The Rebellion System is Broken

[Dune Rhur]

Before any of you chime in with 'stop being salty because you lost', it's besides the point. The Rebellion system is broken. There are basically no rules whatsoever to stop a group of major faction writers to make alts in a minor faction to gank another group they dislike. And let's no b.s. and claim it doesn't happen. You know it does, I know it does.

You may say 'well what should we do?'. That isn't my job, I am not an RPJ or staff. I can only make a couple suggestions:

1) The RPJ should be one who did not have ANY direct involvement with the thread. Bias exists, stop pretending you are impartial if you were on one side or the other or tried to be.

2) Why are second chances handed out except in the most extreme circumstances. This little addendum just means someone can appeal until they get what they want.

3) Add actual criteria. Another writer said essentially judging a story on how good you find it is is too subjective to properly work. I find myself agreeing in this thread.

4) It should be added in that a faction cannot be rebelled unlimited times in any period. There need to be limits. Rebellions sap writer's attention. Let's be honest, they turn into a total shit show quite often. They are not often fun to write because you almost always end up with people post cutting, hit-calling, metagaming etc. And no, I don't want to cry to a staff member every single damn time. They are people and I can appreciate that they don't wanna deal with that every week. I also don't wanna sit through that crap.

5) Limit who can join on either side. If you have some kind of defensive alliance or something set in actual formal terms IC, absolutely. But why is it that any Tom, Dick or Harry can jump on board? Again, that just promotes ganking. You have beef with a faction, what better time to jump on board against them. Without sounding like a broken record: it happens, stop pretending it doesn't.

5b) You are a minor faction, you should be labouring at a disadvantage. Sorry, but you're a rebel cell, a terrorist/freedom fighter group, a cult or a corporation. If you are going up against a big, multi-world spanning government, you are pretty likely to get squashed. This ties into....

6) Basically, the way it's set up now, being a major faction means you actually have a disadvantage. People have to work to earn major status and this just basically makes it not worth it when you try to expand with a half-decent story you can get side-swiped every bloody month. Again, major faction nemeses can just make alts to get back at you some other way.

At this point it's obvious things need to change. You can ignore it and turn back into the Chaos where people get frustrated and leave like they have very recently. Or you can attempt to not sink into the mire of 'meh' and mediocrity. I leave that up to you.

 

[Malok]

If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

When you go major you sign a contract between yourself and every other writer on the site. You say "I believe that my friends and I are competent and capable enough to paint the map a funky color. If you don't think we can, BRING IT." Don't complain when people bring it on harder than you can handle.

Lick your wounds. Lose the sodium (it's terrible for your arteries). Prove you're worthy of keeping that funky shade of purple or get off the map. It's really that simple.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

Ok, for the sake of argument let's say you've got a point. What precise changes would you​ implement? What comes next?

 

[Darth Ferus]

Ho boy. Coulda gone about this in a pretty different manner. I dunno anything about rebellions or invasions for that matter, but this post reminds me of the dead sea.

Good luck man, next time dont point fingers and offer solutions in a more respectful manner. Cause this thread is probably gonna be a lolzy one to read.

 

[Arrbi Betna]

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

Honestly, from having watched many rebellions, I can say that while the system isn't perfect there is a time limit that the Rebellion has to be declared during, after that you have to resort to an invasion. As long as rebellions are a thing, people are going to try and push against a faction they don't like whether the reasons are IC or OOC isn't really all that important. It is going to happen regardless. So you have an issue with someone in a rebellion? Then PM them and work it out. That didn't work? Then elevate it to an RPJ. Don't like the result of the decision? Ask another RPJ to take a look. Reading through the entire post you put up here, I don't see the first suggestion that would fix anything or help to stem the supposed issues you point out.

Also the rebellion is open to anyone as it is born from a T3 dominion that was also, you guessed it, open to others outside that faction. Amazing how that works isn't it? There isn't a hard limit to how many can join the rebellion, because there isn't a hard limit to how many can join in the dominion to start with, again, I know this is hard to comprehend. Many times defenses that are there and have been built up in the past through other story arcs are left alone by the faction doing the dominion unless they did their homework or had a good idea going into it that such things were in place. So when the rebel cell starts utilizing defenses that were ignored by the 'attackers' you say they shouldn't be able to. Why not? The RP is there to back up the use of such things and if it is still functioning then yes, rebels are going to make use of it to gain any advantage they can. You say you don't want to sound like a broken record, yet say the same thing multiple times, and I will say having talked to people from different factions who have been part of many invasions/rebellions they haven't ever claimed that the metagaming and such doesn't happen. They have never said that ganking doesn't happen.

Final point, if you don't want to deal with 'all that crap' as you so eloquently put it, then dont participate in the rebellion. It is that simple really.

 

[Aithne Charr]

Forgive me for the blatant word, but [member="Dune Rhur"]

The only way yo win a rebellion is your conduct OOC and to write the better overall story than your opponents. Game mechanics and objectives mean nothing, 'winning battles mean nothing. Only your ability to craft a story.

Forgive my bluntness, but your inability to accept this is likely part of the reason you guys lost. And I'm not even in the rebellion in question, so I have no bias to tbis.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

Too much salt, needs more pepper.

 

[Travis Caalgen]

1) The RPJ should be one who did not have ANY direct involvement with the thread. Bias exists, stop pretending you are impartial if you were on one side or the other or tried to be.

Just a reminder, assuming that Staff isn't impartial is an insult to all of us. We work hard, and we make sure that roleplay, the Factory, the Codex, and the board as a whole is fair for all, and I don't think any of us appreciate this remark.

 

[Rinoman]

I swear this site is a toxic dump.

 

[Lok Xiangu]

Too much salt, needs more pepper.

Needs more potassium.

 

[Tefka]

1) The RPJ should be one who did not have ANY direct involvement with the thread. Bias exists, stop pretending you are impartial if you were on one side or the other or tried to be.

It is Staff policy to never allow RPJs who were involved in the thread to rule on the thread. The RPJ who ruled on your Rebellion was not in the thread, so where is this coming from?

2) Why are second chances handed out except in the most extreme circumstances. This little addendum just means someone can appeal until they get what they want.

Second Chances are 'handed out' when they are requested, not the most 'extreme circumstances'. You can't appeal until you get what you want, you only appeal once. The Second Chance decision is final, there are no Third/Fourth chances.

3) Add actual criteria. Another writer said essentially judging a story on how good you find it is is too subjective to properly work. I find myself agreeing in this thread.

Staff is always open to suggestions.

4) It should be added in that a faction cannot be rebelled unlimited times in any period. There need to be limits. Rebellions sap writer's attention. Let's be honest, they turn into a total poodoo show quite often. They are not often fun to write because you almost always end up with people post cutting, hit-calling, metagaming etc. And no, I don't want to cry to a staff member every single damn time. They are people and I can appreciate that they don't wanna deal with that every week. I also don't wanna sit through that crap.

What further limits would you wish?

• The target of a Rebellion must be a Tier 3 Dominion

This is a pretty huge limitation. You didn't use to be able to do tiered dominions - they were introduced as a bonus for dominions, and Rebellions were introduced at the same time as their potential consequence.

5) Limit who can join on either side. If you have some kind of defensive alliance or something set in actual formal terms IC, absolutely. But why is it that any Tom, Dick or Harry can jump on board? Again, that just promotes ganking. You have beef with a faction, what better time to jump on board against them. Without sounding like a broken record: it happens, stop pretending it doesn't.

This was actually the intent. Your friends can jump in, same as your enemies. If you've made nothing but enemies, probably best to stick to Tier 1 dominions.

5b) You are a minor faction, you should be labouring at a disadvantage. Sorry, but you're a rebel cell, a terrorist/freedom fighter group, a cult or a corporation. If you are going up against a big, multi-world spanning government, you are pretty likely to get squashed. This ties into....

The Rebel Alliance was made up of several factions, the rules allow for this to happen. Furthermore, rebellions promote dissension/anarchy in the area, and is why the premise was designed as a "battle royale".

6) Basically, the way it's set up now, being a major faction means you actually have a disadvantage. People have to work to earn major status and this just basically makes it not worth it when you try to expand with a half-decent story you can get side-swiped every bloody month. Again, major faction nemeses can just make alts to get back at you some other way.

If you tier 3 dominion, yes. It's not a disadvantage - it's a potential consequence. The disadvantage comes from not planning for the eventual outcome that a Tier 3 Dominion will be the target of a Rebellion.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

I swear this site is a toxic dump.

Welcome to Chaos

Alternately,

GENERAL RULES

1. Multiple ‘writer’ accounts are not allowed. All profiles must be created as ‘character’ subaccounts to your main writer account.

 

[Tefka]

[member="Ashin Karrde"] [member="Rinoman"]

Thanks, but we're already looking into it, Ashin.

Pretty easy to spot the rule-breakers when they oust themselves voluntarily.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

Brb changing title.

 

[Kenrath]

You may say 'well what should we do?'. That isn't my job, I am not an RPJ or staff. I can only make a couple suggestions:

So basically you are just here to cause drama because I see very little suggestions in this tirade about how unfair life is to you.

1) The RPJ should be one who did not have ANY direct involvement with the thread. Bias exists, stop pretending you are impartial if you were on one side or the other or tried to be.

I swear to god the next time I see somebody blatantly blasting ALL RPJs as corrupt I am going to lose what little mind I have left. If you have a problem with something a RPJ does talk to them privately if you don't get a resolution...........notice I said resolution and not what you want then take it privately to an Admin. Stop character assassinating staff members to try and make yourself look like the savior of the little guy, the voice of the people. Not everyone agrees with you or asked for your representation.

2) Why are second chances handed out except in the most extreme circumstances. This little addendum just means someone can appeal until they get what they want.

What? No I mean really what? I don't even want to know what orifice you pulled this out of. As Tef has already said that is not even how that works.

3) Add actual criteria. Another writer said essentially judging a story on how good you find it is is too subjective to properly work. I find myself agreeing in this thread.

I distinctly remember seeing not too long ago a pretty substantial post in regards to guidelines on how threads are typically judged. I also distinctly remember it being more than two sentences long. The worst part of this point and i use the term point loosely in this case his the lack of Guide line suggestion you have listed to potentially replace the ones that already exist.

4) It should be added in that a faction cannot be rebelled unlimited times in any period. There need to be limits. Rebellions sap writer's attention. Let's be honest, they turn into a total poodoo show quite often. They are not often fun to write because you almost always end up with people post cutting, hit-calling, metagaming etc. And no, I don't want to cry to a staff member every single damn time. They are people and I can appreciate that they don't wanna deal with that every week. I also don't wanna sit through that crap.

I don't even know how to respond to this one so I am going to leave this alone.

5) Limit who can join on either side. If you have some kind of defensive alliance or something set in actual formal terms IC, absolutely. But why is it that any Tom, Dick or Harry can jump on board? Again, that just promotes ganking. You have beef with a faction, what better time to jump on board against them. Without sounding like a broken record: it happens, stop pretending it doesn't.

So what you are saying is Staff should jump in every time you can't control your faction? My question is then why do you have a faction. If you can or are unwilling to perform the roles and responsibilities of leadership then step aside and let someone who can do so. Or if this is a case of current leadership unable to do so perhaps a conversation in private with your faction would be a better way to handle that concern.

5b) You are a minor faction, you should be laboring at a disadvantage. Sorry, but you're a rebel cell, a terrorist/freedom fighter group, a cult or a corporation. If you are going up against a big, multi-world spanning government, you are pretty likely to get squashed. This ties into....

Most minor factions do but you operate under the assumption that just because they are minor they don't have friends or allies who are not so minor in strength or influence. Chose your fights wisely like a fair number of others do.

6) Basically, the way it's set up now, being a major faction means you actually have a disadvantage. People have to work to earn major status and this just basically makes it not worth it when you try to expand with a half-decent story you can get side-swiped every bloody month. Again, major faction nemeses can just make alts to get back at you some other way.

Don't you just hate when you can't control every little detail of every other writer on the entire site so you make sure you get the outcome YOU want every other writer and their stories be darned. I know it bugs the crap out of me.

At this point it's obvious things need to change. You can ignore it and turn back into the Chaos where people get frustrated and leave like they have very recently. Or you can attempt to not sink into the mire of 'meh' and mediocrity. I leave that up to you.

I am going you with one final little note. Rebellions are not broken. The RPJs are not out to get you specifically..I am sure they are way to busy with real issues to focus on you 24/7 365. If you don't like participating in Rebellions then don't participate in Rebellions. There are plenty of smaller Dominions, skirmishes, and other threads to build your characters stories around. I would also avoid Invasions if I were you since it may be exhausting to have to blast an entire website the next time an Invasion doesn't go the way you wanted to.

 

[Arctorius]

[member="Lok Munin"], then we just add the water...

 

[Tefka]

I'm just going to leave this here.

You can disagree with the OP without sounding like an nerf herder.​

 

[Lynn Nantaris]

Hey guys, as much as this is fun to read let's back up and not add more salt and rude comments. Staff seems to be handling it already.

Edit: opps, tefka beat me to it.

 

[Eugen Aker]

[member="Dune Rhur"] Firstly, speaking as one friend to another, this whole post was made in really bad taste. You need to stop flying off the panhandle everytime something doesn't go your way. As a prominent member of the Dominion, your behavior reflects poorly on the faction as a whole. Don't repeat the same mistakes you made in the GR and FO.

If you want people to listen to you, then you should probably refrain from calling out staff members for corruption. That's a quick way to basically have everyone turn on you without considering anything you're actually saying. They're only human, they try to do the best they can. If the staff is as corrupt as you say, then how did the old GR, a faction pretty much universally reviled on the board, and at the time much weaker than the Dominion is now, still manage to win all its Rebellions?

As for the topic of Rebellion itself. In a word, tough. You open yourself up to Rebellions anytime you shoot for a Tier 2 or 3 Dom. That's the risk that goes with the reward of claiming more planets in one go. In most cases, Rebellions are weighed heavily in favor of the major faction doing the domming. So that means it's usually your Rebellion to lose. From what I've been able to pick up, that's exactly what happened. Don't like Rebellions? Then stick to Tier 1 Doms. One of those would have snagged you Mandalore with no issue, but you took a risk, and now you must suffer the consequences of your gamble.

So, go cool off, figure out what you did wrong in your last Rebellion, and improve. You best do this quickly as you have another Rebellion currently on your hands. Also, you guys can back minor factions rebelling against your rivals, too. These mechanics are also available for you to use to put pressure on opposing major factions, just saying.