Separation of Jedi and the G.A.R.?

[Popo]

I'm looking at officially severing the Jedi and Republic military entirely. ie, the Jedi no long command Republic warships, troops, and vehicles. This also works the opposite way, as well. Republic officers and soldiers cannot, in turn, give orders or command Jedi.

This has a few reasons. First, it means that Republic troops, ships, and the like remain in the chain of command. Second, it means that the Republic military's chain of command remains unbroken and unconfused. This prevents confusion and poor judgement calls IC'ly and OOC'ly in threads where such things are present. The chain of command is direct, the orders have a clear path, and internal issues have little chance of cluttering them up.

This also returns the Jedi to the Original Jedi Order/New Jedi Order's outlook on their role within the Republic. They become the peacekeepers, advisors, and overall "good guys" they're supposed to be. They return to being the big ol' hammer up on the wall, instead of a bunch of individuals mixed in with the rank and file. It's a return to the concept of the Republic War Machine doing it's job in conflict, but when times get bad, the Jedi can come down off the mantle to combat the Forces of Darkness.

In short, as far as the military goes, it's a separation of the Secular and the Vernacular to prevent confusion and begin to place the Jedi back into their role as the ultimate peacekeeping and "White Knight" positions.

Thoughts? Questions? Comments?

 

[The End Narrator]

+1.

 

[Willa Isard]

The only real reason jedi have command is because

*looks at ratio of jedi to republic troopers/officers*

because no one else is usually around to do anything with the ships, soldiers or positions.

I am all for it but invasions has maybe 1-2 soldiers if we are lucky. The current one has you I believe for Republic and the rest are jedi.

 

[Vulpesen]

I would like to point out that this is what caused the silver jedi and various other jedi orders. If ya do this, ya might as well just send all jedi into the silver order and the like.

 

[Nikolas Faselli]

ya might as well just send all jedi into the silver order and the like.

:huh:

Anyways, I really believe during extreme wartime, like it is at the moment, Jedi should be considered valuable members of the Republic military, and during peacetime, they should be what they used to be. But at the moment, the One Sith is so close to the Republic core that every extra hand would be needed. Just like the Clone Wars...

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

Alternatively, said other Orders should have worked to improve the system instead of abandoning it and spreading ourselves thin

 

[The End Narrator]

I would like to point out that this is what caused the silver jedi and various other jedi orders. If ya do this, ya might as well just send all jedi into the silver order and the like.

I would like to point out, there is more to it than that.

 

[The End Narrator]

Alternatively, said other Orders should have worked to improve the system instead of abandoning it and spreading ourselves thin

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Quitters never win, winners never quit.

^_^

 

[Selena Halcyon]

Ultimately making a move like this does little more than neuter the effectiveness of the Republic. I see the appeal. But it does nothing good.

 

[The End Narrator]

[member="Selena Halcyon"]

I see points on both sides, but it's a split decision.

If it hasn't been noticed, the Jedi ranks are super thin right now and every time we turn around, someone is running to the dark side. With the amount of NFU there are, the Antarian Rangers should be reformed if they don't already exist. I say this only cause I don't see anyone running them, or playing one.

It needs to be redirected back to the ways of the New Jedi Order. We need a more centralized Jedi Order, otherwise we're going to end up like they did at the end of the Sith-Imperial War.

 

[Popo]

[member="Selena Halcyon"]
I could care less about the appeal. Right now, the Jedi are in the middle of the Republic military and by having to deal with that and RP a Jedi, they're spread too thin. I'm sure there are folks who would love to write NFUs in the Republic military, but with the Jedi in the middle of things, it's hard to do. Hell, I was tempted to just nix the Republic entirely and have the name changed to the Jedi Order because they're in the middle of the whole thing already. Why? Because folks did the dumbest thing I could imagine and merged the two before my time as FL.

If this is what it takes to put the Jedi back to their best, I'll do it in a heartbeat. I'd rather try and fail, then not do a karking thing and let more and more Jedi go Sith and watch the whole thing crumble.

 

[Selena Halcyon]

The best thing to do is let things function the way they do optimally. That is: letting people RP as they see fit. Jedi are not spread too thin. They are doing what they do. No one -has- to RP a Jedi heavily involved in the military. Jedi doing what Jedi do and leading troops does not put more of a burden on them. Jedi just RP. People just RP.

Micromanaging is the death of factions. Freedom is the lifeblood. When you set limits you sectionalize the faction. When you do that you split people up. You push them to niches. Literally the worst thing to do with a faction is to push people into small groups. You want them freely flowing between groups in order to gain further faction unity.

Being spread thin is not a real issue in RPing. Not having members is. The key to having members is to make the faction as appealing as possible. To do that you must push it to do things, but also allow the members the freedom to take it upon themselves to do what they want. If a member requests to go start a thread (as I know you will be getting many PMs about as faction head) the best answer is "yes, just don't be stupid. RPs have consequences and just because I let you do something is not justification to claim that I told you to."** Unless the idea is absolutely terrible, and I mean absolutely terrible and detrimental to the faction, then you should just say "go ahead." Go. Do. And -never- say "no, I think we're too busy." Look, if people want to do something, harness that. Encourage it. Don't tell them no. Who wants to be a part of a faction that tells them no? You will find your faction flourishing when people realize that they can RP very freely in it. Do that and Jedi will join.

Also important is solidifying an identity. Would you say that the Republic's and Jedi's identity is to do good in the galaxy? Protect the weak? Fight for justice? I imagine you would. If that is the case, then the easiest way to let them do that is to allow them both to work in tandem and integrated together as fully and easily as possible. One way to do that? Put no restrictions on their involvement with the Republic military, in fact, encourage them to get involved. Encourage them to command if they want to. What is there to lose? Nothing. Nothing at all. You allow them to go out and RP as freely as they choose to because they have the ability to do something if they want to. People are drawn to factions that actually do good and stick to it. Stand strong, push on doing good and people will rally if you give them the freedom to do just that.

I would posit that the reason why many people are going sith is because the factions seem appealing. The reason why they are appealing? Momentum. Freedom. They see a place where they are not restricted. Remove restrictions, encourage freedom, and many will join. Also understand that at some level, it is story. Some people just want to RP a fall, and when some people start doing it that are high profile the action gets mimicked. It is not cause to suddenly say "wow, let's restrict actions." That's not going to do anything but make a place less appealing. Instead, just treat it as a fad. And counter it by making the Republic and the Jedi the more interesting place to RP because they are free and you can do things in it.

**Example: Once upon a time there was an invasion of Manaan. Some dude was a mercenary, and he PM'd me, "Yo, can I blow up a portion of ahto city that the imperial are on." I said, "Sure. Just know that the Republic and Jedi would never endorse that. If you do, you're acting rogue. But have fun." Now, was it the best idea in the world? Certainly not! In fact, I hate it when people destroy battlefields. But ya know what. The dude wanted to do something and it was not going to be the end of the world if he did. So why restrict it? Not like you're endorsing it, just saying that he can do what he wants. The results that come from the action will be something that they are held accountable to, but that's their choice.

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

Ultimately making a move like this does little more than neuter the effectiveness of the Republic. I see the appeal. But it does nothing good.

I assume your lengthy OOC posts on this matter mean you're going to start roleplaying again, or are we just reliving the glory days?

 

[The End Narrator]

[member="Selena Halcyon"]

I'm sorry, I have to disagree. Being spread thin does cause issues.

If the entire Jedi Council is killed, and Kiskla is all that is left, then what?

Instantly promoting people because we need to fill shoes doesn't really bode well. I think that is a merit thing which has been discussed, quality and not quantity. If we lost all our Knights except one or two, most of the Masters except one or two, and we're left with Padawans...we're like the Jedi Order at the time of the Clone Wars. We're promoting people too young to fill shoes for Senior ranks and we just cycle ourselves into another Purge, more Sith fodder, more drop-outs.

Then when it's only a handful of Jedi left committed to the Republic, then what? Where is our credibility?

 

[Selena Halcyon]

This is RPing not the real world.

Also what you pose is fascinating STORY. What happens when suddenly the numbers are low and we are forced to promote those who likely need more time? What comes of the Jedi Order? Do they rise to the occasion or do they fail? That's great narrative. Great story. If we actually believe the claim that story is what is the most important thing and that RPing out what is there, then one owns that. They thrive off of that. Enjoy the fact that the situation creates an interesting story. It is not a problem if you think of it as story. There are no problems in story because it is fiction. And RPing is a reaction to the cards that are dealt. If the cards are that the Jedi are spread thin, then RP it. RP the stresses of being stretched then. RP the stress of commanding troops in in difficult times. Embrace it. Thrive off of it. Writing a story as the underdogs who are having a difficult time is a lovely experience, and one which actually interests people.

So what is the issue here? There is none. Just RP. Just have fun. Embrace the situation and enjoy it.

If the entire Jedi Council is killed, and Kiskla is all that is left, then what?

This scenario is also a little silly because in the rules this does not just happen out of no where. Writers have to choose to kill their characters. Much in the same way that writers choose to leave the faction for other factions. Writers are in the seat here. If writers are choosing to kill off their characters that is out of the Republic's hands. It is up to the writers. You can't force them not to do it. Best thing to do then is to embrace the story that then creates.

Also, a significant reason for people leaving factions or killing off characters is that they are not enjoying the faction. Typically that stems from the faction no longer being interesting. Why does that normally come about? Most often due to restrictive leadership. The easiest way to make a faction fun and engaging is to let back off the reigns. Give them to freedom to do what they want. If they want to RP a Jedi working in the military, then let them do it. Why not? What is lost by doing that? It is ultimately their time to spread. Let them spread it how they want.

I assume your lengthy OOC posts on this matter mean you're going to start roleplaying again, or are we just reliving the glory days?

I lack the time or interest to RP. However, I happen to know a thing or two on what makes factions thrive and be successful. And that is a free environment that embraces doing things. So if I see something that ultimately is detrimental when I happen to peruse the board then I am going to point it out. I happen to have a fondness for the Republic and would like to see it succeed.

 

[The End Narrator]

Ok.

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

I lack the time or interest to RP. However, I happen to know a thing or two on what makes factions thrive and be successful.

So basically you're armchair quarterbacking? Interesting.

Let me know when you want to help put effort into the faction through RPing and OOC leadership instead of just commenting from the peanut gallery, I would love to work with you.

 

[Serenna]

Selena was told to make war and invasions by Tef and fight the sith. We were united in those invasions and if you had an idea of something you wanted to try you were given the tools to do it. We had one jedi turn to the darkside on Korriban and it was done by Tef because he was going to move on and help the sith setup for their return.

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

Glad to know she still has some loyalists.

Now, if we could return to the topic at hand. I, for one, support Popo's suggestion/decision.

 

[The End Narrator]

[member="Jessie Volt"], [member="Syn"], @Abillionaltsyouhave,

Unbiased views, not loyalist views. Big difference, alot of people see it the same way [member="Ryan Korr"] does.