Quality vs Quantity?

[Jeron Verity]

[member="Galven Solomon"]

What I'm getting at is, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. Simple courtesy.

I agree, but lately, this has been used as a getaway card for those that do not-nice things, which causes me to no longer care.

Otherwise, it was wrong of me to say such a thing, though fantastic is a high rating, not necessarily saying the individual is of a low rating, I do withdraw the comment

 

[Eralam]

Not gonna lie. Crappy spelling and grammar irritate me like nothing else. It's like herpes for my eyes.

That said.

Chaos is its own sort of animal. There are a lot of folks on here that don't speak English as a first language. There are folks that are so dyslexic they can't string more than three letters together without karking it up. There are a million different reasons why someone might not be able to write coherently, up to and including being a blithering idiot.

What you'll soon come to realize is that it doesn't matter. Some folks on here would be published authors if not for circumstances. Others are expecting a restraining order from the English language for assault and battery. This is a place for everyone with a love for Star Wars and a willingness to write in that universe. What matters is that they're here, and as such deserve to be treated with the respect and dignity afforded every other writer on the site. Anything less reflects more poorly on you than it does them.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Well, isn't that already what we've done? Look at the faction leaders of the Jedi Order, SSC, One Sith. They are able writers and do a fantastic job. How come promotions to faction leader or even slightly lower are only given to good, able writers if the community is non-discriminatory? The fact is, you will not see someone a faction leader if they only write 1-2 sentences per post.

Being the person who doesn't want to insult people, I'll go ahead and say there are certain factions which are led by people I am less than impressed by. I've also seen faction leaders perform 1-2 sentence posts, so that isn't exactly valid.

Another issue that is sometime's tied to the first is the problem of some characters having ridiculous equipment or backstories. I will not name characters, as that is very rude, but if you go through the character profiles, you will people creating characters that make honestly no logical sense. If I created a character that was wielding Bane's original lightsaber, no one would call me on it? What if I wrote in on one of my characters that I had Luke Skywalkers original blue lightsaber? These are the things that sometimes get passed by, and they make no sense. Granted, I haven't seen characters god-modding or anything, which is good, but still.

Welcome to star wars, where there are characters in canon who do exactly like you say - example A being General Grievous using Darth Zannah's lightsaber, or example B being Darth Vader wearing Skere Kaan's mandalorian crushgaunts - both nearly 1000 years after their time. The use and re-use of canon artifacts is something the actual star wars universe does consistently, whether it be holocrons or not, because it is a fictional universe where objects held by important people are sought after and hold almost as much importance as the people who used them. It isn't outlandish to say you're wearing Darth Bane's bath robe or using Ki-Adi-Mundi's lightsaber, especially when there are hundreds of examples in canon of exactly the same sort of thing happening. Holocrons are the most famous objects to be passed down or found and discovered throughout star wars canon, objects which survive thousands of years.

And you are correct, but some factions look like they are having a serious issue with getting trainers together. If a newer member wants to role-play and get their character going, they might have to deal with a trainer that may not be able to cobble a sentence together.

There are more apprentices than there are masters, this has nothing to do with literacy in master rank force users. Even those of us who are masters and pass your imaginary grade for literacy and competency don't necessarily want to be used as easily-accessible tools for people to rush towards mastery, most of us don't create a character and achieve master rank status (which requires voting, by the way, twice) just to train other apprentices to master. I, for one, have only ever taken on one apprentice, and while that was going well they no longer are active on the site - do I think I'll ever take an apprentice again? Maybe, but it won't be just anyone.

There are role-players on the site that are in teaching roles that I don't think should be there.

That's fine. Then help them learn. Don't just shove them away from an opportunity to grow. Do you think literate people were born with the ability to write great?

I have seen character profiles with 4-5 lines that barely make up a character

I can spring up NPCs from nowhere, give them just as much of a fleshed out backstory, history, and skillset - personality and nuances included - in the same post they are introduced. This is how I handle my characters, too. All of my biographies for each character weren't done until their first thread was at least started, if not finished. Your biography isn't what makes a character, the writer and the threads they take part in are what make a character. There are some characters with especially barebones biographies written by talented writers who weave great stories, and there are some who put a huge amount of effort into their bios and don't even scrape the surface of their character's potential, or don't even have the capacity to write well in a narrative format. In fact, I'll go create a character, right now, with a very small, short, and vague biography then do a thread or post somewhere just to make a point.

that character skill does not always match writing skill.

I can outsmart probably anyone I get involved with, in my opinion, and probably can write my way out of any situation - does that mean that my apprentice character should be a master (or I guess knight, as I'm no longer writing any apprentice-tier characters) or that people who can't write as well or think like I do should be stuck as apprentices? No. Character skill is character skill, writing skill is writing skill - one is in-character/in-universe, the other is out-of-character/out-of-universe. Just because my IQ is 142 doesn't mean I should be sped through promotions with every character, nor should people who don't have much practice or talent with writing be held back from writing a Jedi Master/Sith Lord/Witch Elder/Etc. This is an insurmountable argument, the only side that is going to prevail on this is the objective portion that give everyone the same opportunities. To become a knight you need to be promoted by your master (who can be a knight) or by an RPJ or something of the sort (see: Character Promotion rules), to become a master you need to be nominated in your faction by a master tier character (or your master, if they are a master) and then voted on by every master in that faction. If you succeed in that process, your nomination goes to the RPJs who then repeat this vote. Pass that? You're a master. Are there times I don't think someone should have been made a master based on character development? Yes, actually. But I've never taken their ability to match me in writing as something to base my view on, because quite simply that is not fair and usually isn't something they have great control over.

This isn't the first time this subject has come up, and the last time it was headed by people who actually came out and flatly said they were elitist and wanted to get rid of undesirables via bio combing, and the fact of the matter is that it just simply will not happen.

 

[Ellie Mors]

By the way, I wear/own the Darth Bane's robes, the holocrons of Naga Sadow, Darth Andeddu, and Marka Ragnos, and my character was born 10,270 years ago.

 

[Natasi Fortan]

I have a foot in both camps. First, you have to let people roleplay what and how they want. But you also have to choose the level of dumbfuckery to which you are willing to expose yourself. There's a good reason why some people stay away from group threads and other scenarios where they can't control who they are writing with. I know there are people who struggle and are making every effort, but there is something disrespectful about being expected to slog through indecipherable material in order to advance a story or participate in a thread. .

 

[Ellie Mors]

Perhaps not, but it is better to embrace that than to shun everyone who is not. Actively help them, don't scowl and walk away. Everyone on this site has become a better writer than who they were when they joined.

My first thread,

My best post.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Avadreia Lacroix"] has a point. If you don't enjoy writing with people whose writing has trait X -- absolutely can't bring yourself to do it -- doing your own thing is a higher quality response than trying to force your personal tastes and standards on a community that will never fit them.

 

[Geneviève Lasedri]

I can outsmart probably anyone I get involved with, in my opinion, and probably can write my way out of any situation - does that mean that my apprentice character should be a master (or I guess knight, as I'm no longer writing any apprentice-tier characters) or that people who can't write as well or think like I do should be stuck as apprentices? No. Character skill is character skill, writing skill is writing skill - one is in-character/in-universe, the other is out-of-character/out-of-universe. Just because my IQ is 142 doesn't mean I should be sped through promotions with every character, nor should people who don't have much practice or talent with writing be held back from writing a Jedi Master/Sith Lord/Witch Elder/Etc. This is an insurmountable argument, the only side that is going to prevail on this is the objective portion that give everyone the same opportunities. To become a knight you need to be promoted by your master (who can be a knight) or by an RPJ or something of the sort (see: Character Promotion rules), to become a master you need to be nominated in your faction by a master tier character (or your master, if they are a master) and then voted on by every master in that faction. If you succeed in that process, your nomination goes to the RPJs who then repeat this vote. Pass that? You're a master. Are there times I don't think someone should have been made a master based on character development? Yes, actually. But I've never taken their ability to match me in writing as something to base my view on, because quite simply that is not fair and usually isn't something they have great control over.

Humility is another one of her great qualities.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

Don't like it, don't do it. Can't do what you want because of it, or those doing it? Then you aren't trying hard enough, are way too picky, or need to go make your own playground. This is the most inclusive and balanced site I've found for RP, period. If you can't find someway to get your jollies off here, then... I have bad news for you in regards to the problems you are decrying.

 

[Jack Mirrikh]

[member="Apotheosis"]

I make it a habit to avoid smacking on someone's grammar and role playing. If they're a bad role player, I will ignore them. Here's an example. This character by the name of William comes into a Red Ravens thread. We're just casually and discretely meeting. For some reason, William comes into the same bar, claims that we start shooting at him, and runs out saying that he got shot in the arm.

We don't mention him back or have anything to do with him except for when Aaron said, "A strange armored man who was coked out on drugs stumbled around the cantina, shot himself and left." We laughed; we moved on.

I haven't seen it first hand, but I do disagree with the unskilled writers becoming masters bit.

 

[Darth Ferus]

[member="Ashin Varanin"]

But look who has more likes

 

[Miss Blonde]

I like pie. I should buy a pie.

 

[Arlan Zy'rosh]

Most Role-Play sites I've been a member of always have two main requirements that SWCRP does not.

1. Character Sheets must be approved by an admin before said character can Role-Play.

2. Literate Quality enforcement. A minimum quality of what is acceptable per post in terms of grammar, sentence structuring, and the like.

Now really those rules never bothered me because I always go all out on my CS and in posts, but some people just do not. As far as I've seen on this site instead of enforcing those sort of rules admins and fellow players offer criticism and guidance to better their peers. That's fine, and in truth works just as well as rules for most cases because most Human beings that aren't jerks tend to accept advice when given.

I myself do tend to stick to private Role-Plays when I can help it, not because I think I'm better than certain other members, but because I don't want to type out an elaborate three paragraph post with all I've got and have it answered by a one liner. Private Role-Plays exist for that reason, for within them you can dictate what is and is not acceptable.

 

[Noire]

I just Roleplay regardless.

I just want posts for character development. No posts means no char dev

And that makes me a sad panda.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

"Apoth, who cares. Let people role-play how they want."

 

[Darth Ferus]

[member="Arlan Zy'rosh"]

If I could make my character profiles as nice as some I've seen, I'd feel awesome.

I just don't have the time. I think it's wonderful for people to slap together a character profile and get right to RP without worrying about the real details. I just stopped working three jobs yesterday, and in this economy I think a lot of people are doing something similar.


Small posts doesn't mean less quality. Just sometimes its far easier to writer a single paragraph, especially if there isn't much to write to begin with, to progress the story when you can. I get a couple hours to post a day with my current work week (and far less given I have to resort to the dreaded and terrible phone posting) so small slow paced threads are amazing.

Also, I wasn't calling you out of anything Arlan. Just agreeing with the awesomeness that is the lack of needing admin approval for character profiles.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

From a staff perspective, vetting bios is an inefficient and highly subjective process. It would consume a massive amount of time and yield little results. Indeed it would be counter productive because of the frustration it would inflict.

 

[Jsc]

This is why I spend so much time on painting my avatars and sigs so pretty. Because my writing is pretty poor and I put at least a dozen commas in the wrong places every post.

Apothesis hates me.

 

[Apotheosis]

[member="Braith Achlys"]

The passing down of canon items, including Holocrons, is fine. I have no issue with that in the slightest. My problem is with someone creating a character that somehow got ahold of Vaders Mask and when asked how, they respond "Because I wanted it." The actual characters in Star Wars that have these artifacts gained them through their storyline. Grevious received Zannah's lightsaber because he killed a Dark Jedi that had it passed down to him. I've seen people on this website claim certain artifacts but not tell where they got it from. It's not in their history or anything. They just have Darth Malaks jaw piece because hey, its cool.

And when I said people creating profiles with 4-5 lines, I don't mean in their history alone. I'm saying they create their own template, write 4-5 lines, and that's it. And no says anything. No one gives them criticism and says, hey, you should probably stick to the template we have. This is not ALWAYS the case, but I've seen it before. Its not helpful to the role-player, and its not helpful to the site over all.

[member="Avadreia Lacroix"]

This is sort of my point here. Some people stay out of certain group or scenario threads because they do not want to get bogged down when someone enters the thread that obviously has issues writing/role-playing. It's even more disrespectful when that person joins in the scenario and you find out that they are a Jedi Master but they can barely string two sentences together. Its bloody annoying to have to stop and decipher their writing.

[member="Jack Mirrikh"]

Ah, the old "Well, if they come into the thread and change everything, just ignore them" idea. I've seen this, and it does work. If 3 Jedi are meeting publicly to discuss the failing of the Jedi leadership, and a guy randomly barges into the thread screaming obscenities and killing random civilians just for the hey of it, most would just ignore him, like you said. However, I've seen this backfire, where the person barging into the thread and then being ignored actually claims that the members were discriminating against him for his writing style. I feel like this might happen at Chaos, and I would hate to see it. Again, I might be completely overreacting and should shut up.

[member="Arlan Zy'rosh"]

This is completely normal, but what happens when you are involved with a scenario or battle thread and you do not have the luxury of keeping out those that respond with one liners? To me, its entirely frustrating, and defeats the overall purpose of my writing. If I write out a 3 paragraph, detailed battle scene and you respond with "lol kek i block your attack", I'm going to get angry. And then to find out that person is a Jedi or SIth Master? Seriously?



I am definitely in the minority when it comes to this, which is fine. I assumed others were like me, but I see that it is not the case. Again, I apologize if my comments at any one time were insulting or rude. I am not an elitist in the slightest, I just believe that sometimes, bios should be looked at to make sure nothing edging near God-Modding is happening.

 

[Sinistra]

Not every post needs to be 5 paragraphs of flowery exposition. Sometimes, you need to advance the action and move it along. I enjoy the exchanges between characters.

Sometimes my posts are 5 sentences. Sometimes it's like a short story of thoughts bouncing around their happy little heads. The effort I put in depends on the rest of the group. Large thread with lots of people means shorter posts. Personal thread with me and one other person, longer posts with more thoughts and reflections.

My bios are always going to be short. I'm a larper. As the staff of my larp said, the backstory is meaningless for the most part. Make the game your story. I would rather advance my character development through the experiences she has on the boards, than a history I make up for her.

I came here to write with others and that's what I strive for. So gimme short, gimme flawed, gimme whatever you want. As long as you give me something.