I Will Be The Last Factory Administrator

[Itash Mecetti]

In line with this I'd suggest removing the restricted material list entirely.

I know that it was made to regulate and limit the amount of canon stuff that could potentially cause issues in the RP, but the problem is that it is almost never the canon stuff that causes those issues. Its the writers using them and let's be real here. If a writer wants to power-game, abuse the RP, etc, they will do that with or without that shiny 'overpowered' canon material. Considering the writer gets to decide if they take a hit or not, if their character dies or not, it doesn't really matter if they have beskar-impervium-phrik class 10 armor with every rating at extreme.

Because if they don't want to take a hit, they won't take it even if they aren't wearing any armor at all.

Same goes for overpowered weapons or whatever. The other side gets to determine their hits anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

All the restricted materials do... is exactly that. Restrict things.

Chaos at large has gone through many cycles where things have been eased; ranks, dev thread removal, things like that. I think this would be very compatible with the framework currently being discussed for the Factory's future.

 

[Thurion Heavenshield]

I like it.

 

[Errreembuhr]

[member="Itash Mecetti"] I disagree here. I don't see things like beskar, phrik etc. being restricted as reasoned by them being OP. There are plenty of ways to kill someone wearing beskar or whatever other material. But them being restricted to me makes sense at least story-wise because these materials almost in their entirety are in canon considered very rare or difficult to get ahold of even for wealthy organizations, let alone your average spacer scum. While it is restricting, it feels to me that it makes sense and keeps people story-wise at least to rules established by canon. I'd very much like to see that kept, just my 2 cents.

Another thing I'd like to see kept is the banned list, though maybe with a rework. It's easy to say "well if you can have xyz OP thing why have a banned list?" but some of the more powerful things I've seen on Chaos were powerful because the writers put in a ton of effort and research to make them work and balance them out. If just any bum can throw a Malevolence style ion pulse cannon onto a ship off the bat and wipe out entire fleets in one go, or slap nukes on fighters and make whole sections of planets irradiated beyond repair, it kinda takes away from people who put effort into making cool stuff. Not sure if I'm alone on that one, but I feel like these restrictions make things fun by forcing people to actually put effort and think.

 

[Not Ordo]

Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

 

[Decious]

This is where the fun begins...

 

[Darth Empyrean]

I'm very for auto approvals and streamlining the process for both Factory Judges and RPJ's respectfully, though I have some concerns.

First and foremost, community moderation. What constitutes balance for many writers varies, most notably amongst people with a bunch of 'Combat RP' experience and those who don't, and I can't help but worry that players with a less 'Oh, well I'm not taking that hit' will look at things as almost unavoidable, even against strong things. I think you're a proponent of that, facing a literal Nuke in a thread and you said 'oh, yeah it was deactivated', which is totally reasonable all things considered, but when less imaginative players face something like that down against something that could viable be considered vaguely overpowered, at what point does the factory say something is 'frivolous' reporting, and reasonable?

Second, a bit more personal, while I think something is balanced when I submit it, others certainly may not agree. As the idea goes, every submissions I've put through the factory to date are balanced, that same rhetoric repeated by RPJ's and Factory Judges, but anybody and their mother could look on them and say 'Yeah, thats broken', something else you've said to me personally. Much of my goal in writing these is to make things that are sought after, things people look at and think 'Hey, I want that.'; because they're imposing, or on par with canon items in some way, but if I have multiple submissions people just disagree with on balancing and the rhetoric that they're overpowered, and say they're all reported, whats stopping the factory from simply banning me from the area all together?

With a turn towards reports over balance by the few, there is a certain attitude change I could imagine coming with this. If everyone believes themselves to be the foremost expert on what is balanced and what isn't, reporting someone that makes things like I do (And I'm not the only one) could viably remove them from the factory as a whole for not breaking rules per say, but just writing things that would be imposing or terrifying to face.

That's my concern at least. What would the factory be doing to stop 'strong' submissions from destroying a workshop's ability to make great gear without facing the reports of anyone who thinks it unreasonable, or would the bans and punishments be meant exclusively for those that actually break the rules of the factory instead of just 'strong' submissions?

 

[Unblessed]

Trust the community. This is a relatively new form of social interaction but many of the same rules still apply. If the kiddies here don't know how to play nicely with the pretend toys, then the other kiddies wil not play with them. It is hard to play this game by yourself.

 

[WolfMortum]

Second, a bit more personal, while I think something is balanced when I submit it, others certainly may not agree. As the idea goes, every submissions I've put through the factory to date are balanced, that same rhetoric repeated by RPJ's and Factory Judges, but anybody and their mother could look on them and say 'Yeah, thats broken', something else you've said to me personally. Much of my goal in writing these is to make things that are sought after, things people look at and think 'Hey, I want that.'; because they're imposing, or on par with canon items in some way, but if I have multiple submissions people just disagree with on balancing and the rhetoric that they're overpowered, and say they're all reported, whats stopping the factory from simply banning me from the area all together?

I can relate to this, as I'm sure many others may too. While I do love seeing my submissions get approved, every time they are almost feels like an achievement because much of the time I'm uncertain as to whether or not my subs are considered to be balanced for Chaos' standards. By no means am I a vet at submissions, I certainly question myself a lot while writing them so I'm feeling a little anxiety around the prospect of there potentially being no/little discussion as to why they might get denied.

Though I've had very few actually get to the point of being denied, many of my questions/mistakes have been made out of ignorance as opposed to intentional disregard for the Factory rules/standards. Without some sense of a feedback loop, I hope that the flaws in our subs will at-least be listed in the "denied" post so that we might be able to fix whatever was insufficient.

I'm looking forward to seeing these changes and I know you're still in the planning phase. This is simply a concern that's been on my mind.

 

[Eugen Aker]

[member="Tefka"]

In general, I like the idea of streamlining the process. Most of the items that pass through the Factory, particularly in the technology section, don't need formal submissions in the first place.

However, I think there should be the option for voluntary peer reviews by the Factory for official validation. This would help a lot in cases with items that are powerful and/or introduces a new element that may toe the line with conforming to the staff's ideas of what's fitting in a Star Wars settings. That way could preempt some headaches in threads and frivolous reporting in turn while still cutting down on the FJ's work to make it more manageable.

 

[Darth Empyrean]

he option for voluntary peer reviews by the Factory for official validation

I think making a fast lane for regular submissions, and a voluntary peer review for exceptional examples and reported material might be the best of both worlds. It would at least help lighten the work load, and ensure there isn't wild things going through; say by only requiring things with restricted materials or otherwise restricted things requiring approval, allowing for some 'quality control' of what gets through. I'd support that idea, and if it turns out to work amazing then there is always the chance of transitioning fully to the 'hands off' approach.

 

[Sor-Jan Xantha]

As someone who subs a lot of "flavor items" with no PVP application, I really like the suggestion from [member="Suravi Teigra"] with regard to the voluntary peer review.

The thing I like about the factory is the ability to clearly articular what something is and how it functions. Sure, there is a Wookieepedia article on Light-Shields, but it's very vague and non-specific. One thing I liked about subbing Kiriko's Light-Shield was that it was very clear on what the shield did, how it operated, what it couldn't do, etc. You won't get that from the Wookieepedia article.

But streamlining the process, while leaving room for peer review when appropriate or requested, seems like a very equitable proposal for all involved.

 

[Raiz]

I vote to keep it closed forever.

 

[Onrai]

If just any bum can throw a Malevolence style ion pulse cannon onto a ship off the bat and wipe out entire fleets in one go, or slap nukes on fighters and make whole sections of planets irradiated beyond repair, it kinda takes away from people who put effort into making cool stuff.

Which is why you then sub a new type of shielding capable of absorbing the wave of an ion pulse and fit it to all the ships in your faction, rendering the weapon useless. Or why you develop a method of separating traces of radioactive elements from the environment to clean up environments contaminated on a planet. That's how conflicts work - you either adapt and create new technologies to render your enemy's attempt at creating a special fleet-killer weapon unable to work, or you die. It's simple enough, and nothing in the factory even beforehand would have stopped someone from creating a method to deal with both situations you just described.

 

[Lirranne Isaris]

Which is why you then sub a new type of shielding capable of absorbing the wave of an ion pulse and fit it to all the ships in your faction, rendering the weapon useless. Or why you develop a method of separating traces of radioactive elements from the environment to clean up environments contaminated on a planet. That's how conflicts work - you either adapt and create new technologies to render your enemy's attempt at creating a special fleet-killer weapon unable to work, or you die. It's simple enough, and nothing in the factory even beforehand would have stopped someone from creating a method to deal with both situations you just described.

Or you know, report it, and don't get into a 'who has the most op tech' arms race, which is really a poor way to try and fight wars on a roleplay forum.

There's resolving IC conflicts ICly, and then there's stupid shit. No need to accept the dumb crap just because we're moving to a streamlined system. That's why god invented the report button.

 

[Vora Kaar]

[member="Lirranne Isaris"], You are missing the point of half of the factory. Everyone is making something bigger and badder than the last item for the sake of the war, and for the sake of making something that can over come your enemies. Its used in real life, and it is very much still valid here. Yes, of course you can play the story of John Henry, but if everyone was to play that story, it would get super old, super quick.

[member="Darth Maliphant"] here makes items that are powerful, but balanced. The reason for the factory is to expose those balances to the players so that they can fight back. If there is technology that has little to no downsides of using it, such as Celestial tech, or Quantium-crystaline Armor, then it is banned or restricted.

Since you mentioned god in your statement, I will do so as well. If he created the report button, then you forgot that he also stated. "Everything in moderation."

 

[Lirranne Isaris]

Lirranne Isaris, You are missing the point of half of the factory. Everyone is making something bigger and badder than the last item for the sake of the war, and for the sake of making something that can over come your enemies. Its used in real life, and it is very much still valid here. Yes, of course you can play the story of John Henry, but if everyone was to play that story, it would get super old, super quick.

Perhaps. But I've also been there and done all that. In my experience most of the time said arms races aren't reflected in in-character roleplay, it's just one OOC sub after another, and you just end up diminishing or normalizing the effect of what should be cool or rare technology.

I think the issue here is the initial comment is referring to obviously overpowered superweapon level tech that should simply be balanced OOC. Having an IC arms race about communications jamming and anti-jamming systems is fairly far removed from having one with Ion Pulse Cannon superweapons and anti-IPC shields. The Factory shouldn't just let the latter example happen, because that sort of technology is supposed to be rare and unusually powerful, and if you end up with bastardized IPC's on every frigate it just turns them into the new 'standard.' Like Beskar armor or HVC's or HIMS.

 

[Tefka]

Bad writers don't balance their subs. Bad writers think they can tip the scales in cooperative play-by-post threads with their subs. Bad writers min and max as much as possible until they feel they are "winning."

The only thing they win will be salty attitudes between themselves and other bad writers.

...The rest of us have fun and invasions will continued to be judged with tech subs barely causing a blip on how our systems of pvp are won.

 

[Mythos]

So... still no Hypergates [member="Tefka"]?

 

[Noah Corek]

Correct.

If your submission does not get pulled for review or denied, you may use it in RP once you're done creating it, not once you get done talking to an FJ for two weeks.

[member="Tefka"]

ALL HAIL OUR GOD TEF!

For real though the process to get it approved kinda always irked me but because that was the way it went I well went with it.

 

[Ugohr Poof]

What would these changes imply for modifying older submissions that do not involve companies, workshops or archiving subs?