Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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New Armor Template Brainstorm.

Rusty

Purveyor of Fine Weaponry
[member="Jamie Pyne"]

Could always offer a simplified format for newcomers and folks making basic stuff. Working on a version of that for ranged weapons to see how it works out.
 
[member="Rusty"] I would like to try and stay away from having multiple template options. Some compromise between simple to understand and encompassing of what we're looking for should be the overall goal.
 

Netherworld

Well-Known Member
I'm still not sure how necessary the mobility is? It depends a lot on who's wearing the armor, too – if you have some burly Mando or a weakass human Padawan wearing the same suit, the Mobility will vary drastically.

The breakdown for resistances looks good, imo.
 

Rusty

Purveyor of Fine Weaponry
[member="Jamie Pyne"]

I'll get into my reasoning more in depth when I make the proposal, but long story short, a simplified template could cover an awful lot of ground. All you need is a simple, easy to use template that'll let newcomers and folks who just want to have a unique toy or two alike give just enough detail to communicate what they're trying to do and you've solved the intimidation factor. Hell, one template could cover most personal tech.
 
[member="Jamie Pyne"] - I prefer the alternative resistances listing for the template, rather than what's presently in the draft, as it opens the door to folks who either hadn't made an armour submission before or were wanting to learn more about the types of damage that would be relevant to collaborative combat RP. Not every suit of armour would be theoretically made of reinforced duraplast or other semi-lightsaber resistant materials - so in my eyes that'd be wasted space.

With the text mentioning that only the items relevant to the sub should be written down, it would make submissions not only easier to be judged by our colleagues; but to be created by both new and veteran submitters with as much credible detail required for fair use in Open RP threads.
 
Netherworld said:
if you have some burly Mando or a weakass human Padawan wearing the same suit, the Mobility will vary drastically
Agreed. This really would only work for individual, unique, armors that can only effectively be worn by the person they were created and fitted for.

And, while I do like the Alternative option over what is present before it, it'd still be better to require Kinetic and Blaster resistances to be listed - these are things we need to know, and if an armor doesn't have resistance to it then it is important that it is stated in the submission through the new rating system. Simple is better, yes, but we do need to keep in mind that we still require a basic level of information to be included - and while reducing the amount of information that we're asking from people is a good step in the right direction, asking for too little is only going to turn this new rating into the old Quality rating.

  • BLASTERS ( And any other plasma type weapons): How much protection does the armour provide against this type of attack? (Choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High)
  • KINETIC: How much protection does the armour provide against this type of attack? (Choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High)
  • OTHER: How much protection does the armour provide against this type of attack? (Ballistic, Lightsaber, Sonic, Environmental, etc. Please disclose each specific type that applies to this submission.) (Choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High)
This keeps it simple, asking and only requiring resistances from the two most common types of damage, while also offering the freedom for the submitter to include additional resistances and asking that they list each specific one out as they apply to the submission.

As time goes on and we see a trend of more common "other" resistances, we can then incorporate and require that they be listed, as well, by altering the template at that time. I feel this more than covers the issue we've seen with Quality in the past, beyond simply qualifying what the previous number rating only vaguely implied before.

Regarding the Advanced Systems thing,
  • ADVANCED SYSTEMS: What are the number of advanced systems that this armor have? This includes stealth, bio-restorative technology, power armor, Force Enhancements, Alchemy Enhancements, Force Imbuement enhancements, or any similar or equivalent Force or Technologies that may be rare or specialized. If high to very high, you MUST document them in the strengths section.(Choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High)
This should be fine to add to the template, it consolidates what the submitter (and, during the judging process, the factory) perceives the quality of the submission's advanced (in the sense of being beyond the average and common systems, features, and so on) special features to be while requiring that anything which would be suitable as High or Very High to be specifically listed and explained in the strengths - this, honestly, negates the necessity for a special features field to even be in the submission as it fulfills the same purpose.

The special features portion of the submission for armors have always been the source of the most trouble, as they are, generally, the cause of the most reports, denials, and so on regarding armor submissions - aside from the rare case of insane quality to weight/material ratios - and this will give factory judges an easier time figuring out how much features an armor submission should have, how much it can potentially impact the use of the submission in roleplay, and also gives them an easier avenue of explaining what needs to be changed, as well as how.

Adding this, or even replacing the special features field with this, will also make it easier to explain to a submitter where the boundaries of a balanced submission lie - allowing a judge to better illustrate what is "too much", and even makes it easier to create examples for what is an acceptable armor submission.

My only concern, prior, was that the proposed addition had initially only stated a requirement for "Very High" to be explained in the strengths section, but, as is noted in the quote above, the proposed section would require both High and Very High advanced systems to be covered in the strengths section, effectively requiring anything that goes beyond the average feature to be stated in the strengths (i,e; You might not need to list the minimal stealth benefits of standard camouflage, but the heightened stealth benefits afforded by reflec would need to be listed in strengths - which would quantify as "high", as compared to the "Very High" of a personal cloaking device, which would also need to be listed in strengths).

[member="Raziel"] [member="Cira"] [member="Jamie Pyne"] [member="Otto Shule"] [member="Delila Castillon"] [member="Rusty"] [member="Aria Vale"] [member="Valiens Nantaris"] (you're in the discussion now, there's no escape for you) [member="Netherworld"] [member="Travis Caalgen"] (you too) [member="Haytham Kaze"]
 

Netherworld

Well-Known Member
Irina Volkov said:
Adding [ADVANCED SYSTEMS], or even replacing the special features field with this, will also make it easier to explain to a submitter where the boundaries of a balanced submission lie - allowing a judge to better illustrate what is "too much", and even makes it easier to create examples for what is an acceptable armor submission.
I'm not sure I can agree here. Deciding what type / amount of above-average special features qualify for High or Very High is, imo, super subjective.
Quantifying resistances in that system is easy, but there's way too many advanced systems, additions, enhancements, attachments, and what have you, to allow for blanket ratings such as None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High.

The FJs' differing views will impact this too much to be fair in terms of balance, and we can't feasibly comprise a list of all SW canon and Chaos tech and assign it a "value". It only works if you consider individual special systems, like your example with Reflec and a Personal cloaking device. But it gets way too complicated, way too fast, when you have a bunch of smaller things together in a sub.

I really can't see this working out in a balanced manner.
 
I'm not okay with adding both Special Features and Advanced Systems to the template. One or the other. This will pull us back into the Special Features and Advanced Special Features territory that we just got rid of due to the sheer redundancy of it. The name of it is largely irrelevant, what we require to be put in the field matters.

Also I see no reason that a category for lightsabers shouldn't be included and required if we are going the category route. The vast majority of people on this site have characters using lightsabers.

I drafted another template, with mobility removed, and I also shifted the ratings all to the top of resistances, so that it made less of a rainbow mess in the template and was easier to read.

Please add thoughts.

OUT OF CHARACTER INFORMATION

  • Intent: (Example: 'A personal weapon for Darth Scabious' or 'an advanced armored personnel carrier for the Republic')
  • Image Source: (Please link to where you found the image, or to the original artist if possible. TinEye or Google Image Search can help.)
  • Canon Link: (Please link the canon link if applicable canon item.)
  • Restricted Missions: (If your submission uses any Restricted Items link the threads you completed the missions in here)
  • Primary Source: (Please link and cite the sources which you are modifying for your use in your submission.)
PRODUCTION INFORMATION
  • Manufacturer: (Kuat Drive Yards, BlasTech Industries, [Character Name], etc.)
  • Model: (Example: E-11 Blaster Rifle. For submissions where a model wouldn't be appropriate, such as a custom walking stick, put 'N/A' for 'Not Applicable'.)
  • Affiliation: (Individual Character Name (an individual PC/NPC who is permitted to use this item), Company Name(s) (Companies authorised to use this submission), Faction Name(s) (Factions authorised to use this submission, Closed-Market (Any character can use this if they have explicit permission through, for example, a marketplace purchase), Open-Market (May be used by any character without permission from the Manufacturer), other potential options include a submitted NPC unit, or another general organisation/group.)
  • Modularity: (Can components of this submission be swapped out for other components? Is it especially easy to modify? For most submissions, put 'No'.)
  • Production: (The scale is Unique (Only One Character), Semi-Unique (Only A Handful of Characters), Limited (Only A Select Group Of NPCs/PCs), Minor (Any Character, Only Select Groups Of NPCs), Mass-Produced. (Anyone.) For armor utilizing restricted materials please review their production limits here.)
  • Material: (What is it made out of? Certain materials are more resistant, or vulnerable, to certain weapons. Example: 'Durasteel, blaster components.')
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
  • Classification: (Anti-Blaster, Anti-Ballistic, Multipurpose, Other)
  • Weight: (Via Metric System. Appropriate weight varies by quality, material, and character species. For example, standard Mandalorian armor is around 10 kg. Armor made of true Mandalorian iron, or a full set of combat gear for a soldier in the field, can be around 25kg. For special items, try to find the weight of a real-world equivalent.)
RESISTANCES (For each category choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High)
  • BLASTERS (And other plasma type weapons): How much protection does the armor provide against this type of damage?
  • KINETIC: How much protection does the armor provide against this type of damage?
  • LIGHTSABERS: How much protection does the armor provide against this type of damage?
  • OTHER: How much protection does the armor provide against this type of damage? (Examples: Sonic, EMP/ION, Elemental. Please disclose each specific type that applies to this submission with its own rating.)
SPECIAL FEATURES
  • (What are the types of advanced systems that this armor has? This includes stealth, bio-restorative technology, power armor, Force Enhancements, Alchemy Enhancements, Force Imbuement enhancements, or any similar or equivalent Force or technologies that may be rare or specialized.. - If these are notable enough to be strengths, you must add them to strengths. )
Strengths:
  • (Provide, in list format, a minimum of 1 strength of this submission. (If your armour has any specific resistances to types of attack (e.g. Ion/EMP/Lightsabers) please list these here))
Weaknesses:
  • (Provide, in list format, a minimum of 1 weaknesses of this submission.)(If your armour is vulnerable to specific types of attack (e.g. Ion/EMP/Lightsabers) please list these here)
DESCRIPTION
(Describe some of the histories behind the submission. Give us some idea of how it might perform its function, what it excels against and what some limitations of it are. This is where you talk about your idea, flesh it out over at least a good-sized paragraph, and address some of the ways it might be used or abused. For especially powerful or ambitious submissions, a very thorough description is recommended.)
 

Netherworld

Well-Known Member
Looks good to me too. It isn't bogged down with new stuff, but still requires people to list out their advantages plainly.

One last question though – if we're gonna have resistances qualified with ratings, are we still going to be putting them into Strengths/Weaknesses?

Like, say some beskar'gam has a Lightsaber resistance of Very High. Do we want them to also put super good LS resistance under Strengths?
I feel personally that it would be redundant, but I'd like to hear others' opinions.
 
Netherworld said:
Like, say some beskar'gam has a Lightsaber resistance of Very High. Do we want them to also put super good LS resistance under Strengths?
Well we make them list special features that qualify as a strength in the strengths, too, so I suppose we could.
 

Netherworld

Well-Known Member
[member="Irina Volkov"]

Why, though? It seems pretty self-evident that having a Very High resistance to something is... very high. No need to say it twice, yeah?

Special features that qualify as strengths are not necessarily obvious as strengths to everyone and/or if you don't read their links or whatever. If someone has "Faraday cage" listed under special features, not everyone reading that sub in the future might know that a faraday cage grants EMP/Ion resistance. By making the submitter list the resulting resistance under OTHER, that's already taken care of. No need to put it under Strengths too.
 
OUT OF CHARACTER INFORMATION

  • Intent: (Example: 'A personal weapon for Darth Scabious' or 'an advanced armored personnel carrier for the Republic')
  • Image Source: (Please link to where you found the image, or to the original artist if possible. TinEye or Google Image Search can help.)
  • Canon Link: (Please link the canon link if applicable canon item.)
  • Restricted Missions: (If your submission uses any Restricted Items link the threads you completed the missions in here)
  • Primary Source: (Please link and cite the sources which you are modifying for your use in your submission.)
PRODUCTION INFORMATION
  • Manufacturer: (Kuat Drive Yards, BlasTech Industries, [Character Name], etc.)
  • Model: (Example: E-11 Blaster Rifle. For submissions where a model wouldn't be appropriate, such as a custom walking stick, put 'N/A' for 'Not Applicable'.)
  • Affiliation: (Individual Character Name (an individual PC/NPC who is permitted to use this item), Company Name(s) (Companies authorised to use this submission), Faction Name(s) (Factions authorised to use this submission, Closed-Market (Any character can use this if they have explicit permission through, for example, a marketplace purchase), Open-Market (May be used by any character without permission from the Manufacturer), other potential options include a submitted NPC unit, or another general organisation/group.)
  • Modularity: (Can components of this submission be swapped out for other components? Is it especially easy to modify? For most submissions, put 'No'.)
  • Production: (The scale is Unique (Only One Character), Semi-Unique (Only A Handful of Characters), Limited (Only A Select Group Of NPCs/PCs), Minor (Any Character, Only Select Groups Of NPCs), Mass-Produced. (Anyone.) For armor utilizing restricted materials please review their production limits here.)
  • Material: (What is it made out of? Certain materials are more resistant, or vulnerable, to certain weapons. Example: 'Durasteel, blaster components.')
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
  • Classification: (Anti-Blaster, Anti-Ballistic, Multipurpose, Other)
  • Weight: (Via Metric System. Appropriate weight varies by quality, material, and character species. For example, standard Mandalorian armor is around 10 kg. Armor made of true Mandalorian iron, or a full set of combat gear for a soldier in the field, can be around 25kg. For special items, try to find the weight of a real-world equivalent.)
RESISTANCES (For each category choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High, Extreme Ratings of High, Very High, and Extreme will need to be added as strengths with elaboration.)
  • BLASTERS (And other plasma type weapons): How much protection does the armor provide against this type of damage?
  • KINETIC: How much protection does the armor provide against this type of damage?
  • LIGHTSABERS: How much protection does the armor provide against this type of damage?
  • OTHER: How much protection does the armor provide against this type of damage? (Examples: Sonic, EMP/ION, Elemental. Please disclose each specific type that applies to this submission with its own rating.)
SPECIAL FEATURES
  • (Short brief detail list on any advanced systems with a respective link to the technology if available. What are the types of advanced systems that this armor has? This includes stealth, Bio-restorative technology, power armor, Force Enhancements, Alchemy Enhancements, Force Imbuement enhancements, or any similar or equivalent Force or technologies that may be rare or specialized. - If these are notable enough to be strengths, you must add them to strengths)
Strengths:
  • (Provide, in list format, a minimum of 1 strength of this submission. Any resistance ratings of High, Very High, and Extreme will need to be added as strengths with elaboration.)
Weaknesses:
  • (Provide, in list format, a minimum of 1 weaknesses of this submission.)(If your armour is vulnerable to specific types of attack (e.g. Ion/EMP/Lightsabers) please list these here)
DESCRIPTION
(Describe some of the histories behind the submission. Give us some idea of how it might perform its function, what it excels against and what some limitations of it are. This is where you talk about your idea, flesh it out over at least a good-sized paragraph, and address some of the ways it might be used or abused. For especially powerful or ambitious submissions, a very thorough description is recommended.)



How about this?
 

Netherworld

Well-Known Member
[member="Cira"]

I don't think the Resistances need a whole new category? I'd just put them under the Technical specs, to keep it less fragmented. It's what they are, in essence, so splitting it apart further seems unnecessary.

Elsewise looks good to me.
 

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