Fleeting: Why Don't You Like It?

[Darth Carnifex]

I remember when I fleeted.

At Roche.

I defended the flag.

 

[sabrina]

Like to know how much damage to take, and how much my opponent should take

 

[Allyson Locke]

I ask the community, if there was a guide written to help explain things would this make fleeting something more would venture into?

 

[Evad]

I like [member="Sarge Potteiger"]'s previous answer to this topic.

"Fleeting on the other hand is like playing space chess on a unicycle with four wheels stacked atop each other like gears, while a flamboyant Russian pop artist plays bad 80's music on a North Korean boombox." - Sarge

As for my issues with the subject at hand - it's something I cannot wrap my head around to visualize. Give me a person with two hands and two legs, and I can understand the mechanics and the movement. A small fighter I can figure out as well. But when you get several large fleet ships in the same thread and they are all doing things and stuff, I'm utterly lost. I'd need a diagram of constant position, and movement to know what the feth is going on.

Also, character wise, since I don't own a fleet or have the single desire to -ever- control one, I have no idea what my character would actually do except run around the ship like that fool you send for hot water in times of medical distress. To those who get it great...I'm just not one of you.

 

[Kenrath]

I voted other for the reasons listed below.


I had a character who's entire purpose was fleeting.

I had him deleted for the following reasons.

1. Nobody wanted to do any pre-invasion, pre-dominion fleeting. Trying to get something going was like trying to tame a rancor while wearing a suit made of Bantha Meat.

2. Dominion/Invasion Fleeting always seem to consist of a single created/brought back just for that one invasion Admiral tossing in a "random fleet" with no prior planning or coordination what so ever. Or even knowing said Admiral existed before their first post in the invasion. This made it difficult to know when or how to enter the scenes to make a what I like to call legitimate contribution.

3. Lack of Fleeting based objectives or victory conditions based on Fleeting in Invasions so far. It was basically treated as background noise for an invasion instead of part of the actual Invasion.


4. When I brought up points 1 through 3 I was told in no uncertain terms that I needed to get over it and that is just how Chaos is. It was further implicated that the opinion of Admins that coordination of any type in Chaos was an unintended side effect of Chaos not supported or encourage by the Admins.


[member="Spencer Jacobs"]

I would love to have such a guide made available. I would also love to say it may fix the lack of Fleeting here. However not to sound overly cynical but I fear the creation of such a thing would only serve as a waste of time for the person or peeple who create/post it.

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="KenRath"] I think a guide would help people understand the concept and hopefully make it not look so scary. I also am working on a Fleeting tournament; two brackets beginner and advanced. Should roll out around xmas if things stay on track. Look out for a poll for that one as well.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Spencer Jacobs"]
Just what I was thinking.

As far as I see it from the votes and comments so far, there are a few big things which stand out.

• A good proportion of people don't want to or just aren't interested in fleeting for various reasons. That's perfectly fine, I don't like PVP, so each to their own.

For those who might be interested but unsure how to do it or overwhelmed by the complexity...that's the audience we can try and change things for.

So I'm going to work with Spencer Jacobs to try and get things working smoother and do a guide.

Right now I see 3 big issues standing in the way of fleeting:

1. Fleet sizes or 'How to stop Apprentice Bob showing up with 5 command ships'.
2. How to actually do it or 'Do I really need 3 Excel sheets open for one post?!'
3. Ease of posting or 'Where am I on this 3D map again?'

All jokes aside, I see these as the big three issues. If anyone has any others I'll work them into this guide.

For traditional fleeters, things might change...but it's in the interest of making things better for all.

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"] I thought [member="Ayden Cater"] killed Apprentice Bob already? So that takes care of Number 1 . But yeah I completely agree with what you've stated above.

 

[Nyxie]

[member="KenRath"]
I know this sounds like a **** move but I've noticed (unintentionally) that jumping in open skirmishes and threads related to factions, representing the opponent of said faction or another via fleet, tends to kind of provoke a naval response from the other faction. Boom. There goes your pre-intra fleeting thread.

 

[Onrai]

Fleeting has become more and more meaningless to invasions, and in fact, faction-to-faction conflict as a whole, with the standardization of ship designs. Nearly all warships and starfighters are exactly the same - same weapon powers, armor, speed, and typically, features. They are basically the exact same thing, just in different shapes and colors. If fleeting turns into something so ridiculously tactical that people need to start searching through Lord Horatio Nelson's journal for advice on how to win, why do it?

Also would mark that most people don't know how to fleet - mainly since few people offer to train them how to.

 

[Nyxie]

Fleeting has become more and more meaningless to invasions, and in fact, faction-to-faction conflict as a whole, with the standardization of ship designs. Nearly all warships and starfighters are exactly the same - same weapon powers, armor, speed, and typically, features. They are basically the exact same thing, just in different shapes and colors. If fleeting turns into something so ridiculously tactical that people need to start searching through Lord Horatio Nelson's journal for advice on how to win, why do it?

Also would mark that most people don't know how to fleet - mainly since few people offer to train them how to.

I find that statement sort of self-contradicting. Standardization isn't killing fleeting, it's allowing more people to live it. One could argue the entire point of the standardization was to introduce more members to a once overtly tactical art.

 

[Kenrath]

[member="KenRath"]
I know this sounds like a **** move but I've noticed (unintentionally) that jumping in open skirmishes and threads related to factions, representing the opponent of said faction or another via fleet, tends to kind of provoke a naval response from the other faction. Boom. There goes your pre-intra fleeting thread.

It could be the hour but I am not quite following what you mean.

 

[Nyxie]

[member="KenRath"]
I'll use an example. I jumped in a skirmish once to support the opposing faction. They were lured there by a false, impersonating signal and so was I, ICly speaking. I arrived with ships, just to observe, maybe launch a few dropships in support. All of a sudden, I am being opposed by star destroyers - and I didn't even do anything but be present.

TL;DR: Throw a few stones at a few windows and you'll get a fleeting thread, guaranteed. People just need incentive. xD

 

[Valik]

Fleeting has become more and more meaningless to invasions, and in fact, faction-to-faction conflict as a whole, with the standardization of ship designs. Nearly all warships and starfighters are exactly the same - same weapon powers, armor, speed, and typically, features. They are basically the exact same thing, just in different shapes and colors. If fleeting turns into something so ridiculously tactical that people need to start searching through Lord Horatio Nelson's journal for advice on how to win, why do it?

Also would mark that most people don't know how to fleet - mainly since few people offer to train them how to.

With due respect, I don't see the argument for this at all. "Fleeting" as I personally define it in RP is the act of commanding a fleet of ships in a strategic manner in order to achieve some sort of goal against another RPer, usually defending a planet or destroying the fleet in front of you. In that sense fleeting is a purely strategic event. Sure the ships the two nations use might not be exceedingly different to one another or be built to filter into differing strategies, but that doesn't mean it's no longer a battle of wits. Every chess player works with the same pieces but that doesn't mean cunning or strategy are cast to the wind. And as I see it*Or at the least remember it) "Fleeting" has quite a bit more leeway for variation than chess. You have three dimensional and changing maps, you have length caps rather than pre-decided pieces, you have the option to specialize ships of the same class to serve differing functions by making a ship a carrier or a gunship or a missile boat. Then you add in other factors a bit more esoteric than simple length and gun counts and you get things like Interdiction, Shieldships, Cyberwarfare Ships, etc. "Fleeting", at least to me, is not the act of building your ships to be better or even different than what your opponent has, but utilizing what you have in the most effective way possible. Sure, stopping arms races and forcing a more standardized system does limit what tools you can bring to your disposal a bit, but it doesn't mean that you've been told you can only use pawns, knights and rooks. All it means is that you need to learn to utilize more than gun counts in what you build and how you use it.

 

[Hal Terrano]

I prefer to focus upon my character.

For a fleeting experience, I rely upon my good friend:

 

[Zatten Black]

I have fun fleeting, but I always have trouble keeping track of which characters are fleeting in invasions. The last time I really fleeted was the OS/Mando fight at Teta, and that was a steaming wreck. It's not like there should be a separate fleeting thread for each invasion, more like people within the fleeting matches need to be pointed out a lot earlier.

Also, maybe there should be ship size restrictions, but not actually restrictions on specific ships. I actually got reported, I think, because I was using a custom frigate. There shouldn't be an actual restriction against personal ships. I don't know why there was, in that instance.

 

[Nyxie]

I developed Alachei just fine AND was simultaneously queen of a galactic power and admiral of one navy and one fleet on two separate occasions. In fact, my alchemist girl character has even fleeted for a couple of threads! There should be no confusion that one can still develop their character and try out new things such as fleeting once in a blue moon. Anyone can rise to a call of duty. If anything, it only serves to broaden those horizons; that's about as developmental as it gets, literally.

I understand that it's not for everyone though, and I respect that.

I couldn't see Aynea being a fleeter (even though I kinda had to once) but that's primarily because she's a ditz.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

I like fleeting. Well, I like reading it and believe it should play a bigger role in invasions/skirmishes. Even if this interferes with me chucking asteroids for the lulz. :d


It's just not something I participate in because firstly I'd be no good at writing it and secondly it's not something that suits any of my chars! No one in their right frame of mind would give Sio a fleet...lest she end up trying to ram enemy ships.

 

[Kenrath]

[member=KenRath]
I'll use an example. I jumped in a skirmish once to support the opposing faction. They were lured there by a false, impersonating signal and so was I, ICly speaking. I arrived with ships, just to observe, maybe launch a few dropships in support. All of a sudden, I am being opposed by star destroyers - and I didn't even do anything but be present.

TL;DR: Throw a few stones at a few windows and you'll get a fleeting thread, guaranteed. People just need incentive. xD

Ah I got you. I had already abandoned my Fleeter when an opportunity like that had come up. I don't think any of my current characters but maybe Sarkin Vance would be a decent much less good Fleeter.

 

[Preliat Mantis]

i came here to smash and slash not to calculate and to be tactical