As someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight either way, this seems to be a very good response on how it isn't OOC politicking and it deserves a real answer to this question.Chevu Visz said:
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Roche - a question
- Thread starter Nubica Felidae
- Start date
James Justice
Charting new Paths
Well here is what I am going to do;
James is going to lead his fleet and they are going to privateer. We are going to fight, to crush, and to do our darndest to fight this out. It has nothing to do with darksiders on either faction.
2) James was asked by an ally to do so. And James sticks with his own. If they ask, he will continue to help. Is this person a darksider? No. They are a lightsider for real. ((NAME DROP: Lady Kay.)). They want to make the GR great again from the inside. And, well James will do that too. He stands for that, as much as they ask. And, yes along the way he will break the law. But he stands by his own, period. And any Mandos who stand by their own who mean well, he will forgive.
3) James doesn't know of darksiders vying for power on either side. Does Rygen, the real human who made the character know what they are? Absolutely. He can read the tags. He also knows what the Force is. He knows its why James is able to do what he can. Does James? Not the slightest. Same token, I have fought along darksiders willingly; only because James knew it not IC, even if I did OOC.
Does that mean anything? Probably not. Should it? I dunno. I am relatively new here and adamantly know very little. But just what I am doing and why. Act accordingly, friends.
James is going to lead his fleet and they are going to privateer. We are going to fight, to crush, and to do our darndest to fight this out. It has nothing to do with darksiders on either faction.
Why are we doing this?
1) James believes that the common man is more important than dogma. If the Mandos invade here, they will take other inhabited systems. People will die. Cities will burn. Rape. Ravagings. He won't let that happen, not when he can stop it.2) James was asked by an ally to do so. And James sticks with his own. If they ask, he will continue to help. Is this person a darksider? No. They are a lightsider for real. ((NAME DROP: Lady Kay.)). They want to make the GR great again from the inside. And, well James will do that too. He stands for that, as much as they ask. And, yes along the way he will break the law. But he stands by his own, period. And any Mandos who stand by their own who mean well, he will forgive.
3) James doesn't know of darksiders vying for power on either side. Does Rygen, the real human who made the character know what they are? Absolutely. He can read the tags. He also knows what the Force is. He knows its why James is able to do what he can. Does James? Not the slightest. Same token, I have fought along darksiders willingly; only because James knew it not IC, even if I did OOC.
Does that mean anything? Probably not. Should it? I dunno. I am relatively new here and adamantly know very little. But just what I am doing and why. Act accordingly, friends.
Failure Is Not Fatal
[member="Avalore Eden"]
Myself and @Gabriel Semolina look forward to seeing you immediately following (or during) the invasion
Myself and @Gabriel Semolina look forward to seeing you immediately following (or during) the invasion
Nubica Felidae
We are well and truly forked...
I feel kind of bad for this thread as, after all, I started it. But I had some valid (I believe) concerns that I wanted to get a better understanding of. And I believed it was better to ask publicly, so we all understood the answers and were in alignment.
I just chatted to someone on Skype and considered holding my tongue here. But I couldn't. And hopefully I'm not fanning any dying embers.
My view is simple. If we all act IC...where is the harm? If we all just do as our character would dictate, what's the problem? As long as we accept IC consequences, then that's fine.
And that's no veiled threat, just reality. Nubica? A former TJO Jedi and member of the GR. In truth, there's no love lost leaving the GR. So she'd take no interest in the fight with the Mandos. Entirely IC. If she heard a GA Jedi fought against a TJO Jedi? Then that would be an entirely different story. The Mandos are invading and TJO have been asked by the Republic to defend a GR planet (of sorts LOL).
To be true to the character (which a lot of people are asking for here I believe) she'd have to reconsider being a part of an organisation that would willingly attack TJO. Please, please remember that IC it is the Mandos that are attacking. TJO are defending.
Reflect on how TJO would view the GA? And a fair counter is that one GA member does not equal the Faction. Well it seems Ms Ticon is the only FU that is being considered as representative of the whole GR. Nobody has mentioned all the Jedi that are doing their sworn duty to defend the Republic.
With another character I know I'm going to have to unravel the upcoming mess that is TJO fighting TJO. Entirely IC driven and so perfectly valid - I'm not going to suggest otherwise. But to repeat...IC actions have IC consequences. That's why we RP, surely?
So let's not worry about it. Rather we should embrace it
I just chatted to someone on Skype and considered holding my tongue here. But I couldn't. And hopefully I'm not fanning any dying embers.
My view is simple. If we all act IC...where is the harm? If we all just do as our character would dictate, what's the problem? As long as we accept IC consequences, then that's fine.
And that's no veiled threat, just reality. Nubica? A former TJO Jedi and member of the GR. In truth, there's no love lost leaving the GR. So she'd take no interest in the fight with the Mandos. Entirely IC. If she heard a GA Jedi fought against a TJO Jedi? Then that would be an entirely different story. The Mandos are invading and TJO have been asked by the Republic to defend a GR planet (of sorts LOL).
To be true to the character (which a lot of people are asking for here I believe) she'd have to reconsider being a part of an organisation that would willingly attack TJO. Please, please remember that IC it is the Mandos that are attacking. TJO are defending.
Reflect on how TJO would view the GA? And a fair counter is that one GA member does not equal the Faction. Well it seems Ms Ticon is the only FU that is being considered as representative of the whole GR. Nobody has mentioned all the Jedi that are doing their sworn duty to defend the Republic.
With another character I know I'm going to have to unravel the upcoming mess that is TJO fighting TJO. Entirely IC driven and so perfectly valid - I'm not going to suggest otherwise. But to repeat...IC actions have IC consequences. That's why we RP, surely?
So let's not worry about it. Rather we should embrace it
Chevu Visz
Question everything
I'm not trying to fan flames either nor point fingers, but I have to ask this:
If I say something like "my character is going to go after thus-and-so," for a different reason than other characters, will my OOC motives be questioned and dissected by writers in this faction?
At the very least, if someone didn't like or agree with my IC motives, or felt that they were OOC-driven, I would hope that he/she would ping me on skype or PM me and ask for clarification before going off on the forums about it.
Also, just a reminder: Our characters don't have to act rationally. Sometimes they do things that don't make sense to other writers. And we as writers should try and respect the fact that others' characters may say and do things that shake up the status quo. (Besides, internal conflict could inspire really amazing stories!)
IMO, saying what your character is going to do or mentioning that certain things might have IC consequences, shouldn't be taken by the community as an OOC witch hunt, especially if those crying witch hunt so have provided absolutely no proof to back those statements.
(I think I'm, in essence, saying the same thing here as [member="Nubica Felidae"], but probably not saying it as politely or as eloquently.)
If I say something like "my character is going to go after thus-and-so," for a different reason than other characters, will my OOC motives be questioned and dissected by writers in this faction?
At the very least, if someone didn't like or agree with my IC motives, or felt that they were OOC-driven, I would hope that he/she would ping me on skype or PM me and ask for clarification before going off on the forums about it.
Also, just a reminder: Our characters don't have to act rationally. Sometimes they do things that don't make sense to other writers. And we as writers should try and respect the fact that others' characters may say and do things that shake up the status quo. (Besides, internal conflict could inspire really amazing stories!)
IMO, saying what your character is going to do or mentioning that certain things might have IC consequences, shouldn't be taken by the community as an OOC witch hunt, especially if those crying witch hunt so have provided absolutely no proof to back those statements.
(I think I'm, in essence, saying the same thing here as [member="Nubica Felidae"], but probably not saying it as politely or as eloquently.)
Failure Is Not Fatal
We're not even in this one, and we'll still find a way to get hurt!Jacen Voidstalker said:
Gabriel Sionoma
Sheriff of Sulon
@Jacen Voidsalter and @Gabriel Salmonella always find a way. Always
Avalore Eden
If there be light...
*sighs forever*
Failure Is Not Fatal
@Galadriel you want to just assume we get wiped out somehow and start a thread where Avalore has to nurse us back to health now?
Keepin Corellia Weird
Ok.... So, apparently there is an issue and I am saying something unclearly... So, before I respond to the actual contents of [member="Chevu Visz"] 's post, I need to address that to make sure we are all on the same page. Firstly, the definition of meta/metagaming.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming
Secondly, what I actually said, which was NOT to directly accuse Corey of metagaming this knowledge for his own actions. I have no doubts or confusions of his ability, rightfully so, to go after the Mandos on his own terms, by himself. That is fine. That is fitting for his character. If you read what I posted, you would see that. But I am reposting it in a quote below, with what is relevant to immersion/meta being an issue. I will also, immediately following that, quote the section Corey posted which is my biggest issue with his actions regarding things.
So, here are the two quotes, directly from Corey, which pertain to my issue. Particularly relevant parts are bolded or otherwise made to stick out. Some parts of the post I believe to be irrelevant were edited out.
Getting a bit out of order here, but going with the second quote first, as it is the biggy. He is announcing here, OOCly, that Galactic Alliance members are weapons free to attack other Galactic Alliance members, and by the phrase 'weapons free' that would imply there would be no reprisal against them for doing so (particularly since the Faction Owner said it).
Now, his basis for this? Limited IC knowledge that only his character has. Period. That is all there is for this. This knowledge has not publicly declared to the GA people in any way, by Corey, by one of the NPC leaders. There was been no mandate or declaration from the GA in any form on this against the Mandalorians, or Muad'dib. So literally, the only person who knows this right now? Coren. Which means he himself is more than justified to go after people. But he is going to meet a pretty logical wall when they go 'Ummmm.. Sorry dude, didn't know about that'.
Also... Authorizing others to fight/attack/do pretty much what they want against anyone against the GR (not just in this invasion, by his statements, btw, but at all) because of knowledge they did not, in any form, gain ICly, is at the very least breaking the setting and immersion of the game. At the worst, as I said originally, and still say now it flirts with metagaming. Note that now... Note it VERY well. It's situational. You could come out with possible reasons via OOC it wouldn't be. But they're all very weak in my eyes. So I said it 'flirts' with meta when Corey gives a blanket 'weapons free' order for the entire faction with no IC basis. If Coren wants to go after the Mandos himself? Very justified. He knows Muad is a Sith. If Coren wants to announce this all publicly, In Character, and then push for the actual IC leaders of the Alliance to affirm such a blanket decision? Again, that is very justifiable, given what he knows.
As it stands, his 'weapons free' order, which is utterly without any sort of limits, caveats, or any sort of IC basis beyond his personal knowledge, goes way beyond what it should. Period. There is no defense of it, no justification of it, besides limited and not widespread IC knowledge that is exclusively known by one member of the Galactic Alliance. We had an entire trial for Chevu 'sleeping with a Sith' and ICly it is being roleplayed that GA members still don't understand what she did with Gabe/Rev/Whoever. So how this information Coren knows, but hasn't told the entire faction about, is supposed to justify his 'weapons free' edict is... Well frankly it is beyond me.
I believe if you read the information above, fully and carefully, i've outlined my issue as clearly as possible. As it stands right know, I knew everything you said already. And you are right, for Coren to go after the Mandos maks perfect sense. For him. Personally. But not as a faction wide mandate. And I addressed the latter issue, not the former as you seem to think. Personally, Corey is free to have Coren fight in a frilly pink tutu and have tea with the Dark Lord of the Sith every other Tuesday, if he wants. Not my business, or my care, or my worry.
I never once dictated or addressed him playing out his own personal vendetta. My issue has always and only been him issuing a faction wide edict and set of instructions with absolutely nothing to base it on ICly. I hope this clarifies that. If not, please let me know where I am still not making my points clear, and I can further endeavor to clarify them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming
Secondly, what I actually said, which was NOT to directly accuse Corey of metagaming this knowledge for his own actions. I have no doubts or confusions of his ability, rightfully so, to go after the Mandos on his own terms, by himself. That is fine. That is fitting for his character. If you read what I posted, you would see that. But I am reposting it in a quote below, with what is relevant to immersion/meta being an issue. I will also, immediately following that, quote the section Corey posted which is my biggest issue with his actions regarding things.
Julius Sedaire said:
So, here are the two quotes, directly from Corey, which pertain to my issue. Particularly relevant parts are bolded or otherwise made to stick out. Some parts of the post I believe to be irrelevant were edited out.
Coren Starchaser said:
Coren Starchaser said:
Getting a bit out of order here, but going with the second quote first, as it is the biggy. He is announcing here, OOCly, that Galactic Alliance members are weapons free to attack other Galactic Alliance members, and by the phrase 'weapons free' that would imply there would be no reprisal against them for doing so (particularly since the Faction Owner said it).
Now, his basis for this? Limited IC knowledge that only his character has. Period. That is all there is for this. This knowledge has not publicly declared to the GA people in any way, by Corey, by one of the NPC leaders. There was been no mandate or declaration from the GA in any form on this against the Mandalorians, or Muad'dib. So literally, the only person who knows this right now? Coren. Which means he himself is more than justified to go after people. But he is going to meet a pretty logical wall when they go 'Ummmm.. Sorry dude, didn't know about that'.
Also... Authorizing others to fight/attack/do pretty much what they want against anyone against the GR (not just in this invasion, by his statements, btw, but at all) because of knowledge they did not, in any form, gain ICly, is at the very least breaking the setting and immersion of the game. At the worst, as I said originally, and still say now it flirts with metagaming. Note that now... Note it VERY well. It's situational. You could come out with possible reasons via OOC it wouldn't be. But they're all very weak in my eyes. So I said it 'flirts' with meta when Corey gives a blanket 'weapons free' order for the entire faction with no IC basis. If Coren wants to go after the Mandos himself? Very justified. He knows Muad is a Sith. If Coren wants to announce this all publicly, In Character, and then push for the actual IC leaders of the Alliance to affirm such a blanket decision? Again, that is very justifiable, given what he knows.
As it stands, his 'weapons free' order, which is utterly without any sort of limits, caveats, or any sort of IC basis beyond his personal knowledge, goes way beyond what it should. Period. There is no defense of it, no justification of it, besides limited and not widespread IC knowledge that is exclusively known by one member of the Galactic Alliance. We had an entire trial for Chevu 'sleeping with a Sith' and ICly it is being roleplayed that GA members still don't understand what she did with Gabe/Rev/Whoever. So how this information Coren knows, but hasn't told the entire faction about, is supposed to justify his 'weapons free' edict is... Well frankly it is beyond me.
Chevu Visz said:
I believe if you read the information above, fully and carefully, i've outlined my issue as clearly as possible. As it stands right know, I knew everything you said already. And you are right, for Coren to go after the Mandos maks perfect sense. For him. Personally. But not as a faction wide mandate. And I addressed the latter issue, not the former as you seem to think. Personally, Corey is free to have Coren fight in a frilly pink tutu and have tea with the Dark Lord of the Sith every other Tuesday, if he wants. Not my business, or my care, or my worry.
I never once dictated or addressed him playing out his own personal vendetta. My issue has always and only been him issuing a faction wide edict and set of instructions with absolutely nothing to base it on ICly. I hope this clarifies that. If not, please let me know where I am still not making my points clear, and I can further endeavor to clarify them.
Judah Dashiell
Salvage Empire
ICly Judah is against the Galactic Republic. Yes, he served in their ranks as a younger man but doesn't agree with the direction the faction was taken. He doesn't agree with their allowing the Jedi to "rule the roost" so to speak, especially with the alarming rate these "light siders" turn dark.
Following Coren's rules, it looks like I may be out of the GA.
Following Coren's rules, it looks like I may be out of the GA.
Gabriel Sionoma
Sheriff of Sulon
@Avacado Eden is doing some humanitarian work for both sides. I dunno if that fits your bill, but that might be a good way to go. Sit on the fence, throw out band aid sort of things.
[member="Judah Dashiell"]
[member="Judah Dashiell"]
Kairon Rees
Smuggler
[member="Judah Dashiell"]
Let's not all be hasty now
No one needs to be out of the faction!
Let's not all be hasty now
No one needs to be out of the faction!
Keepin Corellia Weird
[member="Gabriel Sionoma"] - I can't heal worth a damn. But I can carry things. And I do an OK on keeping people safe (None of you know about that time my padawan/son got mauled by Vornskrs because I was drunk and crashing into houses on a speeder bike, right?) I can help, and would be interested in doing so, with the whole humanitarian part, if it is needed. Keep the healers safe?
Judah Dashiell
Salvage Empire
[member="Julius Sedaire"]
I know poor [member="Darius"] was mauled due to your inattention.
*Calls Galactic CPS*
I know poor [member="Darius"] was mauled due to your inattention.
*Calls Galactic CPS*
Keepin Corellia Weird
[member="Judah Dashiell"] - It wasn't THAT bad of a mauling... I mean... He got better....
Harmon Tardai
Member
This is just from the point of view of a fairly new guy, but....
The way I see things, there are a few things that confuse me.
1) The main enemy of the Galactic Republic is the One Sith. In fact, the One Sith are essentially the biggest baddie on this board, as well as the biggest, most active faction. This is my big thing, because the GR has historically and currently housed the main portion of the Jedi Order, and the Jedi Order is sworn to protect the Republic.
2) Taking the first statement, it can be assumed that anyone attacking the GR is thereby working for the One Sith, whether they mean to or not.
3) Ignoring the first two, isn't the GR an official ally of the GA?
4) Ignoring all of this IC knowledge, could Corey's words in the OOC thread have been meant as a trollish joke?
5) It is supremely easy to switch accounts on this board, the drop down menus are practically everywhere. If he had meant the statements quoted as fiat being from the Faction Owner, wouldn't he have done it from his OOC account rather than from the character account of Coren (who has ICly distanced himself from the GA IC leadership)?
6) It has been posted practically everywhere that this is a faction of the players. Thereby meaning that if we as a faction don't like something, we can change it. If we as a faction wanted to aid the One Sith, that is our decision (despite being against the GA mandate, yes I know).
7) Isn't this a game?
8) I'm kinda tired of numbering things, but I may be addicted....
9) Damn it...I can stop any time...
The way I see things, there are a few things that confuse me.
1) The main enemy of the Galactic Republic is the One Sith. In fact, the One Sith are essentially the biggest baddie on this board, as well as the biggest, most active faction. This is my big thing, because the GR has historically and currently housed the main portion of the Jedi Order, and the Jedi Order is sworn to protect the Republic.
2) Taking the first statement, it can be assumed that anyone attacking the GR is thereby working for the One Sith, whether they mean to or not.
3) Ignoring the first two, isn't the GR an official ally of the GA?
4) Ignoring all of this IC knowledge, could Corey's words in the OOC thread have been meant as a trollish joke?
5) It is supremely easy to switch accounts on this board, the drop down menus are practically everywhere. If he had meant the statements quoted as fiat being from the Faction Owner, wouldn't he have done it from his OOC account rather than from the character account of Coren (who has ICly distanced himself from the GA IC leadership)?
6) It has been posted practically everywhere that this is a faction of the players. Thereby meaning that if we as a faction don't like something, we can change it. If we as a faction wanted to aid the One Sith, that is our decision (despite being against the GA mandate, yes I know).
7) Isn't this a game?
8) I'm kinda tired of numbering things, but I may be addicted....
9) Damn it...I can stop any time...
Chevu Visz
Question everything
Unless you're actively taking up arms against lightsiders in the GR, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Personal feelings are totally a different animal. We have people in the GA who don't believe using the dark side is wrong. They don't get persecuted unless they actually are caught IC using the dark side.Judah Dashiell said:
Not to be glib, but what did you guys expect from this invasion? A neutral faction is going to WAR with a light-sided one. Of course, it's going to cause IC divisiveness among people that consider themselves light side but also back the Mandos. How could it not?
In a war, you choose a side. You don't cherry pick who you fight on the battlefield.
You don't have to like that Coren chose the GR side. But if you don't, I'd personally rather see that played out IC than complained about OOC.
Keepin Corellia Weird
[member="Chevu Visz"] - If a character had done things ICly, I wouldn't be complaining. A Faction Owner posted in an OOC thread. That's not an IC statement, or action. Even I don't drink that much to think that...
Quietus
Hunting Again
I'd be glad for the help and protection but I will need to be clearing it with GR and Mando FOs as I believe all ally spots are taken.
