="The Arkanian"], Yes. As the Primeval are doing that as we speak against the Dominion Faction. However, if a Minor faction does not want to own an entire hex, or go major, and wish to stay minor, they could Rebel on one planet alone, Keep that one planet, and stay minor. Some of us don't want to play the map game as often as everyone else.

I want to offer an alternative to Major map game play.

Limiting it to rebellions would make sense.

However, this would all be solved if the restriction on major factions ceding planets were removed. I would love to see some Sykes-Picot style negotiations going on where two major factions resolve their dispute through diplomacy instead of invasion, or after an invasion they decide to end the war by dividing up territory.

Instead, we are artificially limited in order to encourage invasions.

 

[Darth Abyss]

So just my quick, highly personal take on this as the writer behind Abyss how has been the Prophet of Malachor for quiet a while before the TRE dom on the Korriban hex happened lol. The fact that there are no rules for this left me with no other option than to ultimately surrender the world in the end, despite the fact that quite a few people have worked for or with the The Free Cities of Malachor/The Tainted Chorus over time. The cities had their own armies, their own orbital defense force, and whatever else, and yet I couldn't defend the world that I put a lot (like really a lot) work into.

Not saying that this personal experience reflects on the whole situation, but I know there are more people than me that held worlds without being a major faction, and I am sure they would feel like me when a major faction would come by and take it all away. Sure it is part of the game, but the fact that you can't win whatever you do (besides maybe rally enough people for a major faction in a few days to start a rebellion or whatever) still leaves me pretty disappointed with this.

 

[Garza]

[member="The Arkanian"], You can do that now really. Just label it as an "Invasion" and have peace talks with everybody geared up for war. Would it happen? Maybe for story purposes. Would it be fun? For some people. Would I like to see that as well? 100%.

 

[Eddak Manod]

[member="The Arkanian"]


Rules state it must have belonged to a recalled major faction or be a tier 3 Dominion

 

[Sal Katarn]

[member="The Arkanian"]
Rules state it must have belonged to a recalled major faction or be a tier 3 Dominion

Isn't that what I said?

 

[Eddak Manod]

It is either or.

Either the rebellion is on a current major faction's T3, or it is against a recalled major faction.

The fact that major factions sometimes try to purposefully keep their dominions to T2 out of fear of certain minor factions rebelling shows that minor factions do, in fact, have power.

As it was recently suggested, it isn't power. It's speed. People want the map to show their colors and not take a month to do it. Anyone who spites them could magically appear on a T3 dominion and bog it down. It's not power, it's speed. A Dominion that takes too long can die. Forgive me if I forget the name, but [member="Horus"] faction kind of died out on a lengthy Dominion already. Not even an Invasion.



Also, what are we arguing? Minors can't defend themselves at all. Even with your argument of 'but if it is a T3 dominion' yes! If it is a huge dominion taking multiple planets! But if you target just this planet, people like [member="Darth Abyss"] are powerless and defenseless!

It's like the Galactic Republic knocked on the First Order door and were all like "I'm taking your cookies" and they can't stop them. It's ridiculous. Oh, but, if the Galactic Republic went door to door, to every FO house and took all their cookies, then that is realistically different. Then it's a legal rebellion.


No, it's stupid.

 

[Sal Katarn]

I'm not sure I follow your cookie analogy, but ok.

Minors aren't defenseless. You admit they can take whole hexes. Nobody says you can't do a rebellion and then focus on one planet.

Your arguments are now resting on more logistical issues with speed and efficiency, rather than your original statement about minor factions being completely defenseless, so I think I will leave it at that.

You can make inroads to power as a minor. You just have to put in the work.

 

[Delila Castillon]

When my company gets a planet so can you minors. Til then no dice

 

[Garza]

[member="Delila Castillon"], Companies can be set up as Minor factions. Been done in the past.

 

[Delila Castillon]

[member="Atheus"] - Not the point I was making

 

[Garza]

[member="Delila Castillon"], Just offering ideas for you or others to use. Companies do have a lot of pull, but if they have enough to own a planet, then they would be considered a Minor "faction" or "Governing" body. Because there is no way a tier 4-6 company is run completely by one person alone. There are employees, guards, and other such.

That would be my argument as to why companies can't own planets because they are either 1) too small to own a planet, or 2) large enough that you should be considered a minor governing body/faction.

 

[Eddak Manod]

[member="The Arkanian"]


"You can take whole hexes" via Rebellion if you want to become Major. That's not what is being spoken.

"Your arguments are now resting on more logistical issues with speed and efficiency, rather than your original statement about minor factions being completely defenseless, so I think I will leave it at that." Tier 1 takes a single planet. Tier 2 takes two planets. These can not be made into Rebellions.

The cookie example is a Rebellion can only be made when all cookies are taken.
Not one cookie.
Not two cookies.
The entire cookie plate.


Minor factions are defenseless.



Let us take [member="Darth Abyss"] example. his entire post. It's post number 23 if you need that.

Major Faction A decides to Tier 1 Dominion Minor Faction A's planet.

TIER 1

Post Requirement For Completion: 100
Any Member Can Join: Upon Approval by Major Faction Leadership.
Any Faction Can Join: Upon Approval by Major Faction Leadership.
Gains: One Target Planet
Maximum Dominions A Major Faction Can Complete Per Month: N/A

What happens?

Can Minor Faction A fight back? No.
Can Minor Faction A call reinforcements? No.
Can Minor Faction A tell Major Faction A to stop? Yes.
Does Major Faction A have to listen? No.




How about Tier 2 Dominion?

TIER 2

Post Requirement For Completion: 110
Any Member Can Join: Yes.
Any Minor Faction Can Join: Yes.
Gains: Two Targeted Planets In The Same Hex
Maximum Dominions A Major Faction Can Complete Per Month: 3

What happens?

Can Minor Faction A fight back? Yes.
Can Minor Faction A call reinforcements? Yes.
Can Minor Faction A tell Major Faction A to stop? Yes.
Does Major Faction A have to listen? No.


In this situation, a Minor Faction can fight back and can call reinforcements. However, what if no reinforcements come? We'll give Minor Faction some members. Maybe two or three join. Maybe there are other members, but they didn't expect a Dominion to happen. You're just a Minor Faction, you don't play the map game, you're not even associated with it. Why would you ever worry?

The roleplay starts off. Now that Minor Faction A has entered, more people on the Major Factions side can join. Even if the Minor Faction has all of their forces here, they can't fight against a flagship or six 2km dreads jumping in.

Oh, and this is if Major Faction A takes you seriously enough to squash like a bug.

"But Eddak, they are a Minor faction, do you think they can rival a Major Faction?

I mean, if we wanted to ignore the Hutt Cartel, the criminal underground, or even just the iconic Rebellion, sure. Sure. I guess you're saying it's expected that a major faction is going to bring every single ship and soldier they have to this single fight? Why not, right? Not like they have to defend anything. Not other planets, not other bases. Time is relative. Haha, bring your entire fleet to this planet! Oh, some other Major Faction just declared an Invasion on one of Major Faction A's claimed planets? No problem! Full fleets in two different places at once! Ignoring the fact that a Minor Factions entire assets are on this one planet.

Anyway, back to the topic.


Oh, right. Tier 2, Minor Faction A loses.





And under a Tier 3, the same would happen, unless reinforcements arrived. Enough to counter your idea of a Major faction.

---

Oh, you wanted to know why I brought up speed and logic since you thought it had nothing to do with the conversation.


Your Argument
Major Factions don't make Tier 2+ Dominions because they think Minor Factions have power.

My Argument
It's not power, it's speed.
The longer an Invasion/Rebellion/Dominion takes, the more easily it dies.

What was that Invasion or Rebellion? Atrisia? [member="HK-36"] remind me. It was absolutely dog gone exhausting wasn't it? Did everyone stick around/finish their posts?

Proof, as proposed by Soeht. No one wants to take forever to take the map. They want to get through everything faster. "Hoist the colors" as the old pirates would say.

 

[Soeht]

People can kind of do this now. A Faction can go Major, pick their 1-3 planets, and then just not expand. Ever.

I think people on this site seem to believe that Major Factions have an obligation to expand. They don't. People are free to play the Map game how they want.

The only requirement for the Map game is just having to accept that, one day, another Faction may try to take over your planets.

And even if the member requirement for these Factions is lowered, I think it's fine. It fills up the map, which is something I think this site needs. A special type of Invasion would be required to acknowledge the fact that these Factions have fewer members than a normal Major Faction, and thus shouldn't be as rigorous in taking over.

For people complaining about Major Factions just roflstomping over people's work on planets while they were by themselves or Minor, if you talk to Major Factions and are willing to negotiate, most will leave you alone as if you're an autonomous region. It's the people that go, "I refuse to submit to anyone and will remain independent!" while not having any backup that get rolled over by Major Factions. That, and also the people that antagonized the Major Faction beforehand.

 

[Eddak Manod]

[member="Soeht"]

Why is there an obligation for the map game anyway? Going major is work and dedication that is unnecessary, unnecessary work and dedication to keep it from going inactive. Before canonically the Sith sacked Coruscant, they were unknown, held little more than what could be discovered, and took an entire planet in one go.

If their base was ever attacked, they could defend themselves. Minor doesn't mean inferior. It means they aren't an opponent. They aren't part of the great conquest. But they exist. You don't need territory color for people to know your flag is there.


Take Episode 1 TPM as an example. They didn't have a faction, but even they had National Guard equivalent forces to respond. Then the Gungans helped. A Minor faction easily has more than that. Maybe even as much as the Trade Federation had that day. The entire droid force between crew, gunners, commanders, technicians, etc

 

[Natalie LaForte]

[member="Eddak Manod"] I think the point you're making is very valid, if a Major Faction wants to dominion something, people, (or at least the local government) should be an objective. In my honest opinion, I think in terms of armies that Major Factions should have some sort of limitation imposed, if you're fighting in one place (A rebellion) then you can't simultaneously be fighting in an invasion.

Honestly, I think if a minor faction declares a rebellion it should be heavily weighted in their favour. No planet is going to give up independence at the crack of a whip, and if there were actual limitations then they wouldn't even be afraid of having an entire armada of ships surrounding the planet, and if we wanted to be honest with ourselves, an entire Navy is not going to dedicate all of their craft for a single planet; nor an entire army.

 

[Eddak Manod]

[member="Serenity Loveheart"]


Thank you. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[WolfMortum]

Unfortunately I can see both sides of this argument and being focused on Commenor since September last year with [member="Lady Kay"] and having built up the member-base we have, the list of threads that each of our members have partaken in and the submissions that we've put forward and all the rest of it, I can certainly appreciate the wish for all those works to be appreciated and not simply bypassed when a Major Faction decides "that'd look good in Galactic Alliance yellow" or some such. (Using the GA purely by example Not an previous nor current issue!).

Again, as it's been mentioned above, the amount of regulation would be headache inducing for the Administrators, codex judges and what have you. They would need to be going through (I'm assuming here), every listed minor faction of which there are god knows how many, tracking down every planet they claim to own; and if they hadn't made it clear up to this point, then that'd be immensely frustrating and frankly, I wouldn't be bothered to do the job myself so I don't expect others to either.

If there were a middle ground however, such as the unofficial thread that labels certain members interests/claims of entitlement over specific words that could be monitored and mediated just as the Codex location subs have been up until this point for example, then perhaps it would give the Minor factions a chance to better represent their worlds to the member-base on OOC terms. As far as negotiating with major factions is concerned, I like to believe this is possible, I try to go about my personal time on Chaos treating others as I'd want to be treated while keeping focus on IC interactions. Sadly, this isn't always the case as again it's been stated above that some members differ so much from others that opinions can't often find a common ground nor a compromise, to this the suggested thread labeling their interest in the planet and giving evidence to the efforts (subs and threads) around the planet might weigh in on the whole ordeal.

I'm not entirely sure how much of an official stance I can put on all of this though. I'm posting because Commenor is in this exact situation with Major Factions surrounding it and it's really only a matter of time before someone hits us. We've been active and we've got the numbers to go major, certainly, but the faction has voted to stay minor to avoid the attention that the map game brings. We've chosen to focus purely on story as best as possible while too knowing that eventually that all may be broken down and perhaps we may be forced to go major because of another Major factions interest in the world, I don't know.

At the end of the day however I feel much of this subject depends on the interactions between members of Chaos, the fairness in how we treat one another which cannot always be guaranteed. I feel like I need to state however that it's not the Administrators job to teach us how to treat one another in fairness, no one wants to be babied nor parent a site of mostly grown ass people. In an ideal situation, it'd fall to us as players to be able to work with one another but I think too much is influenced by the avoidance of OOC banter/drama which is probably too half the reason why people choose to stay Minor (this is also an assumption of mine, evidenced none).

Commenor itself is the Government power of its own world and above someone's said that minor factions under the influence of Major factions cannot run the governance of a world, so naturally that concerns me.

While I certainly agree that Minor-Factions would benefit incredibly well from a bit more emphasis or official notice of the planets they choose to reside over, I still don't have any answers to how this would be properly implemented.

TL;DR - No progress made here but certainly support the idea if it can be implemented well...

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Veiere Arenais"]

Your situation with Commenor is one where I feel negotiation is the best tactic: no Major Faction can run every world in their domains by reference to the central power of that Faction. No governor, Emperor, High Lord or whatever can be in a hundred places at once, so presumably, they need administrators to run that planet on their Faction's behalf. That's where PCs come in.

Imagine the First Order took Commenor. At this point, [member="Lady Kay"] steps forth and says "Hang on a second: I'm Queen of this planet". The FO can easily turn around and tell her to get lost, but with negotiation, they could just as easily say "Provided this world obeys FO law and pays taxes as a member world, you can keep administering to your citizenry" in which case, Commenor can maintain sovereignty and still be a legitimate part of the First Order.

A Major Faction having control over a planet doesn't mean it suddenly has to be a puppet world that ignores all prior RP done with it.

 

[WolfMortum]

[member="Tirdarius"]

This would be the ideal situation, absolutely. It would work wonders for my wish to co-operate with others on the board as opposed to having to deal with unnecessary drama, as well as complimenting In-Character interactions and even building upon other possible stories on top of said diplomacy!

My reason for posting here however was on part, awareness of Commenor's standing given it was mentioned prior but also under the concern that not everyone is willing to play ball in which case we would rebel, and I suppose from there, consider whether to go Major or otherwise (Nothing has been discussed since the original vote way back in September).

Again, I didn't have an answer to the subject around this thread but do support the fact that it's being discussed (Again), because it at the very least adhere's to peoples concerns, knowing that there are many others in the same position and for someone such as myself who's not as experienced in these things, I can at-least take on advice through talking it out with those who are!