The Arch Wilder
Is no one gonna talk about the fact that its the Skywalker Lightsaber in that picture?
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Star Wars Live Action TV Series Due 2016?
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Zayani Brin
Sabercat
YES! I really want this to happen. Think about it: Star Trek grew so extremely awesome and popular because of how the TV show went so in-depth with the universe as well as the story. I think that if they manage to pull this off, Star Wars will experience the same boost of awesomeness and popularity.
Watcher Three
Broken Replica
I'd say "gimmie Ewan MacGregor", but then my dreams would be crushed.
Gonna say, if they don't use already movie-introduced characters, this could be amazing.
Gonna say, if they don't use already movie-introduced characters, this could be amazing.
Bunker-level Normal
Honestly, if they go TV show with Star Wars, I don't want to see a Jedi as a main character. There's enough material that puts the Jedi in the limelight.
It's time to show another side of the Star Wars universe. Show me a bounty hunter, show me a mercenary, show me a politician, show me a shop owner, a freighter captain, a refugee, just someone who isn't a Jedi.
It's time to show another side of the Star Wars universe. Show me a bounty hunter, show me a mercenary, show me a politician, show me a shop owner, a freighter captain, a refugee, just someone who isn't a Jedi.
Watcher Three
Broken Replica
[member="Captain Jordan"]
If the Jedi is somebody like Kyle Katarn or Cade Skywalker, I'm okay with it. Mostly because Kyle was a badass and Cade's main character trait was being an nerf herder to people.
If the Jedi is somebody like Kyle Katarn or Cade Skywalker, I'm okay with it. Mostly because Kyle was a badass and Cade's main character trait was being an nerf herder to people.
Bunker-level Normal
I'm tired of badass Jedi, too. Besides, if you want a badass Jedi show, watch Rebels.Watcher Three said:
Watcher Three
Broken Replica
[member="Captain Jordan"]
*shrug* Can't say I enjoy Rebels much. It's Disney-grit as opposed to the grittier episodes of TCW that felt cinematic.
But, yeah, I see where you're coming from.
Though I want some better Sith main characters...
*shrug* Can't say I enjoy Rebels much. It's Disney-grit as opposed to the grittier episodes of TCW that felt cinematic.
But, yeah, I see where you're coming from.
Though I want some better Sith main characters...
Bunker-level Normal
[member="Watcher Three"]
Eh, I'm giving it an open mind. It's not like The Clone Wars was great in its first season, either.
Eh, I'm giving it an open mind. It's not like The Clone Wars was great in its first season, either.
Watcher Three
Broken Replica
[member="Captain Jordan"]
Yeah, nor was the movie, lol.
Point is, it'll hopefully get gritty, whether or not we've got Jedi in the main cast.
Yeah, nor was the movie, lol.
Point is, it'll hopefully get gritty, whether or not we've got Jedi in the main cast.
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
Ali Hadrix said:
Once again, you clearly did not watch the show becuase the period of pacifist mandalorians is incredibly short.
Ali Hadrix
Bad Boss
[member=Selena Halcyon]
I'm actually watching the show right now, and am on Season 4, so maybe a less condescending reply would have been: "The presentation of the Mandalorian people in the Clone Wars television show changes over the course of several seasons, with the Mandalorians in Season X being presented as a pacifist society with extremists living on the edge pushing for social and political change, and the culture in Season Y showing them to develop more of that warrior sense we're so familiar with from Karen Traviss' Clone Commando series."
Anyways, as I stated: "But whereas everything else written about Mandalorian culture in the EU was nixed, that CW crap survived."
What I cling to about the Mandalorians isn't their enjoyment of the fight, which is presented in many cultures in Star Wars and is easily done, but rather the in depth cultural design that Karen Traviss contributed to the universe. In fact, I would posit that the Mandalorians as designed under Karen Traviss were one of the most intimately detailed cultures of the universe, after only the Jedi themselves, and it was saddening for me to see so much of that canon-cultural development lost in the decision by Disney.
Thus, regardless of how the CW presents the Mandalorians in seasons that I "clearly have not watched," the fact remains that unless Traviss' cultural design was used to create them (which I have been told it was not), then my previous point still stands.
What I can hope for the franchise is that while events and other aspects of previous canon may change, cultural details, such as those of the Mandalorians by Traviss, will be reused in part to generate the new canon.
I'm actually watching the show right now, and am on Season 4, so maybe a less condescending reply would have been: "The presentation of the Mandalorian people in the Clone Wars television show changes over the course of several seasons, with the Mandalorians in Season X being presented as a pacifist society with extremists living on the edge pushing for social and political change, and the culture in Season Y showing them to develop more of that warrior sense we're so familiar with from Karen Traviss' Clone Commando series."
Anyways, as I stated: "But whereas everything else written about Mandalorian culture in the EU was nixed, that CW crap survived."
What I cling to about the Mandalorians isn't their enjoyment of the fight, which is presented in many cultures in Star Wars and is easily done, but rather the in depth cultural design that Karen Traviss contributed to the universe. In fact, I would posit that the Mandalorians as designed under Karen Traviss were one of the most intimately detailed cultures of the universe, after only the Jedi themselves, and it was saddening for me to see so much of that canon-cultural development lost in the decision by Disney.
Thus, regardless of how the CW presents the Mandalorians in seasons that I "clearly have not watched," the fact remains that unless Traviss' cultural design was used to create them (which I have been told it was not), then my previous point still stands.
What I can hope for the franchise is that while events and other aspects of previous canon may change, cultural details, such as those of the Mandalorians by Traviss, will be reused in part to generate the new canon.
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
Given that Traviss quit Star Wars like a whiney brat I'm surprised how fondly people think of her. Nevermind that her novels are a tad bit on the absurd side. The idea that the Clone Troopers were trained by Mandalorians other than Jango is a bit silly and that they have Mandalorian culture ingrained in them is also silly. Everything we get from the movies is that they were cloned, raised, educated, and trained by the Kaminoans. Nothing in Clone Trooper behavior (aside from being warriors but it was what they were bred to do so hardly proof) is indicative of Mandalorian influence. This is also true in literally every single other novel, comic and medium aside from the Karen Traviss books. If anyone is the outlier on everything it is Karen Traviss.
And the reason why I say clearly is because you are expressing facts about the Mandalorians that are just patently false. What we get is an added benefit of seeing a culture push back from a warrior one (highly logical development) and then the natural push back which ultimately regains power. The time of Mandalorians being pacifists is almost exclusively during the lifetime of Duchess Satine. You're whining because on the face the Mandalorians have been changed, but if anything they have been enhanced and given more depth. They are not a one dimensional warrior race that we get elsewhere. Now they're a diverse group who has gained diversity. Instead of working -with- the people at TCW (who honestly get Star Wars better than most), Karen Traviss threw a hissy fit and left people like you, her fans, without a resolution to her novel series. Yet you stand beside her. It is odd to me.
And they really are not all that detailed. They get a language. Oh well. Standard warrior culture dribble about honor and upbringing that is honestly prevalent in a number of other fantasy and sci-fi series. There is nothing that stands out about them as being special. I would also say that they have way less actual cultural development than the Yuuzhan Vong. The reason why I reference them is because the content that develops them is just as Legends as the content you cling to for the Mandalorians.
And the reason why I say clearly is because you are expressing facts about the Mandalorians that are just patently false. What we get is an added benefit of seeing a culture push back from a warrior one (highly logical development) and then the natural push back which ultimately regains power. The time of Mandalorians being pacifists is almost exclusively during the lifetime of Duchess Satine. You're whining because on the face the Mandalorians have been changed, but if anything they have been enhanced and given more depth. They are not a one dimensional warrior race that we get elsewhere. Now they're a diverse group who has gained diversity. Instead of working -with- the people at TCW (who honestly get Star Wars better than most), Karen Traviss threw a hissy fit and left people like you, her fans, without a resolution to her novel series. Yet you stand beside her. It is odd to me.
And they really are not all that detailed. They get a language. Oh well. Standard warrior culture dribble about honor and upbringing that is honestly prevalent in a number of other fantasy and sci-fi series. There is nothing that stands out about them as being special. I would also say that they have way less actual cultural development than the Yuuzhan Vong. The reason why I reference them is because the content that develops them is just as Legends as the content you cling to for the Mandalorians.
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
I'd also like to add that everywhere else we are always told just how NOT mandalorian Boba is. The reason why this is important is because it shows how uninterested Jango was in Mandalorian culture. Given his continued presence on Kamino, it is indicative of just another reason why Mandalorians would likely not be involved in the clones' training process.
Ali Hadrix
Bad Boss
[member=Selena Halcyon]
Wow. lol
"Given that Traviss quit Star Wars like a whiney brat..."
Considering being an author is her full-time career, I wouldn't call backing out of a potential contract due to disagreement between the involved parties quitting like a whiney brat. That's what she does for a living, she has to take it seriously. Just like I wouldn't take a job at a hospital if they were only offering me half of what a registered nurse should make, or expecting me to do work a registered nurse wouldn't do.
To address the Mandalorian influence on clone soldiers, you have to remember there were the standard clone troopers and then the Republic Commandos, which were the ones trained by out-sourced instructors (not all of which were Mandalorian, Traviss' work merely focuses on the ones that were, such as Skirata's boys). You're also forgetting that Traviss' detailing of Mandalorian culture extended far beyond just the clone soldiers, and was built on the decades of canon established by works other than the Clone Wars tv show.
So that whole paragraph of yours is silly gibberish.
You've also forgotten the distinction I made in my initial comment about how the CW canon was accepted over all the other canon. As it was stated by Disney, the only canon left that is accepted is that set by the films, and the Clone Wars tv show (and I'm assuming now the Rebels show also, which isn't much better). That means that all other canon, including comics, books and yes, Karen Traviss' work, were discarded.
So when you say "The time of Mandalorians being pacifists is almost exclusively during the lifetime of Duchess Satine..." you're inferring that there is any canon that shows them to be anything else, which there isn't anymore. Due to the canon reset, that Mandalorian culture is the only example we have left. All we're left with in canon is the idea that Mandalorians on the whole were pacifists and the warrior culture was restricted mainly to the marauding murderers and psychopaths that were the Death Watch.
You have to keep in mind, the Clone Wars slice of the pie isn't just a slice of the pie anymore. It's the whole pie. And that's what I have an issue with, as I stated already. If the CW Mandalorians were only a piece of the canon puzzle, I would actually love that, as it adds just another layer of depth to the history of their society. But now it's the only layer.
As for your other words, you're free to think whatever you want (I agree the Yuuzhan Vong are pretty well fleshed out). But it would be silly for you to try and argue that point considering what's been established about Mandalorian culture. It's not just "they have a language," it's having a functioning language, an evolving language, something I'm not sure any other culture in the SW universe has (I'm probably wrong, but we could likely count them on a hand). There's a culture of adoption that's directly linked to their warring, nomadic nature, a system of government that is more deeply ingrained in the culture than laid down in law. There are just more stories about the culture itself, which isn't something SW stories often focus on unless they're the cultures of the Jedi or Sith.
One of the Mandalorians' most attractive features is they've garnered enough attention in canon to show that few examples of Mandalorians are ubiquitous to their people. Boba Fett is one of those examples, as you yourself pointed out. He cares little for nationalism (it's not so much Mando "culture" he cares little about, more the patriotism behind it), and shows that Mandalorians are not cut from a single cloth.
Few other cultures in SW have that. What can you say of Rodians?, or Hutts?, or Gungans?, that couldn't be said of them all? Not much.
Of course there are good examples out there, the Kel Dor, for instance, and the Echani. The Jensaarai is another. Corellians. These are both more detailed examples. But you can hardly say Mandalorians are not one of the most effectually detailed cultures in the universe. The evidence is just not there and this simply feels like Level-2 Butthurtness. ^_^ But that's okay, say whatever, doesn't hurt me none.
Wow. lol
"Given that Traviss quit Star Wars like a whiney brat..."
Considering being an author is her full-time career, I wouldn't call backing out of a potential contract due to disagreement between the involved parties quitting like a whiney brat. That's what she does for a living, she has to take it seriously. Just like I wouldn't take a job at a hospital if they were only offering me half of what a registered nurse should make, or expecting me to do work a registered nurse wouldn't do.
To address the Mandalorian influence on clone soldiers, you have to remember there were the standard clone troopers and then the Republic Commandos, which were the ones trained by out-sourced instructors (not all of which were Mandalorian, Traviss' work merely focuses on the ones that were, such as Skirata's boys). You're also forgetting that Traviss' detailing of Mandalorian culture extended far beyond just the clone soldiers, and was built on the decades of canon established by works other than the Clone Wars tv show.
So that whole paragraph of yours is silly gibberish.
You've also forgotten the distinction I made in my initial comment about how the CW canon was accepted over all the other canon. As it was stated by Disney, the only canon left that is accepted is that set by the films, and the Clone Wars tv show (and I'm assuming now the Rebels show also, which isn't much better). That means that all other canon, including comics, books and yes, Karen Traviss' work, were discarded.
So when you say "The time of Mandalorians being pacifists is almost exclusively during the lifetime of Duchess Satine..." you're inferring that there is any canon that shows them to be anything else, which there isn't anymore. Due to the canon reset, that Mandalorian culture is the only example we have left. All we're left with in canon is the idea that Mandalorians on the whole were pacifists and the warrior culture was restricted mainly to the marauding murderers and psychopaths that were the Death Watch.
You have to keep in mind, the Clone Wars slice of the pie isn't just a slice of the pie anymore. It's the whole pie. And that's what I have an issue with, as I stated already. If the CW Mandalorians were only a piece of the canon puzzle, I would actually love that, as it adds just another layer of depth to the history of their society. But now it's the only layer.
As for your other words, you're free to think whatever you want (I agree the Yuuzhan Vong are pretty well fleshed out). But it would be silly for you to try and argue that point considering what's been established about Mandalorian culture. It's not just "they have a language," it's having a functioning language, an evolving language, something I'm not sure any other culture in the SW universe has (I'm probably wrong, but we could likely count them on a hand). There's a culture of adoption that's directly linked to their warring, nomadic nature, a system of government that is more deeply ingrained in the culture than laid down in law. There are just more stories about the culture itself, which isn't something SW stories often focus on unless they're the cultures of the Jedi or Sith.
One of the Mandalorians' most attractive features is they've garnered enough attention in canon to show that few examples of Mandalorians are ubiquitous to their people. Boba Fett is one of those examples, as you yourself pointed out. He cares little for nationalism (it's not so much Mando "culture" he cares little about, more the patriotism behind it), and shows that Mandalorians are not cut from a single cloth.
Few other cultures in SW have that. What can you say of Rodians?, or Hutts?, or Gungans?, that couldn't be said of them all? Not much.
Of course there are good examples out there, the Kel Dor, for instance, and the Echani. The Jensaarai is another. Corellians. These are both more detailed examples. But you can hardly say Mandalorians are not one of the most effectually detailed cultures in the universe. The evidence is just not there and this simply feels like Level-2 Butthurtness. ^_^ But that's okay, say whatever, doesn't hurt me none.
Montana
Sharp Like a Leaf
Are you telling me all that happened with Luke Skywalker's New Jedi Order is no longer canon? Cause if that's what that means I'm seriously gonna' cry. Just kidding, but seriously. I'm definitely about to cry.Ali Hadrix said:
Ali Hadrix
Bad Boss
[member=Montana]
From what I have read, as I understand it, yes, the only official canon that exists any longer are the films themselves, and the Clone Wars (and I'm pretty sure Rebels) tv shows. And I only really like four of those movies, and neither of those tv shows, so it's less than that, really. lol
They've labeled all the old canon "Legends" now, a semi-sorta-way to keep it legitimate.
The decision actually makes sense, considering there's no way they could update an audience on 30 years of Galactic events in the new movies. This removes that burden, and allows the new films to move ahead unhindered.
Also, they're drawing a lot of things from the old canon into the CW and Rebels shows, which essentially helps reestablish some of the canon we're used to. The Kaiburr Crystal, for instance, from one of the first Star Wars books ever sanctioned, "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" was featured in an episode of Star Wars Rebels. So tid-bits are going to survive, we're just not entirely sure which ones will for the films, yet.
From what I have read, as I understand it, yes, the only official canon that exists any longer are the films themselves, and the Clone Wars (and I'm pretty sure Rebels) tv shows. And I only really like four of those movies, and neither of those tv shows, so it's less than that, really. lol
They've labeled all the old canon "Legends" now, a semi-sorta-way to keep it legitimate.
The decision actually makes sense, considering there's no way they could update an audience on 30 years of Galactic events in the new movies. This removes that burden, and allows the new films to move ahead unhindered.
Also, they're drawing a lot of things from the old canon into the CW and Rebels shows, which essentially helps reestablish some of the canon we're used to. The Kaiburr Crystal, for instance, from one of the first Star Wars books ever sanctioned, "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" was featured in an episode of Star Wars Rebels. So tid-bits are going to survive, we're just not entirely sure which ones will for the films, yet.
Writer
Despite the fact that previous canon is now considered "Legends" in the eyes of the new Star Wars story board, they have proven time and again that they are willing to borrow (unfortunately without credit, I might add) from the work of authors/creators in the EU.
Coruscant first appeared in the original Star Wars comic (issue #63) and was named by Timothy Zahn in Heir to the Empire. And yet, it still became one of the main settings of the prequel trilogy. The prequels, the Clone Wars and even, to an extent, Rebels have all pulled various details from EU as they've seen fit.
Another notable change in direction akin to the pacifist Mandolorians were the abrupt change of character that the Clone Wars gave Barriss Offee, but Barriss is another character that originated in EU. Hell a good number of the Jedi that we see in Ep. 2 and 3 (and especially in the tv shows) are ones that were pulled from EU content.
It is always a possibility that we will see a more militaristic society from the Mandos again, and that they won't completely abandon the canon. They may change details, but it is always to serve the purpose of some story line (whether that story line is trash or not is a matter of opinion).
But none of this is on topic.
I'm still excited for the possibility of a live-action tv show. If we constantly worry about the direction taken by current overseers of the SW storyboard, we will never enjoy the outcome. Do they have a lot of stuff to live up to? Sure, but then so have the Marvel folks after their acquisition by Disney, and I'd say they're doing just fine.
Coruscant first appeared in the original Star Wars comic (issue #63) and was named by Timothy Zahn in Heir to the Empire. And yet, it still became one of the main settings of the prequel trilogy. The prequels, the Clone Wars and even, to an extent, Rebels have all pulled various details from EU as they've seen fit.
Another notable change in direction akin to the pacifist Mandolorians were the abrupt change of character that the Clone Wars gave Barriss Offee, but Barriss is another character that originated in EU. Hell a good number of the Jedi that we see in Ep. 2 and 3 (and especially in the tv shows) are ones that were pulled from EU content.
It is always a possibility that we will see a more militaristic society from the Mandos again, and that they won't completely abandon the canon. They may change details, but it is always to serve the purpose of some story line (whether that story line is trash or not is a matter of opinion).
But none of this is on topic.
I'm still excited for the possibility of a live-action tv show. If we constantly worry about the direction taken by current overseers of the SW storyboard, we will never enjoy the outcome. Do they have a lot of stuff to live up to? Sure, but then so have the Marvel folks after their acquisition by Disney, and I'd say they're doing just fine.
I'm gonna throw some support out to [member="Selena Halcyon"]. I agree, I actually liked how the Mandalorians were presented in Clone Wars. It's an interesting parallel to real life. The Mandalorians were actually somewhat based on Scandinavians, who are enduring much the same process of cultural decay and abandonment of tradition in real life. There are obvious visual parallels, with the New Mandalorians being a blonde-haired, blue-eyed people. Their homeplanet, "Kalevala", is also the name of the Finnish national epic saga (technically not Scandinavia proper, but close enough). And they were a once-proud warrior culture built around attaining honor and glory in battle (Vikings), but have since succumbed to the forces of modernity and become a more pacifist, egalitarian country (modern Scandinavia), well-intentioned but ultimately unsustainable in the long-term. I thought it was an interesting example of art imitating life, and I enjoyed the subtle social commentary on modernity thrown in there.
Karen Traviss' writings, on the other hand, have always struck me as rather shallow and ham-fisted, not really saying anything interesting except "ehrmagerd look how stronk and powerful muh Mandos are". Everything Traviss wrote just struck me as one big circlejerk about how great and awesome Mandalorians are, and how they're so totes better than everyone else. Yawn. The language she wrote for them wasn't even interesting or profound, not comparable to the works of actual linguists and literary geniuses like Tolkien. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm glad that everything Traviss wrote has been retconned. I won't be missing it in the slightest.
Karen Traviss' writings, on the other hand, have always struck me as rather shallow and ham-fisted, not really saying anything interesting except "ehrmagerd look how stronk and powerful muh Mandos are". Everything Traviss wrote just struck me as one big circlejerk about how great and awesome Mandalorians are, and how they're so totes better than everyone else. Yawn. The language she wrote for them wasn't even interesting or profound, not comparable to the works of actual linguists and literary geniuses like Tolkien. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm glad that everything Traviss wrote has been retconned. I won't be missing it in the slightest.
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
Not quite sure how I'm the one butt hurt in this scenario. I'm just pointing out how mediocre Traviss is and how the Clone Wars enhanced things. You're the one complaining about it all. But oh well. I guess juvenile attempts to discredit are big on the internet.
Immortus you bring up a good bit of exposition there.
Immortus you bring up a good bit of exposition there.
Montana
Sharp Like a Leaf
So I cried, guys. A lot. Call me weird but the New Jedi Order is/was my favorite thing in all of Star Wars ever.
If they made a show about it I'd die, in a good way.
If they made a show about it I'd die, in a good way.