Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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Tef's Questions For The Forum

1. Why are you guys always so salty? You can answer jokingly or seriously, take this question at face value.

2. Are we aware that metagaming is not against the rules? Metagaming isn't mentioned in the rules. There's some mentions of specific forms (stampeding), yes, but no mention of generalized "metagaming".

3. Do we want metagaming to be mentioned and ruled against in the rules?

4. Are you aware/have you thought of the consequences of giving Staff the official power to judge and rule against metagaming?

5. I know I said there'd never be another map reset after Netherworld ...but do we want another map reset?
 
1. CUZ I WANT TO DIE OF A HEART ATTACK OK GOSH LET ME DIE IN PEACE (tbh though I believe it's because it's easy to get extremely immersed into a community like this, so much so that it's hard to remember that all of this is fiction, and done for fun. It's not just here, either; any sort of community made up of fans of something will invariably start churning out it's worth in salt.)

2. Honestly? I always assumed it was, mostly because a lot of roleplay communities (or at least rpg communities) prohibit metagaming without consent from all parties involved.

3. I mean I personally don't have a problem with rules prohibiting metagaming, I think it helps keep things "fair" when it comes to pvp interactions, but I'd love to hear any counterpoints to it.

4. Wouldn't the consequences be the same as letting the staff have any other power...?

5. idefk fam i'm just here for the drama llamas
 
Tefka said:
5. I know I said there'd never be another map reset after Netherworld ...but do we want another map reset?
I don't think it's necessary given the state of the map and factions in it. I mean, I wouldn't mind either way, but it isn't like early 2015 where the map was almost completely full.


Tefka said:
3. Do we want metagaming to be mentioned and ruled against in the rules?
No. I am aware we can't ban the negative effects of metagaming and keep the positive ones. I'm also aware that everything from talking about IC stuff in OOC to planning out invasions or threads ahead of time would be metagaming. It's not just doing IC things for OOC reasons to screw the next person over. If you can ban just that, and somehow effectively police it, you're probably the second coming of Jesus.
 

Kay-Larr

Sphaera Tea Company Owner
1. I'm not salty. Too easy going to be salty. I'm safely out of the dramas (I think).

2. Not quite certain what metagaming is, to tell you the truth. I've just heard it being said that some people do it.

3. If that would create less salt for everyone, then sure.

4. Is there a consequence for staff to use their powers? I'd probably go to it as a last resort. You all have enough on your plates.

5. Map reset? Does that mean that all the faction clouds go away and people have to start over?
 

Rusty

Purveyor of Fine Weaponry
1: I suspect the salinity has something to do with the emotional attachment that comes from working hard to build something, only to see someone else try to smash it to bits. Nevermind that the smashing is all part of the game, people don't like seeing their stuff on the receiving end. This leads to grudges, which lead to anger, then hate, then suffering, all told in a subpar trilogy that leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

2: Metagaming may not be against the rules, but it's often considered to be against the spirit of RP, so people just sort of assume that it's something that moderators look out for.

3: I'm all for finding meaningful ways to reduce metagaming, but the problem with regulating against it is that it's extremely hard to come up with an agreeable, workable definition of what is and isn't allowable. Some level of metagaming is present in nearly all forms of RP, and most of it is benign. Trying to draw the line between what is and isn't acceptable is something that takes a great deal of finesse, if you want to do it right. Trying to prove that an action counts as metagaming can also be somewhat tricky.

4: With great power comes great responsibility, and it's almost a guarantee that someone is going to make the wrong call in the long run. Should that dissuade anyone from the attempt? Not necessarily. Our staff is generally pretty good at admitting mistakes if they can be proven. The real question is, do you guys want that headache on top of everything else?

5: Could be fun if done right. The mad scramble for territory might push a couple factions under, but I bet it'll give new ones a fighting chance to do more than beg for scraps from the big boys.
 
1: Kesh has alot of Salt Mines
2: I was not actually.
3: I don't really care.
4: Again, don't care about Metagaming

5: I would absolutely love a map wipe... for reasons... specific reasons... *Whistles*
 
1. Good question. A question I wished I had an answer for.
2. Yes I did know.
3. No I do not wish it to be a rule.
4. I don’t wish it to be a rule. There for I do not wish to have staff to run around and determine what is metagaming is. A simple post with a Jedi using forsight could become a argument about what is metagaming.
5. We could reset but if we did it will just be like big green stopping invasions on another board far, far away. We will never learn from our mistakes.... If we reset the board I would rather prefer it to be because of an IC reason. Maybe something that has happened in a board wide event.
 

Mars Tonith

Banktankerous Muun
1: Has anyone ever been in a D&D group that didn't have a spat everyone once in a while? Every year or so? We've got a lot of people. Someone's bound to be salty about something.

2: Eh. Some level of metagaming is necessary in any roleplaying exercise, but most try to avoid it when possible. A story loses it's lustre when its too convenient.

3: I don't think it's necessary personally, but I can see an argument for it.

4: Are you saying that Tyranny would Reign?

5: Not that I've paid attention to the map game lately, but I'm not sure resets specifically are important as maintaining map fluidity. I wouldn't look down on a reset, but I think it's treating symptoms rather than causes.
 
Tefka said:
1. Why are you guys always so salty? You can answer jokingly or seriously, take this question at face value.
My real opinion? Its the telephone tough guy syndrome. I'm sure that if i met the saltiest of the lads on here in real life, they'd be incredibly normal. They'd probably act like any other person in the world, hell, some even might be more polite than everyone else around them. Why? Because in the real world if you are a jerk to someone, or use half the words that I've seen used at me on discord or skype you risk getting your lights punched out. But here, the worst that can happen is you get cussed out back. Then, that person just cusses you out more. And it goes back and forth. There's no real penalty for being salty here. Note: that when saltiness was taken into consideration for the whole invasion and rebellion thing, I saw a drop in saltiness. Because, for no other reason, than the possible penalty for it.

Second reason why I think people are salty here: anonymity. You can call someone every thing in the book here and then put the phone down or close your laptop or step away from the desktop (who still has a desktop anyway?) and no one can know you did--except the folks who see your avatar. Your effectively anonymous. You have no real identity. Just your anime avatar.

Third reason: immaturity. Ever play call of duty with a 7 year old? I have. Turns out they have quite a vocabulary.

Fourth: Boredom. This sounds really stupid, but true. When people are bored, they can get violent. Just cause they are bored and want to call someone else a bundle of twigs. Just tearing people down for the fun of it is as old as the ancient Greeks when rich nobles would hire poets to go and write insults for their rivals--just because they were bored and had nothing better to do. (well they did, but they didn't do it, hence the fall of the Greek Empire).

Most of the time I don't think its some major psychological disorder or some horrible problem. Simply put I think bored people think they can get away it so they do it.

2-4: I want a rule against mega gaming. I am totally fine with any fall out for it or consequences there of. Do it. Please.

5. Nah, I think the map is flourishing better than it has in a while, but that might just be me. But if you want to, do it.
 
1. Why are you guys always so salty? You can answer jokingly or seriously, take this question at face value.

1.1: No Idea. It just happens.

2. Are we aware that metagaming is not against the rules? Metagaming isn't mentioned in the rules. There's some mentions of specific forms (stampeding), yes, but no mention of generalized "metagaming".

2.1 Was not aware.

3. Do we want metagaming to be mentioned and ruled against in the rules?

3.1 Please.

4. Are you aware/have you thought of the consequences of giving Staff the official power to judge and rule against metagaming?

4.1 People being more careful about their RPs isn't a bad thing.

5. I know I said there'd never be another map reset after Netherworld ...but do we want another map reset?

5.1 On the fence about this.
 
[member="Tefka"]
I'm only going to talk about #5.
If you need to reset things to keep it interesting, then it's the rules that need resetting, not the game itself. I have done a little bit of thinking, and thought up some ideas:
  • Allow for minor factions to rise to major in lands another major faction controls
  • Make it so that factions with more than 10 (or something like that) hexes can have major factions rise up in their lands, Clone Wars type of thing
  • Make it so that those count towards the original controller's dominations for the month
  • If a faction has two rebellions in a month, make them do a thread to make sure they don't lose lands near those rebellions
Example: The Republic wants to become a major faction with Coruscant as their capital. They do a rebellion against the GA, and if they succeed, they get the Coruscant hex. Now let's say that GA has already done two hex doms, not expecting the Republic to rise, making their doms now three, so the FO makes a rebellion appear near them. Whether the GA won or lost those battles, they now have had two rebellions, and therefore has to do another thread, reaching 75 posts by the end of the month, else three other hexes become neutral.

Just an idea, I just feel like at the moment, it is too easy for a faction to keep a hex after they take it over.
 
1) One’s perception, cognizance of events across the board, and misinterpretation of written text are some of what I believe to be the primary causes for salt around these parts. So far, I’ve found that talking things out with folks in a cordial manner turns out for the best, even when it’s effortless to fall prey to high horse diatribes, and finger pointing. Maybe if communication and some common courtesy for the person on the other end of the screen came about, then a majority of the issues we have regarding “salt” might fade away over time. Much like anything in life, though, you can only open the door for someone - it’s up to them to take a step past the threshold.

2) Yes; I’m very aware of that. Heavily frowned upon was the term I believe was used the last time something like this was brought up.

3) To be perfectly honest, I don’t think we need it to be made into an officialized ruling. However, with that said, on a previous site of mine, I found that it was easier to have it as an unwritten rule - more in the sense of RP etiquette. Something we as the community understand, and try to avoid as much as humanly possible. Back it up with as much In Character knowledge as you feasibly can, and talk with folks to see what would be a reasonable amount of information to garner from certain situations going on around the board.

4) I have, and I’m not sure I like the idea - mostly due to the misinterpretation and perception angles listed in my first answer.

5) Personally, I think that would make a lot of people upset - especially with how much work’s been put into a map that’s nothing like it was before the Netherworld event. I wasn’t apart of the community then, but I’ve seen pictures… That must’ve been crazy to go through it all. Getting back on track here, IF it had to be done, and that’s a mighty big if, I’d prefer that there was a story hook. Something feasible, that folks would agree with, and would ease the pain of watching your map blob vanish into thin air. Make it something we as writers can work with and weave into our narratives.

Anyways, that’s just my two nickels (My country got rid of the penny a few years back, and now I have to dish out more money with my opinions and answers. Sorry!)
 
The RP has functioned well enough without metagaming rules, so I think we can go without them.

In regards to a map reset, the people who would make a faction have already made a faction, so I don't think it would come with any benefits. You'd create unwanted salt from an already salty community.
 
1. Why are you guys always so salty? You can answer jokingly or seriously, take this question at face value.

I feel that much of the time, Players across the board are prone to taking In-Character actions as Out-Of-Character context and added with a lack of open discussion between the writers outside of these threads, can lead to some of the sources of excess Sodium. While striving to be as passive and mutually respectful of my interactions with my fellow writers, sadly the Internet is not without some of the more vocal of opinions (everyone has one) and are often prone to voicing them when others might come from a conflicting view.

We have a wide variety of individuals within this community of all ages, backgrounds and views. Not unlike real life, these people will at times conflict with one another. Perhaps the better question and need for emphasis may be in encouraging others in how to deal with their differences respectfully and maturely.

We too have rules in place on Chaos for good reason and while no one enjoys having to enforce these, should things get out of hand, better they're put into use than seeing members leave or create a bigger scene.

2. Are we aware that metagaming is not against the rules? Metagaming isn't mentioned in the rules. There's some mentions of specific forms (stampeding), yes, but no mention of generalized "metagaming".

Truthfully I wasn't aware of this at all. Meta-gaming has always been frowned upon throughout all the communities I've been within and I may have well been at fault for presuming it was the same case here. Color me surprised indeed !

3. Do we want metagaming to be mentioned and ruled against in the rules?

Mentioned certainly yes, however enforcing such a rule would be difficult. A job for Roleplay Judges no doubt, and circumstantial. In order to promote fairness within our member-base and IC and OOC interactions, there needs to be strong discouragement towards the practice of meta-gaming, in my opinion.

Take for example:
  • The First Order (The Order of Ren), are a secretive bunch who keep their personnel and operations closely guarded with the help of the First Order Security Bureau. An Outsider would not know much if anything without inside disclosure.
  • An invading Army attacks said Faction world, the defending faction claims to have removed all personnel and influence of military or political importance out of the area of interest just days prior yet showing no proof nor threads of such a move.
These examples are not unrealistic and have been seen before. Both occasions worked to discourage the players involved and wound up adding to a degree of sodium that took away from the threads being enacted. On one similar occasion this resulted in a member leaving Chaos for a number of weeks.

4. Are you aware/have you thought of the consequences of giving Staff the official power to judge and rule against metagaming?

Again, not an easy rule to enforce and the consequences of decisions made by factions specifically would be questioned with any given report or suspicion of actions taken with OOC prejudice or reasoning. There are Pro's and Con's to this rule being enforced and it would be very touch and go.

Is it more trouble than it's worth? We can probably do without it but by personal preference? I like to see things done fairly for all.

I would support the move.

5. I know I said there'd never be another map reset after Netherworld ...but do we want another map reset?

I honestly do not see much of a problem with our current Map nor have I seen anything like it on any other site that I've been a part of. A change might throw in a little excitement, the newness of it all pulling in peoples incentive to push forward on that ol' map game we hate to love so much, yet is it nessecary for Chaos to continue to thrive? No, not in my opinion. What we've got right here is most excellent!
 
1. Am I salty? Goddamn! Been throwing all that split salt over my shoulder and now it's all over me... *mumbles about salt*

2. Ah damn salt... What was the question?... Oh, I thought extreme metagaming was not allowed? Like IC knowing a secret only OOC you would know. Even if it was to save your char... But from comments, think we can assume the good community here is not metagamimg fans...

3. This damn salt is in my hair... I swear, if I scratch my head it looks like dandruff... Maybe it is dandruff... Do I have dandruff..? *googles advice for dandruff and question* Right, says to wash with STHPECIAL shampoo... That helps right?

Seriously though, I can see fair arguments against overseeing us metagaming and banning all areas. But if you need to ask about it, perhaps metagaming that is disrupting IC rping should be banned. Planning IC threads and discussing fates, that isn't something hindering rp, but using OOC knowledge and abusing to attack when IC it wouldnt make sense or to jump into territory to abuse it. Maybe a no no.

4. Okay so dandruff in hair not salt, then why does my skin taste salty! Ha! Someone rubbed salt all over me. Whaaa... What do you mean sweat...? *googles sweat taste* Ahhh... explains why Im most salty after being at the gym... yeah I gym... no, don't mean after walking home with my unhealthy dinner...

Consequences? Depends on how strict we are being with the term metagaming. If we all agree on what should and shouldnt be allowed in terms of metagaming then, we as a community, should trust you as staff to uphold it. Mean, we were apparently trusting you already without realising it wasnt a rule...

5. (Ive run out of salt jokes... Dont care if you all hated the others... its 6am here and Im pre coffee! Be glad I tried! XD)

Map reset... Dunno if that would fix the problem. And it would ruin ongoing Doms and such, all previous Doms be worthless in some way which would be upsetting. So perhaps a look into invasions, rebellions and doms. Restricting how many a faction can have in a month or a set period. Just with the fall of the Dominion, I noticed they were having countless Skirmishs, Invasions and attacks from multiple factions. While yes, this is okay, it is straining in writing. Some of us dont have time to just write for those, or even want to. Some rather less map game rp, but respect that others like map game so not wanting it gone. Just few attacks on a Faction per month, invasion/skirmish wise. Give writers a break in between them.

That's all I got to say, nice shower to be salt free!
 
1.) I'm sure it's very different from person-to-person.

2.) I think most people are aware of this, but it doesn't stop it from becoming a sticky issue every now and again.

3.) No. Especially in a play-by-post environment. The way I see it "metagaming" isn't an inherently negative thing, it's an aspect of roleplay that happens in some way in every roleplay. Sure it can be annoying when we perceive another writer as breaking character in order to do something, but sometimes it's just fun to see an opportunity and put your character in a position to exploit it.

But honestly not everyone (myself included) wants to do intelligence gathering threads beforehand. I don't see anything wrong with assuming it was done in the background, because writers control the narrative together. Everything that happens in the thread is in a shared writing space, and not any one writer is able to dictate the thread.

4.) I've seen it happen on other boards before, and frankly I believe it leads to too many problems. [member="Jorus Merrill"] pointed out the big reason why. It's far too subjective and I tend to see the same writers being punished for it as other ones get away with doing the same thing because more people accuse the former than the latter.

5.) I think we're fine without it. More factions have been going minor on the regular when activity drops, and there's still a variety of active ones sitting on the map.
 

sabrina

Well-Known Member
Q1. Why are you guys always so salty? You can answer jokingly or seriously, take this question at face value.
A1: Real Live gets you down, and you can't tell someone is joking, or you take it way more serious than you should.
A2: Your the way inclined
A3: As you get fed up of someone and feel the need to lash out

Q2. Are we aware that metagaming is not against the rules? Metagaming isn't mentioned in the rules. There's some mentions of specific forms (stampeding), yes, but no mention of generalized "metagaming".
A1: No, though it is a good job, as without it their would be no rping, with galactic population of hundreds of trillions people, how would we all meet.
A2: Is it truly meta gaming with a force user, or did they sense they just had to be their?

Q3. Do we want metagaming to be mentioned and ruled against in the rules?
A1: Only if it impedes another person rp, and they can not justify it.

Q4. Are you aware/have you thought of the consequences of giving Staff the official power to judge and rule against metagaming?
A1: Yes less rp opportunities.

Q5. I know I said there'd never be another map reset after Netherworld ...but do we want another map reset?
A1: No as faction I am in just took Serenno. (selfish I know, but why not)
 
Tefka said:
5. I know I said there'd never be another map reset after Netherworld ...but do we want another map reset?
But you put the rainbow in the sky! In promise never again to-

Oh, wait. Being informed that was another dude and a flood.

NM, carry on.
 

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