Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Planetary/factional public finances
- Thread starter Cathul Thuku
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Ayden Cater
Grumpy Goat
[member="sabrina"]
In this case, PPP would be the better figure to use in this scenario, as opposed to nominal. If one applies the notion that, to the Star Wars galaxy, planets are equivalent to countries then the PPP figure accounts for a number of differences between national markets and gives a better basis for comparison than nominal.
In this case, PPP would be the better figure to use in this scenario, as opposed to nominal. If one applies the notion that, to the Star Wars galaxy, planets are equivalent to countries then the PPP figure accounts for a number of differences between national markets and gives a better basis for comparison than nominal.
sabrina
Well-Known Member
[member="Ayden Cater"] I prefer nominal as in that one we are 5-6th largest as pp we are 8
In compassion usa slips from 1st to the third
Though I see your point
Now do you know who we owe this 228 trillion to, as I am guessing we owe ourselves the money, as the gold standard is no longer used?
In compassion usa slips from 1st to the third
Though I see your point
Now do you know who we owe this 228 trillion to, as I am guessing we owe ourselves the money, as the gold standard is no longer used?
Ayden Cater
Grumpy Goat
[member="sabrina"]
Not sure where you're getting that $220~ trillion figure. The world debt is only about $60 trillion by all measures I can find. The US Debt is roughly $20 trillion, by far mostly self-contained (that is, we owe it to ourselves).
Not sure where you're getting that $220~ trillion figure. The world debt is only about $60 trillion by all measures I can find. The US Debt is roughly $20 trillion, by far mostly self-contained (that is, we owe it to ourselves).
sabrina
Well-Known Member
[member="Ayden Cater"] http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/05/11/number-of-the-week-total-world-debt-load-at-313-of-gdp/
The $223.3 trillion in total global debt includes public-sector debt of $55.7 trillion, financial-sector debt of $75.3 trillion and household or corporate debt of $92.3 trillion. (The figures exclude China’s shadow finance and off-balance-sheet financing.)
http://www.mybudget360.com/global-debt-total-amount-of-debt-world-gdp-to-debt-ratios/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-22/the-world-s-debt-is-alarmingly-high-but-is-it-contagious
your number was 2007, from what I can work out
The $223.3 trillion in total global debt includes public-sector debt of $55.7 trillion, financial-sector debt of $75.3 trillion and household or corporate debt of $92.3 trillion. (The figures exclude China’s shadow finance and off-balance-sheet financing.)
http://www.mybudget360.com/global-debt-total-amount-of-debt-world-gdp-to-debt-ratios/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-22/the-world-s-debt-is-alarmingly-high-but-is-it-contagious
your number was 2007, from what I can work out
Alric Kuhn
Handsome K'lor'slug
Current US Presedential candidates can't even say whether or not the Fed should raise interest rates.
Lets not try to figure out Economics on a galactic scale
Lets not try to figure out Economics on a galactic scale
Ayden Cater
Grumpy Goat
[member="sabrina"]
http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/
http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/
Cathul Thuku
Admiral, Therapy Command
Public finances can be a motivation behind someone's wanting to oust a planetary ruler. However I do not think public finances should be attempted on larger scale than a single planet, or maybe system, for a given character.
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"] Even that wildly inconsistent treatment of economics in SW canon is better than Chaos'. In canon you see wars started for economic reasons (Bacta War, among others), you see embargoes launched by a faction against another...
While I agree, the canonical treatment isn't great by any stretch, it speaks volumes about why I want to write properly about public finances under that alt, and advice to do so. Maybe it will get other writers to properly write about public finances if they end up governing planets, if they see what proper writing about public finances is like.
[member="Lily Kuhn"] You do understand that the fortune of smaller planets (population-wise) fluctuate a lot more than that of larger planets: a change of 0.1% in unemployment rate just won't mean the same to Empress Teta than to Azure in absolute terms. Remember: IC financial publications WILL quote hard numbers without fail.
To me, hard numbers give me a way, way better sense of what and where the IC consequences will lie, and allow to write more consistenly about them. If Cathul learned Force-healing, even to apprentice level, she would save Azure 300k credits in healthcare expenditures: for a planet with just 1-2k in population at this time, it's a fortune, and as Azure's population grows, alongside her skill as a Force-healer, that 300k will become 1-2M (but the cost-effectiveness of Force-healers tapers off past a certain point).
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"] Even that wildly inconsistent treatment of economics in SW canon is better than Chaos'. In canon you see wars started for economic reasons (Bacta War, among others), you see embargoes launched by a faction against another...
While I agree, the canonical treatment isn't great by any stretch, it speaks volumes about why I want to write properly about public finances under that alt, and advice to do so. Maybe it will get other writers to properly write about public finances if they end up governing planets, if they see what proper writing about public finances is like.
[member="Lily Kuhn"] You do understand that the fortune of smaller planets (population-wise) fluctuate a lot more than that of larger planets: a change of 0.1% in unemployment rate just won't mean the same to Empress Teta than to Azure in absolute terms. Remember: IC financial publications WILL quote hard numbers without fail.
To me, hard numbers give me a way, way better sense of what and where the IC consequences will lie, and allow to write more consistenly about them. If Cathul learned Force-healing, even to apprentice level, she would save Azure 300k credits in healthcare expenditures: for a planet with just 1-2k in population at this time, it's a fortune, and as Azure's population grows, alongside her skill as a Force-healer, that 300k will become 1-2M (but the cost-effectiveness of Force-healers tapers off past a certain point).
Gna Grimwasp
Bad ass space fairy
No planets here move along.
B E A C O N
I guess, but planets like Teta and Coruscant have a population over 80 trillion. It's impossible to create an accurate anything without information like taxes and such.Cathul Thuku said:
[member="sabrina"]
The world debt is absolutely meaningless. It's the combined debt of every nation and company and person.
Good Ol' Scoundrel
Trying real economics on a galactic scale is suicidal. As someone made the analogy of a medieval peasant and globalization.
Cathul Thuku
Admiral, Therapy Command
[member="Lily Kuhn"] So I should make clear what Azure's tax brackets are (for businesses and individuals)?
B E A C O N
Look up what a GDP is, that will give you an idea on what you're dead set on doing.Cathul Thuku said:
Nick Sept
Worst Ghost in the Galaxy
There's no canon economics in Star Wars because frankly it's hard to model the economic interchanges of societies that are ranging from post-scarcity to medieval at the same time. The currency in usage (Glactic credits) is literally older than any existant government by several millennia. The export and import market is dominated by a control of hypser-space fuel and distribution, and some planets willfully avoid all technology and intentional exclude themselves form the galactic market, like Cerea and Atmos.
What's the cost of energy in a reality where hypermatter makes every known reactor prior obsolete? What does a tax base for a national population numbering the upper billions even look like? What kind of bureaucracy is needed to oversee the collection of dues from a thousand worlds? Would regional qualitative easing on Tattoine alter the economic climate on Hoth? Is a tourism-oriented planet like Zeltros remotely sustainable? Who authorized the creation of using entire planets as scrapyards? How does one secure rights to an entire planet for economic or political control?
Frankly, the reason nobody deals with these questions is fairly simple. You have a few options:
What's the cost of energy in a reality where hypermatter makes every known reactor prior obsolete? What does a tax base for a national population numbering the upper billions even look like? What kind of bureaucracy is needed to oversee the collection of dues from a thousand worlds? Would regional qualitative easing on Tattoine alter the economic climate on Hoth? Is a tourism-oriented planet like Zeltros remotely sustainable? Who authorized the creation of using entire planets as scrapyards? How does one secure rights to an entire planet for economic or political control?
Frankly, the reason nobody deals with these questions is fairly simple. You have a few options:
- Economics works at the speed of plot, and is determined by the consensus of participants. This is the easy answer. It is a hand-wave, but it is functional.
- You create some sort of model based on dice-rolling and math and weirdness, and try to convince both staff and others that your system is passable flaws and all. Much like fleeting, most people won't be interested, and the few that are will all have better ways in their head to model entirely subjective methods of economic thought.
- You steal a quantum computing server from a lab in Sweden and convince seven economists, two futurists, and one really drunk Poly sic major to help you spend five years making an actual mathematical model for this that makes sense. If you've got a couple million dollars to do this with, then I envy you.
War
I have ten fingers (luckily) anything beyond that for make believe is wasting time I don't have.
Cathul Thuku
Admiral, Therapy Command
I was asking for ways to better write about one planet's public finances without necessarily having to drag the entire galaxy into this - the consensus here is that it wouldn't work without doing just that, and modeling a galactic economy is just out of our current knowledge of economics.
Cathul already accomplish medical functions ICly with space magic on the one hand, but how to better play this whole "rebuilding-an-abandoned-planet" arc without having to invoke public finances at every corner on the other hand?
Cathul already accomplish medical functions ICly with space magic on the one hand, but how to better play this whole "rebuilding-an-abandoned-planet" arc without having to invoke public finances at every corner on the other hand?
Zonia Kalranoos
Caveat emptor
[member="Cathul Thuku"]
I wanted to issue GA bonds to fund the restoration of Coruscant in this thread.
Thought it would be nice fluff - if GA stops winning, price of debt goes up and pretty much GA as central authority would be unable to repay principal and interest.
I've also tried to establish a stock exchange on Coruscant, but Aram never replied.
What Zonia now does as an economist is Planetary Dev Project and deals with companies for GA. Might even sub a public company which is owned by GA. But I am a rookie.
I wanted to issue GA bonds to fund the restoration of Coruscant in this thread.
Thought it would be nice fluff - if GA stops winning, price of debt goes up and pretty much GA as central authority would be unable to repay principal and interest.
I've also tried to establish a stock exchange on Coruscant, but Aram never replied.
What Zonia now does as an economist is Planetary Dev Project and deals with companies for GA. Might even sub a public company which is owned by GA. But I am a rookie.
Jsc
Disney's Princess
[member="Cathul Thuku"]
1. Ignore it.
2. Ignore it.
3. Put the number into something other than credits. (IE: 1,000,000 Chitin Pips. 2,000,000 Parkway Dipos. 3,000,000 Tefka Dollars. See. These figures are completely meaningless while also still being technically correct to the amount of wealth you wish to spend. We as your audience just have to activate our goodly little 'suspension of disbelief' and then we're all good to go.)
P.S. You still owe me 30 Putin Coins and a bagel.
1. Ignore it.
2. Ignore it.
3. Put the number into something other than credits. (IE: 1,000,000 Chitin Pips. 2,000,000 Parkway Dipos. 3,000,000 Tefka Dollars. See. These figures are completely meaningless while also still being technically correct to the amount of wealth you wish to spend. We as your audience just have to activate our goodly little 'suspension of disbelief' and then we're all good to go.)
P.S. You still owe me 30 Putin Coins and a bagel.
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