Viru Lentus
Character
[member="Dune Rhur"]
YES! YOU UNDERSTAND!!! MY BROTHER IN ARMS!!!
YES! YOU UNDERSTAND!!! MY BROTHER IN ARMS!!!
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Star Wars: The Clone Wars Animated Series
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Voices of The Deep
◈ A Z U R E ◈
Dune Rhur said:
You are aware that it is...basically a kids show with a bit more spice for teens right? Everyone is aware of that yes? Not every show on CARTOON NETWORK is gonna have some big villain that commits genocide, eats worlds, and slaughters the good guys. But at the same time, they can't have overly complicated bad guys either...examples can be seen everywhere from Khan (Star Trek), Loki (Thor/The Avengers), and ect...kids attention spans just are not that dedicated to character details. They like action, simple and direct lines of plot, and simple motivations. I mean lets be real, what show on Cartoon Network aside from like...Toonami anime such as Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece have big plot lines that resemble that of a movie?
Who remembers shows like Ben 10, Generator Rex, Teen Titans? In shows like that, almost every character fell into a simple archtype or Persona because they are easy to relate to and understand. Plus, we are talking about a show that is based on a movie that...not all kids have seen. Hell i haven't seen it and i'm damn there 20 years old. The originals were out when my dad was a kid nearly a decade ago. And thats not to say the franchise has dwindled nooooooo. Not in the slightest.
There is but one simple truth here...it is a cartoon. On Cartoon Network...a Network designed for children. And while CN has been known to sneak in some deep symbolism and such, it's never that noticeable by its target audience. We i think everyone needs to drop the nit picking and see Clone Wars as a show that did what it could, and did it well.
Darth Maul and his legs? Whats the problem with that? Have you SEEN the stuff that happens in this universe? Hell, on this site. Is Anakin got his legs chopped off, his arm chopped off, and burned in lava but still managed to come back as Darth V. Who is to say Maul could not survive a slashing or two and a big fall into some enormous pit?
And grievous? Who is to say he is still not dangerous or scary? Because he is sick and always coughing? Old and losing his edge? Whats wrong with that? I recall two Jedi and storm troopers going into his 'Lair' and having a whole thing...and it was cool. All the braids and lightsabres taken from his victims. It was like walking into a Hunters cabin with heads mounted on walls. But more child friendly. Plus, he 'killed' the Knight guy, and a majority of the soldiers. For a kids show, he did his job as a bad guy.
Look at half the bad guys on this very site. Just a week or two ago me and Dune were talking about how cliche most of them are...how we are expecting them to put damsels on train tracks and curl their mustaches. Why would a children cartoon be any different?
Not to mention...you guys are trying 'too hard' to compare it to the original movies but fail to acknowledge...its not. No one is comparing the two. If anything i consider the show its on stand-alone side story just as comics and such. And you know what...it's cool. Why hate on it? Sure Boba Fett was the (Greatest Bounty Hunter in the Galaxy) but look what he was reduced to...
Falling into a desert butt hole. And plus he has minimal screen time according to everyone i know who is a SW fan. All he had going for him was his 'Mysterious Coolness'. And thats all fine and good.
Then in CW, Cad Bane comes along. Has actual screen time, is menacing as fak. And actually 'does' stuff. Taking the senate hostage, stealing Holocrons, Fighting Obi-wan and some other guy. And 'living' to tell the tale.
As for Ashoka...eh, i see your points with her. But come on, if it was JUST Ani & Obi-wan along with rex and the boys, it'd be a sausage fest. Just a pumped up action with tons of testosterone. She balanced it out, gave kids something to relate to. Plus her corruption of the dark side was pretty neat.
As for Ventress...eh, she could of been done a bit better. Not much to say about her. Lol. But she is an assassin...not much to go off of there.
At the end of the day guys. Cut the show some slack. It's not as bad as you are making it out to be. Just look at the Force Unleashed universe...Starkiller going around killing everyone and pulling star cruisers out of the air. Is that any better?
Not everything can be perfect.
[member="Dune Rhur"]
[member="Viru Lentus"]
Dune Rhur
Freedon's Nadds
[member="Queen Sovereign"]
Kids show or not, it could've been better. A lot better. Even Rebels is better though it makes me sigh with sadness. Ezra just makes me not want to live on the planet anymore. Anyway...do it. Do it. Do it. (You know what)
Kids show or not, it could've been better. A lot better. Even Rebels is better though it makes me sigh with sadness. Ezra just makes me not want to live on the planet anymore. Anyway...do it. Do it. Do it. (You know what)
Viru Lentus
Character
[member="Queen Sovereign"]
As Dune said. The show could've been much, much better. They could've literally used the old Clone Wars comics that existed and turned a show out of them. Then guess what everyone would love it. The characters were much more real in the comics. Had more personality to them, and they brought in a more overarching story. Instead of aiming to be simple they could aim for the lore fans and the newcomers would've liked it just as much.
Its not just that he survived its the crappy plotlines they used. As a child I hated simple shows such as that. As a matter of fact most of the children I was raised with hated those simple shows. I always believe in plot and story over flashy graphics and action.
And while Boba didn't get much time in the movies you best believe the books gave him loads of story. Not to mention him stalemating Mace Windu, Fighting Grievous, Defeating numerous bounty hunters, hunting Obi-wan and Ferus Olin. I could list so many things Fett did before he fell in the pit and after he climbed out of it. That's right he survived.
There are so many more things I could throw at those statements and tear them down to the nitty gritty and point out every single flaw in that horrible cartoon, but I won't because I would be here all day, and to each his own.
And FYI Starkiller did not pull it out of the sky, he redirected a falling Star Destroyer and there have been characters that make that feat look like childs play.
Simply saying before you try and defend the cartoon learn the material of Star Wars overall, the Legends continuity and such. Then go read and watch the newer stuff and see the taste it leaves in your mouth. As I've been reading SW Legends material since I was a seven year old. Not to mention numerous other series of books I've read.
As Dune said. The show could've been much, much better. They could've literally used the old Clone Wars comics that existed and turned a show out of them. Then guess what everyone would love it. The characters were much more real in the comics. Had more personality to them, and they brought in a more overarching story. Instead of aiming to be simple they could aim for the lore fans and the newcomers would've liked it just as much.
Its not just that he survived its the crappy plotlines they used. As a child I hated simple shows such as that. As a matter of fact most of the children I was raised with hated those simple shows. I always believe in plot and story over flashy graphics and action.
And while Boba didn't get much time in the movies you best believe the books gave him loads of story. Not to mention him stalemating Mace Windu, Fighting Grievous, Defeating numerous bounty hunters, hunting Obi-wan and Ferus Olin. I could list so many things Fett did before he fell in the pit and after he climbed out of it. That's right he survived.
There are so many more things I could throw at those statements and tear them down to the nitty gritty and point out every single flaw in that horrible cartoon, but I won't because I would be here all day, and to each his own.
And FYI Starkiller did not pull it out of the sky, he redirected a falling Star Destroyer and there have been characters that make that feat look like childs play.
Simply saying before you try and defend the cartoon learn the material of Star Wars overall, the Legends continuity and such. Then go read and watch the newer stuff and see the taste it leaves in your mouth. As I've been reading SW Legends material since I was a seven year old. Not to mention numerous other series of books I've read.
Dune Rhur
Freedon's Nadds
I believe Viru is right about mostly comparing EU stuff to current. Again, keeping in mind it being for kids, it just could've been better.Cad Bane was cool and I enjoyed getting to see Kit Fisto and Plo Koon in action. Dooku was a pretty decent nemesis too. It's not ALL bad, just what's bad is really bad.
Caius Flavian
Faction Admin - The Galactic Republic
I loved the episodes where the focus was mainly on the clones.
There were a number of great gem episodes that were standalone that I feel did well for depicting the atmosphere of the Clone Wars
[Media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzqViiXQdkI[/Media]
Just this short scene alone evoked so much for me!
Jedi/Sith had that Samurai flavor, leading troops in heraldry (Clones in this case now wearing their Legion Trimming)
A Jedi falling in battle protecting the lives of others.
Fighting for the Republic against an enemy of overwhelming numbers.
A lot details annoyed the crap out of me
First a lot of how military and combat were depicted almost always fell flat.
Take the movie for example
[Media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwHVsWSJmv4[/Media]
This scene just makes me lose my poodoo... It looks cool but dear gods its suicidal, there is an overwhelming amount of fire power in terms of aircraft and and Gunships that could have easily swooped in and performed an Aerial Assault that could have easily cut off any retreat.
Waste of lives and troops.
A light orbital strike, a peppering of turbolaser fire would have smothered those droids... Ugh...
But it is Science Fiction and in many ways Fantasy.
Again though I always kept in mind that this was Star Wars geared for a young audience then someone of my age looking for the gritty violence and soul wrenching character development that narratives in this show did but on a lighter scale.
I won't forgive them for turning this Grievous that I grew up on
[Media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4[/Media]
Into this...
[Media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW8ku_RW6xs[/Media]
While they still did pretty well with him in lightsaber combat.
Our introduction to Grievous was one who was military strategist and warrior who far out classed the Jedi.
While this would still be there as an element In the Clone Wars series I felt he became diluted in may ways from what we were first given.
I still enjoyed the Series as a whole and personally I really didn't mind Ashoka at all as it did a great job with her and a lot of the young padawans for connecting to that demographic.
I really didn't like what they did to Mandalore, it threw out so much great stuff from the EU and literally spat in to the face of what Karen Traviss had made the Mandalorians culture feel like.
Honestly at least it was not as overkill as frakking Force Unleashed that was absurdity...
There were a number of great gem episodes that were standalone that I feel did well for depicting the atmosphere of the Clone Wars
[Media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzqViiXQdkI[/Media]
Just this short scene alone evoked so much for me!
Jedi/Sith had that Samurai flavor, leading troops in heraldry (Clones in this case now wearing their Legion Trimming)
A Jedi falling in battle protecting the lives of others.
Fighting for the Republic against an enemy of overwhelming numbers.
A lot details annoyed the crap out of me
First a lot of how military and combat were depicted almost always fell flat.
Take the movie for example
[Media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwHVsWSJmv4[/Media]
This scene just makes me lose my poodoo... It looks cool but dear gods its suicidal, there is an overwhelming amount of fire power in terms of aircraft and and Gunships that could have easily swooped in and performed an Aerial Assault that could have easily cut off any retreat.
Waste of lives and troops.
A light orbital strike, a peppering of turbolaser fire would have smothered those droids... Ugh...
But it is Science Fiction and in many ways Fantasy.
Again though I always kept in mind that this was Star Wars geared for a young audience then someone of my age looking for the gritty violence and soul wrenching character development that narratives in this show did but on a lighter scale.
I won't forgive them for turning this Grievous that I grew up on
[Media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4[/Media]
Into this...
[Media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW8ku_RW6xs[/Media]
While they still did pretty well with him in lightsaber combat.
Our introduction to Grievous was one who was military strategist and warrior who far out classed the Jedi.
While this would still be there as an element In the Clone Wars series I felt he became diluted in may ways from what we were first given.
I still enjoyed the Series as a whole and personally I really didn't mind Ashoka at all as it did a great job with her and a lot of the young padawans for connecting to that demographic.
I really didn't like what they did to Mandalore, it threw out so much great stuff from the EU and literally spat in to the face of what Karen Traviss had made the Mandalorians culture feel like.
Honestly at least it was not as overkill as frakking Force Unleashed that was absurdity...
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
The show is absolutely fantastic. It portrays the spirit of Star Wars so well it is amazing. There are silly moments where it ignores EU (for instance, why change Ryloth from having a rotation that lasts an entire year, to having normal days?). R3 Units that can be in fighters. Small things are the weird areas to overlook. However, I much prefer the boldness with which they approach changing things like the Mandalorians. I -love- the changes to the Mandalorians because they add immense levels of depth to the culture. People who say it steps on Karen Traviss' work are ignorant because it really does not. The warrior heritage which is held to by some sections still exist, but it adds this reality that a lot of the Mandalorians shifted away from that because they realized it is destructive. It culminates in an amazing civil war based upon heritage vs. the new ways of living. It is an awesome arc. I detest Karen Traviss' work as juvenile and fanboyish, but it is not disregarded. The only people that believe that are her and her fanboys. She's a brat anyways.
The Dathomir witches are actually WAY in line with what we see in the Republic comics. They're not all that similar to the ones from Legends novels but the differences predate TCW.
I for one like the Grievous changed, but I'm also not a fan of the old series. They are fun and the art style is good, but the power levels are absolutely out of line with what we see in the movies. Grievous getting beaten by Tarpels and Gungans because Tarpels was willing to sacrifice himself is great. Nevermind that Gungans have technology that is very good against droids such as him. His portrayel in TCW is also way more in line with the power that we see in the movies. Yes it is "cool" to see Grievous destroy a bunch of Jedi, but is it actually "better?" I would say no. And my biggest reason for that is because it is not true to the core material: The Movies.
Ahsoka actually develops rather well through out the series. She goes from being almost insufferable to being actually really likable as a hero. Her stories becomes very interesting. I think it is a huge shame that TCW was cancelled and we don't get to see the conclusion of the Onderon arc. IT was great to see her understand that the war was more complicated on a lower level. She certainly believed in the Republic in general, but saw the suffering of others. Her final arc in TCW was also great. Her leaving the Order was really well done, and they handled the issues of Anakin having a padawan rather well. In the unreleased episodes they get into Anakin's feeling of failure concerning Ahsoka. They actually reach a very good reason for why Anakin doesn't talk about her in Ep. III. Is it a little forced? To an extent, but it makes sense.
Also, I will say that people who stand by the "greatness" of Legends are largely fooling themselves. The plot of the vast majority of the stories is simplistic. Very few characters are actually remarkable. The only significant difference is that they are geared towards a different age group. However, very few are actually substantially better than TCW. Thrawn stuff is supposedly very good (not a fan myself but meh) and X-wing is fantastic, but most of the rest is just not memorable. What I find laughable is the number of people who love the Sith books (hilariously bad) yet harp on Maul's return. They have zero problem with darkside conjured tentacles appearing ex nihilo that destroy things on touch but don't like Maul surviving being cut in half. Like, don't get me wrong. Maul surviving is dumb. But darkside tentacles is waaaaaay dumber and waaaaay more far fetched when compared to SW technology and what we see.
The Dathomir witches are actually WAY in line with what we see in the Republic comics. They're not all that similar to the ones from Legends novels but the differences predate TCW.
I for one like the Grievous changed, but I'm also not a fan of the old series. They are fun and the art style is good, but the power levels are absolutely out of line with what we see in the movies. Grievous getting beaten by Tarpels and Gungans because Tarpels was willing to sacrifice himself is great. Nevermind that Gungans have technology that is very good against droids such as him. His portrayel in TCW is also way more in line with the power that we see in the movies. Yes it is "cool" to see Grievous destroy a bunch of Jedi, but is it actually "better?" I would say no. And my biggest reason for that is because it is not true to the core material: The Movies.
Ahsoka actually develops rather well through out the series. She goes from being almost insufferable to being actually really likable as a hero. Her stories becomes very interesting. I think it is a huge shame that TCW was cancelled and we don't get to see the conclusion of the Onderon arc. IT was great to see her understand that the war was more complicated on a lower level. She certainly believed in the Republic in general, but saw the suffering of others. Her final arc in TCW was also great. Her leaving the Order was really well done, and they handled the issues of Anakin having a padawan rather well. In the unreleased episodes they get into Anakin's feeling of failure concerning Ahsoka. They actually reach a very good reason for why Anakin doesn't talk about her in Ep. III. Is it a little forced? To an extent, but it makes sense.
Also, I will say that people who stand by the "greatness" of Legends are largely fooling themselves. The plot of the vast majority of the stories is simplistic. Very few characters are actually remarkable. The only significant difference is that they are geared towards a different age group. However, very few are actually substantially better than TCW. Thrawn stuff is supposedly very good (not a fan myself but meh) and X-wing is fantastic, but most of the rest is just not memorable. What I find laughable is the number of people who love the Sith books (hilariously bad) yet harp on Maul's return. They have zero problem with darkside conjured tentacles appearing ex nihilo that destroy things on touch but don't like Maul surviving being cut in half. Like, don't get me wrong. Maul surviving is dumb. But darkside tentacles is waaaaaay dumber and waaaaay more far fetched when compared to SW technology and what we see.
Shadow Hand
I really need to catch up with the show, I havent watched in a while. It's a great show but I always wonder...
Why hasn't anyone ever made a non-animated Star Wars series? The universe especially legends is so expansive you could run an awesome TV Series. Shows like this just display how successful a star wars tv show can be.
Why hasn't anyone ever made a non-animated Star Wars series? The universe especially legends is so expansive you could run an awesome TV Series. Shows like this just display how successful a star wars tv show can be.
Viru Lentus
Character
[member="Darth Prazutis"]
They actually planned to during the time of the Prequels but I can't remember why GL cancelled it. I was really excited when news dropped for a Live Action show.
Though if the rumors are true Netflix is supposed to be creating a Live Action show. Considering what they've done with Jessica Jones and Daredevil I have faith that it will be pretty cool.
They actually planned to during the time of the Prequels but I can't remember why GL cancelled it. I was really excited when news dropped for a Live Action show.
Though if the rumors are true Netflix is supposed to be creating a Live Action show. Considering what they've done with Jessica Jones and Daredevil I have faith that it will be pretty cool.
Shadow Hand
[member="Viru Lentus"]
I've watched Daredevil and that is a great show. I hope they do because a live action Star Wars would be EPIC. You could never run out of material to show.
I've watched Daredevil and that is a great show. I hope they do because a live action Star Wars would be EPIC. You could never run out of material to show.
Isis Varida
The Executive
[member="Darth Prazutis"] there was the rumored live action show but it stayed in development hell forever. The main reason why is there would be a lot of effects needed like with all scifi shows. Some get around this with the setting. Firefly scifi series but they explained why everything looked cheap out in the far rim away from the core.
Shadow Hand
Yeah....I hope they can get one out someday. [member="Isis Varida"]
Arlan Zy'rosh
Redemption. Duty. Honor.
I'd have to agree and disagree with most of you all at once. The show is on CN so yes it is a kids show, there's no denying that in any shape or form. I know a bunch of people that really like it, kids and adults, but I've never actually been able to get into it. For me personally, I find it really tedious and simplistic. Half of the time it looks like the writers were just winging it by the way most of the story arcs randomly conclude, and ever great now and then they would throw a character from the EU in to spice things up.
I'm a devoted EU fan, I've read nearly all the material out there from the Legacy comics to YJK books. I devour Legend material, so I often find myself being overly critical on things related to Star Wars. I won't lie about that. When I look at TCW I just can't agree with it on any level. I honestly believe that the reason so many Star Wars fans actually like it is because it is easier to turn on the TV and watch it than it is to get your hands on most of the EU material, and we all know how SW fans crave more Star Wars!
It's been stated already, but I'll say it again. Grevious was completely emasculated in the new series. He went from this imposing figure of what incarnate villainy could be to a comic relief. Yes it's a kids show, but there have been plenty of villains on CN that were actually villainous. Someone mentioned Teen Titans, so Slade Wilson for example. There are ways to make things child friendly without gutting established characters with a rusty knife.
That being said, I've found myself enjoying Star Wars: Rebels. I honestly don't know why, I just like it more for some reason. Honestly I think it's because most of the character they use are completely new so I don't have to cringe every time the show comes on.
Another important thing to note; as in love with the EU as I am the movies are where it is at. Yeah they are corny as hell, the old ones have horrible effects, the new ones have.....Jar Jar......, but they started it all. If you are a fan of Star Wars then they have a special place in your heart, so much so you will get in heated arguments with your girlfriend about why she has never watched them before.
So watch the movies, love them, and join the Darkside. We have cookies.
I'm a devoted EU fan, I've read nearly all the material out there from the Legacy comics to YJK books. I devour Legend material, so I often find myself being overly critical on things related to Star Wars. I won't lie about that. When I look at TCW I just can't agree with it on any level. I honestly believe that the reason so many Star Wars fans actually like it is because it is easier to turn on the TV and watch it than it is to get your hands on most of the EU material, and we all know how SW fans crave more Star Wars!
It's been stated already, but I'll say it again. Grevious was completely emasculated in the new series. He went from this imposing figure of what incarnate villainy could be to a comic relief. Yes it's a kids show, but there have been plenty of villains on CN that were actually villainous. Someone mentioned Teen Titans, so Slade Wilson for example. There are ways to make things child friendly without gutting established characters with a rusty knife.
That being said, I've found myself enjoying Star Wars: Rebels. I honestly don't know why, I just like it more for some reason. Honestly I think it's because most of the character they use are completely new so I don't have to cringe every time the show comes on.
Another important thing to note; as in love with the EU as I am the movies are where it is at. Yeah they are corny as hell, the old ones have horrible effects, the new ones have.....Jar Jar......, but they started it all. If you are a fan of Star Wars then they have a special place in your heart, so much so you will get in heated arguments with your girlfriend about why she has never watched them before.
So watch the movies, love them, and join the Darkside. We have cookies.
Z'Zharen
Apprentice
Ahsoka is my third favorite character in all of star wars right under Palptine and Yoda.
Her growth from 14 year old snips to 30 year old (grey) Jedi Knight in rebels is incredible. She adds depth to Anikan's fall to the dark side. The clone wars adds tremendous depth to that!
Obi-wan lies to him, the council lies to him, Palptine's whispers and praise are some times the only appreciation that Skywalker gets. In the clone wars series Anikan demonstrates traits of being an abusive husband. Padme works with her old boyfriend to uncover a separatist plot, Anikan finds out shes captured and goes to rescue her from the dunegon shes in. When she tells him about her mission with her ex, Skywalker locks her back in to her cell and accusers her of unfaithfulness. Padme's ex Clovis vists her in her apartment and does flirt her since her marriage is a secret, Anikan comes home and beats the frak out of him, punching the guy relentlessly in the face with his metal arm!
Padme is disgusted by his behavior and even considered they should divorce or at least separate.
I dont know too many kids show that depict something like this, or suicide extremists, characters being stabbed or force choked and their corpses physically dragged around. Innocent civilians being enslaved and frakking dropped to their death from a cliff just to aid in the mental breaking of a Jedi prisoner who wants to help these slaves. Even to the extent of offering them water the Jedi is whipped and the slaves he wants to help are whipped even more in front him just to subdue him.
Its not just masked clones and droids that die, significant characters to the story are brutally killed.
Children have died on this show, off screen and on screen to the very least of being teen agers that were killed onscreen. One was about to be put on deaths row for crimes against the Republic and another one might have actually taken that fate.
[member="Viru Lentus"]
Her growth from 14 year old snips to 30 year old (grey) Jedi Knight in rebels is incredible. She adds depth to Anikan's fall to the dark side. The clone wars adds tremendous depth to that!
Obi-wan lies to him, the council lies to him, Palptine's whispers and praise are some times the only appreciation that Skywalker gets. In the clone wars series Anikan demonstrates traits of being an abusive husband. Padme works with her old boyfriend to uncover a separatist plot, Anikan finds out shes captured and goes to rescue her from the dunegon shes in. When she tells him about her mission with her ex, Skywalker locks her back in to her cell and accusers her of unfaithfulness. Padme's ex Clovis vists her in her apartment and does flirt her since her marriage is a secret, Anikan comes home and beats the frak out of him, punching the guy relentlessly in the face with his metal arm!
Padme is disgusted by his behavior and even considered they should divorce or at least separate.
I dont know too many kids show that depict something like this, or suicide extremists, characters being stabbed or force choked and their corpses physically dragged around. Innocent civilians being enslaved and frakking dropped to their death from a cliff just to aid in the mental breaking of a Jedi prisoner who wants to help these slaves. Even to the extent of offering them water the Jedi is whipped and the slaves he wants to help are whipped even more in front him just to subdue him.
Its not just masked clones and droids that die, significant characters to the story are brutally killed.
Children have died on this show, off screen and on screen to the very least of being teen agers that were killed onscreen. One was about to be put on deaths row for crimes against the Republic and another one might have actually taken that fate.
[member="Viru Lentus"]
Viru Lentus
Character
[member="Z'Zharen"]
I've seen every episode of the show so I know full well everything that happens in it. However nothing that you have stated puts it above the comics/novels that took place before the Clone wars and during it. For example the Legends story of Quinlan Vos was probably one of my favorite stories in the EU that while they tried to imitate in the Dark Disciples novel only came up with a facsimile. The story delves into just how one could fall to the darkside without even realizing how far they had fallen. It tells of love, mistakes and speaks on many levels. Not to mention there are plenty of books that expand on Anakin's nature and personality while including some pretty interesting characters. Ferus Olin comes to mind. I will not speak anymore about the cartoon as pointing out each flaw or comparing it to the Legends EU would be a long winded process.
I will simply say that I agree with [member="Arlan Zy'rosh"] that its just the convenience of it being on tv that makes people hold it in such regards. As most of the people I've met that have a deep understanding of Legends and read the comics/books don't like the show due to its contrived plotlines, dull plots, and often times some of the stories even being taken from legends and being ruined. I think the only character I can say I like in the cartoon is Cad Bane and that's because he was a cool bounty hunter and they screwed up Boba Fett.
And as most people said what they did to Grievous is horrible. In the comics and books he was a real threat that even Mace Windu was cautious of. He was more than some mustache twirling villain, he actually did some absolutely devious things. And don't even get me started on how the show makes it seem like Palpatine can just choke out Dooku whenever he wants which is wrong. Dooku wasn't expecting the choke so didn't have his defenses ready to defend against it. If Palpatine could choke out Dooku with his defenses up (Who is one of the best telekinetic users in SW) then he could've done it to Mace Windu who is aknowledged as Dooku's equal. They overlook such simple things. Now people are running around with thoughts that Savage and TCW Maul are some great warriors and Force users when they are nothing but a footnote that would be stomped underfoot by much better and fitting Force users.
I will give the animators credit on their dueling scenes though. Those were entertaining and the fact that they actually got all the forms correct and stuck to the legends material for it was good. Especially Dooku's duels.
I've seen every episode of the show so I know full well everything that happens in it. However nothing that you have stated puts it above the comics/novels that took place before the Clone wars and during it. For example the Legends story of Quinlan Vos was probably one of my favorite stories in the EU that while they tried to imitate in the Dark Disciples novel only came up with a facsimile. The story delves into just how one could fall to the darkside without even realizing how far they had fallen. It tells of love, mistakes and speaks on many levels. Not to mention there are plenty of books that expand on Anakin's nature and personality while including some pretty interesting characters. Ferus Olin comes to mind. I will not speak anymore about the cartoon as pointing out each flaw or comparing it to the Legends EU would be a long winded process.
I will simply say that I agree with [member="Arlan Zy'rosh"] that its just the convenience of it being on tv that makes people hold it in such regards. As most of the people I've met that have a deep understanding of Legends and read the comics/books don't like the show due to its contrived plotlines, dull plots, and often times some of the stories even being taken from legends and being ruined. I think the only character I can say I like in the cartoon is Cad Bane and that's because he was a cool bounty hunter and they screwed up Boba Fett.
And as most people said what they did to Grievous is horrible. In the comics and books he was a real threat that even Mace Windu was cautious of. He was more than some mustache twirling villain, he actually did some absolutely devious things. And don't even get me started on how the show makes it seem like Palpatine can just choke out Dooku whenever he wants which is wrong. Dooku wasn't expecting the choke so didn't have his defenses ready to defend against it. If Palpatine could choke out Dooku with his defenses up (Who is one of the best telekinetic users in SW) then he could've done it to Mace Windu who is aknowledged as Dooku's equal. They overlook such simple things. Now people are running around with thoughts that Savage and TCW Maul are some great warriors and Force users when they are nothing but a footnote that would be stomped underfoot by much better and fitting Force users.
I will give the animators credit on their dueling scenes though. Those were entertaining and the fact that they actually got all the forms correct and stuck to the legends material for it was good. Especially Dooku's duels.
Z'Zharen
Apprentice
[member="Viru Lentus"]
I'm not saying the TCW canon should be considered better than the EU. But it should not be disregarded because its a tv show or even targeted to be a children's tv show. Nor should the stories TCW tells be dismissed as less creative or exciting.
Until season 5 of the clone wars I believe, before Disney bought Star Wars. TCW was intertwined with the original EU. Darth Plageus is one of my favorite books, they talk about Maul's Dathomir background and Mother Talzin, the TCW even had their own comic that followed a similar art style to the Gendy Clone Wars series and comics. The Fate of The Jedi Series which was over 30 years after the RotJ had a stroyline inspired from the clone wars tv series, about the events on Mortis.
Im not a fan of TCW Greivous, hes utterly pathetic compared to Gendy's Greivous who took down 3 Jedi Masters who were at full health, that series made me love Shaak Ti for her impressive combat skills.
I loved the republic comics especially Quin's story (and thought they could have left alone from the new canon, but I did enjoy his scenes with Asajj in the novel), hell I love the Legacy series too. But these "Legends" stories should not be compared to "Canon" as to which is better. Both have great stories and flops.
Personally I never liked the introduction of the Vong and I'm happy they were separated from the new canon at least in this point of time. They defiled the star wars universe, but they did lead to other interesting stories such as the Legacy comics.
I look at the new canon and the old EU the same way with comic book universes in general. I may dislike the canon considered New 52, but the alternate worlds of the JL animated series or Kingdom Come are the stories that I appreciate and identify with more. But 52 had some okay standalone stories. Same thing with marvel, I enjoy their golden age comics and I take their ultimate universe with a grain of salt.
I could spend alot of time nit picking the things I did not like about TCW or any point of time in new canon or the Legends EU, but overall TCW told excellent stories and created wonderful characters and added world building to the SW universe both new canon and EU.
I'm not saying the TCW canon should be considered better than the EU. But it should not be disregarded because its a tv show or even targeted to be a children's tv show. Nor should the stories TCW tells be dismissed as less creative or exciting.
Until season 5 of the clone wars I believe, before Disney bought Star Wars. TCW was intertwined with the original EU. Darth Plageus is one of my favorite books, they talk about Maul's Dathomir background and Mother Talzin, the TCW even had their own comic that followed a similar art style to the Gendy Clone Wars series and comics. The Fate of The Jedi Series which was over 30 years after the RotJ had a stroyline inspired from the clone wars tv series, about the events on Mortis.
Im not a fan of TCW Greivous, hes utterly pathetic compared to Gendy's Greivous who took down 3 Jedi Masters who were at full health, that series made me love Shaak Ti for her impressive combat skills.
I loved the republic comics especially Quin's story (and thought they could have left alone from the new canon, but I did enjoy his scenes with Asajj in the novel), hell I love the Legacy series too. But these "Legends" stories should not be compared to "Canon" as to which is better. Both have great stories and flops.
Personally I never liked the introduction of the Vong and I'm happy they were separated from the new canon at least in this point of time. They defiled the star wars universe, but they did lead to other interesting stories such as the Legacy comics.
I look at the new canon and the old EU the same way with comic book universes in general. I may dislike the canon considered New 52, but the alternate worlds of the JL animated series or Kingdom Come are the stories that I appreciate and identify with more. But 52 had some okay standalone stories. Same thing with marvel, I enjoy their golden age comics and I take their ultimate universe with a grain of salt.
I could spend alot of time nit picking the things I did not like about TCW or any point of time in new canon or the Legends EU, but overall TCW told excellent stories and created wonderful characters and added world building to the SW universe both new canon and EU.
Viru Lentus
Character
[member="Z'Zharen"]
I can see where you're coming from on most of your points and they are very similar to my own. I view Legends as a separate entity from the new canon. Though its just my personal opinion that the new canon leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Which hopefully Disney just goes through with declaring it a separate universe and starts releasing content for it again. I need my Jaina Solo trilogy, and I need to see Ben and Vestera together.
Also on note the FOTJ series started before there was even a mention of mortis and such in TCW if I remember right FOTJ started in 2009 and the show didn't bring The Ones in till 2010 or 2011.
I can see where you're coming from on most of your points and they are very similar to my own. I view Legends as a separate entity from the new canon. Though its just my personal opinion that the new canon leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Which hopefully Disney just goes through with declaring it a separate universe and starts releasing content for it again. I need my Jaina Solo trilogy, and I need to see Ben and Vestera together.
Also on note the FOTJ series started before there was even a mention of mortis and such in TCW if I remember right FOTJ started in 2009 and the show didn't bring The Ones in till 2010 or 2011.
Z'Zharen
Apprentice
[member="Viru Lentus"]
I understand, when I saw the opening crawl for TFA...Luke is the last Jedi....again?!
I wanted to see him as a grand master with a new council, his NJO that I loved from the EU. It is strange that Disney would just shut down the Legends EU and not treat it like their marvel comics property. Yeah they're starting to blend around the MCU films, but they still have alot of what if scenarios and universes in their ongoing comic books. No one declared canon martial law on the comics when disney bought them xD
Maybe in time Disney will allow more content to be added under the "Legends" banner. I felt the same way with the TCW, I wanted to know more about Ahsoka, I was hoping the series would end right at the start of Episode 3.
I understand, when I saw the opening crawl for TFA...Luke is the last Jedi....again?!
I wanted to see him as a grand master with a new council, his NJO that I loved from the EU. It is strange that Disney would just shut down the Legends EU and not treat it like their marvel comics property. Yeah they're starting to blend around the MCU films, but they still have alot of what if scenarios and universes in their ongoing comic books. No one declared canon martial law on the comics when disney bought them xD
Maybe in time Disney will allow more content to be added under the "Legends" banner. I felt the same way with the TCW, I wanted to know more about Ahsoka, I was hoping the series would end right at the start of Episode 3.
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
Alright there seems to be this absolutely humorous foe arrogance from the EU loving crowd. I have consumed every Republic Comic, read every book from that era (as well as most others but we're talking specifically TCW here), and quite frankly your rational is all just heavy handed. It seemingly stems from a strange belief that your fanhood is more strongly developed. That's just false. EU is not complicated. You need to get over that quickly. EU is riddled with humorous contradictions as well. Many of the books are completely simplistic. For instance, the MedStar books are nothing special. They're fun. I enjoyed them, but they're on par with an TCW arc. Shatterpoint is dreadful and literally built around the premise of making Mace Windu a badass. Talk about simplistic, good lord that book was built upon it.
Now, I love the Republic comic series. Do not get me wrong, I probably even prefer it over TCW but I love TCW. I like Asajj in the Republic series more. I miss Durge (seriously no idea why he was not in TCW). The Jabiim arc is still one of my absolute favorite things. The whole portrayal of the padawan pack is just a thing of beauty. ARC troopers like Alpha are boss. However, despite all of this TCW is still an amazing thing. It is also what we have as canon now, and ya know what? I'm okay with that. It is more easily accessible for fans across the board, which is better for the franchise, but it is also good in its own right. People like to complain about some silly stuff when it comes to TCW. Mandalorians have one of the best arcs. As dumb as Maul being alive is, it results in amazing moments. So amazing that they are worth the silliness.
What I believe we have here are instead those who watched a season, maybe two, of TCW and judged it there. While I contend those seasons are good in their own right, the show does not truly come into its own until season three. Those who actually watch the entire show will frequently see episodes that are deeply engrossed in the Star Wars mythos. Episodes which expand upon principles we don't know much about. Actual explanations of what it means for Anakin to be the chosen one. We gain more insight into the development of Anakin, more so than we ever see in Jedi Trials or Labyrinth of Evil.
As a point to, [member="Viru Lentus"], Fate of the Jedi did in fact start before the Mortis Trilogy on TCW. However, it concluded well after the Mortis Trilogy and did shoe horn Aboleth as the Mother. It was honestly pretty dumb. But Fate of the Jedi is a dumb series. Legacy of the Force was pretty dumb as well, but at least had some good moments. Though the best take away from Legacy of the Force, which I wish people on this site would understand, is that the darkside corrupts the user. Even Jacen as virtue driven as he is corrupted by it. Dude full on does completely stupid stuff because of the corruption. But we have dufuses on here who insist they can still be good despite leaning on the darkside all the time.
Now, I love the Republic comic series. Do not get me wrong, I probably even prefer it over TCW but I love TCW. I like Asajj in the Republic series more. I miss Durge (seriously no idea why he was not in TCW). The Jabiim arc is still one of my absolute favorite things. The whole portrayal of the padawan pack is just a thing of beauty. ARC troopers like Alpha are boss. However, despite all of this TCW is still an amazing thing. It is also what we have as canon now, and ya know what? I'm okay with that. It is more easily accessible for fans across the board, which is better for the franchise, but it is also good in its own right. People like to complain about some silly stuff when it comes to TCW. Mandalorians have one of the best arcs. As dumb as Maul being alive is, it results in amazing moments. So amazing that they are worth the silliness.
What I believe we have here are instead those who watched a season, maybe two, of TCW and judged it there. While I contend those seasons are good in their own right, the show does not truly come into its own until season three. Those who actually watch the entire show will frequently see episodes that are deeply engrossed in the Star Wars mythos. Episodes which expand upon principles we don't know much about. Actual explanations of what it means for Anakin to be the chosen one. We gain more insight into the development of Anakin, more so than we ever see in Jedi Trials or Labyrinth of Evil.
As a point to, [member="Viru Lentus"], Fate of the Jedi did in fact start before the Mortis Trilogy on TCW. However, it concluded well after the Mortis Trilogy and did shoe horn Aboleth as the Mother. It was honestly pretty dumb. But Fate of the Jedi is a dumb series. Legacy of the Force was pretty dumb as well, but at least had some good moments. Though the best take away from Legacy of the Force, which I wish people on this site would understand, is that the darkside corrupts the user. Even Jacen as virtue driven as he is corrupted by it. Dude full on does completely stupid stuff because of the corruption. But we have dufuses on here who insist they can still be good despite leaning on the darkside all the time.
Viru Lentus
Character
[member="Selena Halcyon"]
I do not see my fanhood as more developed but there were far less silly and kiddy moments in the EU than in the TCW cartoon. I never even said such a thing. From what I've seen most people that prefer the cartoon usually also prefer the movies and always thought nothing outside of it really mattered in comparison.
Though I have states my points numerous times why I prefer the EU. I respect others opinions on why they like TCW, but my opinion on the show will not change.
Which just because one falls to the dark side does not mean they are always corrupted. Wanting someone to stick to something such as that because it happened to Jacen is just your personal opinion. Bane was very much a calm Dark Lord that only acted when he needed to. Dooku was the same way. However I would say that looking at things as simple black and white is dull. The force encompasses more than those two sides. If people don't like it Aw well gotta roll with the punches.
I do not see my fanhood as more developed but there were far less silly and kiddy moments in the EU than in the TCW cartoon. I never even said such a thing. From what I've seen most people that prefer the cartoon usually also prefer the movies and always thought nothing outside of it really mattered in comparison.
Though I have states my points numerous times why I prefer the EU. I respect others opinions on why they like TCW, but my opinion on the show will not change.
Which just because one falls to the dark side does not mean they are always corrupted. Wanting someone to stick to something such as that because it happened to Jacen is just your personal opinion. Bane was very much a calm Dark Lord that only acted when he needed to. Dooku was the same way. However I would say that looking at things as simple black and white is dull. The force encompasses more than those two sides. If people don't like it Aw well gotta roll with the punches.