Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Slugsthrowers VS Lightsabers
- Thread starter The Red of Sinner
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Darius Olar
Member
In all seriousness, a slugthrower really has no chance against a lightsaber unless it comes in the form of a shortgun then a force-users/jedi/sith probably have little chance of successfully blocking it with a lightsaber but there's still the force aspect that comes with both. A bullet of any grade whether it's 20mm or not, cannot do anything to a lightsaber, it'd disintergrate upon contact or at least be cut in half by time it's cut in half, it has probably lost most of the momentum that it had upon being fired.
Plus you've got Jedi awareness which can be roleplayed in many different ways, whether's it sensing another person prepaing to take shot, that slight build up of energy or whatever. Very few bounty hunters were capable of taking on a Jedi and it was never down to their equipment, it was more down to them in fact, knowing how a Jedi would think or react, which is the key.
Plus you've got Jedi awareness which can be roleplayed in many different ways, whether's it sensing another person prepaing to take shot, that slight build up of energy or whatever. Very few bounty hunters were capable of taking on a Jedi and it was never down to their equipment, it was more down to them in fact, knowing how a Jedi would think or react, which is the key.
Nyxie
【夢狐】
That's not really accurate, since... well, just defer to my "same reason why lightsabers take time to cut through steel doors" statement. Also, suffice it to say the partial (but not complete) liquefaction of the metal will only make it worse for the wielder.Darius Olar said:
On the contrary, a perfectly flush and center strike between bullet and saber would be ideally the worst circumstance possible; at least grazing the bullet from its side stands a better chance of diverting it off course and causing it the most damage.
Cutting bullets in half is and always was a fantasy notion. It's too fast and it's too small - even for a lightsaber, which isn't even a blade but a rod.
This is just a fact of physics.
Darius Olar
Member
Yet Star Wars is pure fantasy, it does not have much in the way of realism or anything relatable to earth physics?
Steels door that are often reinforced and of course, desner than an actual bullet. And it's not the lightsaber that takes time, it's the user, of course, they're pushing the blade through and down a dense material where as I doubt a bullet has the same density of a large, reinforced door. So my point still stands for me at least, a single bullet regardless of size, can easily be dealt with. A 20mm bullet is not that big, it's not dense, it's by no means, an actual door that is designed to withstand strikes of all sorts. (An average durasteel door would probably not take half as long to cut through then again, we only witness Jedi cutting through doors designed to keep others out.)
Plus, slugthrowers are considered primitive by star wars lore, I haven't seen or read about an assault rifle variant before, only pistols and one shot rifles but that's just me. There's a reason they aren't used on a regular basis.
So unless large steel doors are going to be shot out at me, then well, I'm in trouble
Steels door that are often reinforced and of course, desner than an actual bullet. And it's not the lightsaber that takes time, it's the user, of course, they're pushing the blade through and down a dense material where as I doubt a bullet has the same density of a large, reinforced door. So my point still stands for me at least, a single bullet regardless of size, can easily be dealt with. A 20mm bullet is not that big, it's not dense, it's by no means, an actual door that is designed to withstand strikes of all sorts. (An average durasteel door would probably not take half as long to cut through then again, we only witness Jedi cutting through doors designed to keep others out.)
Plus, slugthrowers are considered primitive by star wars lore, I haven't seen or read about an assault rifle variant before, only pistols and one shot rifles but that's just me. There's a reason they aren't used on a regular basis.
So unless large steel doors are going to be shot out at me, then well, I'm in trouble
Asemir
Null Prime
Inertia. Momentum.
F = ma
KE = 0.5mv
(Don't quote me on that last one. It's too early for me to remember my kinetic energy equations.)
F = ma
KE = 0.5mv
(Don't quote me on that last one. It's too early for me to remember my kinetic energy equations.)
Nyxie
【夢狐】
That's just not true though. It's absolutely the lightsaber that takes time. It simply does not magically deteriorate all matter in its path. It's a stick of plasma, not a black hole. Believe it or not, it has to heat the matter and with denser metals that have very high melting points, that takes time no matter how hard one pushes. The fraction of a second that the bullet is in "contact" with the "blade" (I say this loosely because contact with the plasma is never actually made and it's not actually a blade) is not enough to just vaporize the bullet as though it's not there. There's also going to be one object meeting another object, both behaving like solids, with considerable force and that force is going to act upon both objects with equal reaction.
Star Wars actually does have a decent amount of relative physics and theoretical explanations in real-life standards. Even if it didn't, it wouldn't matter because lightsabers are not magic sticks and do follow some form of logic.
Star Wars actually does have a decent amount of relative physics and theoretical explanations in real-life standards. Even if it didn't, it wouldn't matter because lightsabers are not magic sticks and do follow some form of logic.
Asemir
Null Prime
HEY WAIT INERTIA DAMPENERS!
Maybe all lightsabers have inertia dampeners built in?
[member="Nyxie"]
Maybe all lightsabers have inertia dampeners built in?
[member="Nyxie"]
Cira
Best Onion
Just throw [member="Sarge Potteiger"] at them.
See someone deflect THAT hunk of space marine.
See someone deflect THAT hunk of space marine.
The Admiralty
KE = 0.5mv^2 actually.Asemir Lor'kora said:
*captain nobodyaskedyouanything flies away*
Asemir
Null Prime
Thank you for the correction.Jared Ovmar said:
Ignatius
A N A R C H Y
[member="Darius Olar"], If you see the bullet as no problem, then please tell me how you will defend against an object less than the size of your pinky finger flying faster than the speed of sound? That would be your average 9mm handgun round.
Let us talk about sniper rifle rounds where they can fire up to and surpassing twice the speed of sound. (675 m/s to be exact, Speed of sound is just over 300 m/s) You are talking about a bullet that you cannot ever see, and can't defend against without large amounts of practice BECAUSE like you said, hardly anyone uses them because they are obsolete by blasters. And this 'Sniper rifle round" is just a 7.62 mm Civilan rifle round. Not the high caliber .50, or the .338. which are military rounds that travel about three times the speed of sound.
Let us talk about sniper rifle rounds where they can fire up to and surpassing twice the speed of sound. (675 m/s to be exact, Speed of sound is just over 300 m/s) You are talking about a bullet that you cannot ever see, and can't defend against without large amounts of practice BECAUSE like you said, hardly anyone uses them because they are obsolete by blasters. And this 'Sniper rifle round" is just a 7.62 mm Civilan rifle round. Not the high caliber .50, or the .338. which are military rounds that travel about three times the speed of sound.
Darius Olar
Member
As I am an ordinary person, it would be an issue but you forget that the majority of lightsaber users are indeed force users. They can predict danger coming their way regardless of what form it comes in, so yeah, I think they'd be able to predict a bullet, its trajectory and how close it is to hitting them to give them enough time to deal with it. Then really, blaster bolts would be just as hard to deal with for a force user as they travel beyond the speed of sound.
Ultimately, you're putting this down to an ordinary person, a Jedi/Sith is not an ordinary person and can accomplish many feats, whether is it a blaster or a slug.
And lightsabers can pretty much cut through most standard metals, you can try apply your own physics to a lightsaber but I'm sure and know it can deal with a bullet, a single bullet yes, I'm pretty sure it can disentergrate it pretty quickly, given how quickly people can cut through doors that appear to be denser, the lightsaber has the ability to adjust to different densities.
Oh well, if not a lightsaber to stop, then telekinesis would do the trick.
Ultimately, you're putting this down to an ordinary person, a Jedi/Sith is not an ordinary person and can accomplish many feats, whether is it a blaster or a slug.
And lightsabers can pretty much cut through most standard metals, you can try apply your own physics to a lightsaber but I'm sure and know it can deal with a bullet, a single bullet yes, I'm pretty sure it can disentergrate it pretty quickly, given how quickly people can cut through doors that appear to be denser, the lightsaber has the ability to adjust to different densities.
Oh well, if not a lightsaber to stop, then telekinesis would do the trick.
Asemir
Null Prime
Vaporizing or cutting through something still doesn't address INERTIA.
But inertia dampeners do. I maintain all lightsabers have miniature inertia dampeners.
It's the easiest way to explain everything!
But inertia dampeners do. I maintain all lightsabers have miniature inertia dampeners.
It's the easiest way to explain everything!
Ignatius
A N A R C H Y
I believe in the Wiki it says that the reasons that some use a physical bullet is because it travels faster than a blaster bolt. Blaster bolts are slower.
Bullets make a loud bang sound, NOT because of the explosion inside the gun, but because of the actual bullet breaking the sound barrier. Blasters are slower than the sound barrier as evident because they do not make a "bang" sound when fired. So as for a Blaster bolt being faster? You would be incorrect.
Blaster bolts are also bright in color. Meaning they are easier seen. And Master Saber users of the Jedi can hardly defend against Blaster bolts. NOT because they can see it ahead of time, but because of the time it takes to REACT to the situation. During Order 66, why do you think so many Jedi died? that was because they used a sheer number of blaster bolts against the Jedi, at close range to limit the amount of time they get to react to the bolt flying at them.
So no. Unless you have specific training against deflecting blaster bolts, and even more to defend against slugthrowers, then sure, you can block them all you want. But if you are not a blade master, with a higher form of Precognition, superhuman reflexes (even with the force) and can have very good hand-eye coordination. You will NOT be blocking slugthrowers anytime soon.
Bullets make a loud bang sound, NOT because of the explosion inside the gun, but because of the actual bullet breaking the sound barrier. Blasters are slower than the sound barrier as evident because they do not make a "bang" sound when fired. So as for a Blaster bolt being faster? You would be incorrect.
Blaster bolts are also bright in color. Meaning they are easier seen. And Master Saber users of the Jedi can hardly defend against Blaster bolts. NOT because they can see it ahead of time, but because of the time it takes to REACT to the situation. During Order 66, why do you think so many Jedi died? that was because they used a sheer number of blaster bolts against the Jedi, at close range to limit the amount of time they get to react to the bolt flying at them.
So no. Unless you have specific training against deflecting blaster bolts, and even more to defend against slugthrowers, then sure, you can block them all you want. But if you are not a blade master, with a higher form of Precognition, superhuman reflexes (even with the force) and can have very good hand-eye coordination. You will NOT be blocking slugthrowers anytime soon.
Darius Olar
Member
Err.. the main reason why a lot of Jedi died during Order 66 was because they were caught off guard? A. They were either blown apart. B. Shot in the back. C. Outnumbered. One Jedi only saw Order 66 coming and that was Yoda, because he could feel the rest of his people dying out, but the rest? They didn't have a single clue about it, some did survive purely out of skill and the ability to survive but most died because they were unaware and trusting of their men, they were indeed loyal to the Republic and by that, their loyalties extended to the Jedi. Also, many Jedi during this time did not study forms that were efficient against more than a few blaster users, no one saw a war coming and most of these men were indeed, military trained or droids designed to kill Jedi.
I did not mention once that a Jedi could defend against a barrage of blaster bolts, by no means, can a Jedi do so, only a few can if given the correct training in either Soresu or Shien. And regardless of 'seeing' the colour, a blaster bolt still travels incredibly faster than the naked eye can see. It comes down to the perception and awareness skills a Jedi possess through the usage of the Force itself. So perhaps they might not be able to deflect, reflect or stop all blaster bolts but they can stop a few of them and in theory, bullets too.
Most Jedi tend to have... deflection training regardless of what they use their lightsaber for, those with Soresu or Shien simply have an upperhand on the matter but many Jedi are still quite -skilled- in that area, given, most of their opponents use blasters.
I'm not saying my character infact can stop a barrage of blaster bolts, let alone bullets but bullets aren't the holy grail to defeating a lightsaber or the user behind the lightsaber. My character would probably fall prey to blaster bolts just as easily bullets but I'm simply using my own logic, the lore of star wars and so on.
But I am not going to agree with you [member="Erin Ecthelion"] on this matter what so ever, you can keep trying to prove me wrong and spin it to your own defense and logic but my conviction on this matter stands.
I did not mention once that a Jedi could defend against a barrage of blaster bolts, by no means, can a Jedi do so, only a few can if given the correct training in either Soresu or Shien. And regardless of 'seeing' the colour, a blaster bolt still travels incredibly faster than the naked eye can see. It comes down to the perception and awareness skills a Jedi possess through the usage of the Force itself. So perhaps they might not be able to deflect, reflect or stop all blaster bolts but they can stop a few of them and in theory, bullets too.
Most Jedi tend to have... deflection training regardless of what they use their lightsaber for, those with Soresu or Shien simply have an upperhand on the matter but many Jedi are still quite -skilled- in that area, given, most of their opponents use blasters.
I'm not saying my character infact can stop a barrage of blaster bolts, let alone bullets but bullets aren't the holy grail to defeating a lightsaber or the user behind the lightsaber. My character would probably fall prey to blaster bolts just as easily bullets but I'm simply using my own logic, the lore of star wars and so on.
But I am not going to agree with you [member="Erin Ecthelion"] on this matter what so ever, you can keep trying to prove me wrong and spin it to your own defense and logic but my conviction on this matter stands.
Asemir Lor'kora said:
<3 I love simple explanations.
Honestly, it's best to not get into the nitty gritty and try to apply real world science into star wars tech.
It only gives you a headache.
It is still SCI - Fantasy folks!
Beowoof
Morality Policeman :)
While the gun science seems clear to me that slugthrowers are messengers of doom to Forcies, I think the main point is that the majority of Forcie players are overpowered as it is and there need to be checks to make things more level.
Why can't non-Forcies just have one advantage? And it's not even an advantage, considering the fact that NFUs can't dodge a bullet any better than FUs. Seriously, give a little.
Why can't non-Forcies just have one advantage? And it's not even an advantage, considering the fact that NFUs can't dodge a bullet any better than FUs. Seriously, give a little.
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