Jedi order talk

[Alexander Sannes]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

As a former FA for the Vitae, i can promise you its not the idea of a FU order that is completely new and not canon that would do us in as a faction. It will be losing that hope or drive as that faction. We are the Republic, we are not defined by whether we have Jedi or not. We are defined by upholding what is considered freedom and what is right. We should be setting a example of being the ones to defuse situations, not make them worse... which if i may speak freely... we are absolutely poodoo at that lately IC and OOC.

My point is, you as a FO and as one of the Master level force users have the opportunity to separate yourself and the others that support the republic to create something that stands for what the Republic stands for. Not a Jedi order that Allies with the Republic, but rather a force order that stands with the Republic as bastions of its ideals just as the senate should be. That is what this talk should be about, not creating a new jedi order that in a year will split again... if not sooner.

 

[Alexander Sannes]

Double post

 

[Kay-Larr]

If there are Jedi that want to create their own faction, then I don't see what's wrong with that. Think it'll confuse the members? What about all of the different businesses and other factions that are similar to eachother? I haven't heard of them confusing people. We shouldn't tell people whether or not could create their own faction. That's just not fair. No one is forcing anyone to be a part of it either. I say to let them do it. Let writers choose for themselves as to what they want to do. We shouldn't restrict their creativity. I do miss the Jedi being on hand during diplomatic missions and the like.

 

[Jacen Voidstalker]

If you make an enclave, don't forget to add it here:

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/47652-the-jedi-houses-and-satellite-academies/

 

[Mantic Dorn]

I believe the formation of another Jedi Order would not make sense at this time. We do not have the Jedi to form it and the current climate of the Galactic Republic does not warrant a Jedi Order to serve as it's military branch, which was the role that the Jedi took up as the One Sith invaded.

I do think that it makes sense for the Jedi, who still wish to serve the Republic in some capacity, form an enclave to train, teach and call home. I believe Ahch-To would be the perfect world to do this. Whilst it isn't Tython, it is on the same level as Ossus and would be perfect to form an enclave in.

[member="Mantic Dorn"] could fulfill the capacity of Jedi Master of the Ahch-To Enclave and I would be more than happy to step in when needed. I've been wanting to write and peruse a story about finding Ahch-To since the Force Awakens was released. I wanted to do it with my Padawan. Perhaps this could be the beginning of the formation of this enclave?

Forming a Jedi Enclave wouldn't alienate the Jedi in the GA or Silver Sanctum, as an enclave is not the Jedi Order. But it helps begin the healing process of the void left behind by the Jedi that did leave to form and/or join Alliance or Sanctum.

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

As a former FA for the Vitae, i can promise you its not the idea of a FU order that is completely new and not canon that would do us in as a faction. It will be losing that hope or drive as that faction. We are the Republic, we are not defined by whether we have Jedi or not. We are defined by upholding what is considered freedom and what is right. We should be setting a example of being the ones to defuse situations, not make them worse... which if i may speak freely... we are absolutely poodoo at that lately IC and OOC.

My point is, you as a FO and as one of the Master level force users have the opportunity to separate yourself and the others that support the republic to create something that stands for what the Republic stands for. Not a Jedi order that Allies with the Republic, but rather a force order that stands with the Republic as bastions of its ideals just as the senate should be. That is what this talk should be about, not creating a new jedi order that in a year will split again... if not sooner.

My mind is spinning a bit here but maybe we can do both.
Perhaps the GR is ready for a new type of Force user order tied in direct service the Republic. With science department and war department, and with a direct link to the GR minister of mysterious things (I am pretty sure [member="Jack Sparrow"] would love to hand out such a title ))

And then I would definately be open to lead an Enclave with clear ties to the Republic but not an order of it self but rather a location where jedi who most likely have a strong will to actively become protectors of democracy will go. Something like that.

[member="Ella Nova"] - I am game.

If you make an enclave, don't forget to add it here:

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/47652-the-jedi-houses-and-satellite-academies/

Absolutely! (awesome descriptions btw).

 

[Eugen Aker]

[member="Turin Val Kur"] TJO is going GA. Even though ICily, no one had a chance to respond to the events.

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

1. Certain archetypes are generally more appealing to play depending on the environment. I mean, your character is a Jedi Master after all. It's now a reality that FUs in the Republic can serve in just about any capacity in government, so I would like a training house for those folks who don't want to segregate themselves with the Jedi.

2. My first experience with the Jedi here ICIily was seeing the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order effectively derail a major military operation while colluding with a Sith Lord who was fighting Republic soldiers. Then that was followed by TJO jumping ship to the GA without ever giving the new Republic administration a chance to respond to the events of Roche. As I see it, the Jedi are not reliable. It's nice that you and a few other Jedi still support the Republic, but I view you all as an exception. ICIily, I can't see the government supporting the rise of another order after recent events. I agree with [member="Ella Nova"] that the best route to take is creating an enclave.

3. This is how it would work. Force Sensitives receive formal instruction on how to control their powers (and NFUs can come to learn how to counter FUs) in an institution structured like a magnet school. They then go on living their lives within the GR doing whatever. There would also be a military offshoot specializing in combat and surveillance techniques for FUs in the military. FU soldiers aren't given any special preference but are assigned according to their competency in general. So there could be special FU units and mixed units. Similar to how the Mandalorians seem to employ their FUs.

I see part of being a Jedi as accepting a certain lifestyle that puts them at odds with the rest of society. From what I've witnessed, I think it's fair to say that the Jedi loyalties fall with their own over everyone else, which is why I'm proposing a school to help promote cohesion between FUs and NFUs.

I'll finish working on my proposal, and present it ICily to the Senate.

 

[Gael bar Ammon]

I'm unfamiliar with the situation as a whole but I think I have a good enough grasp where I could offer another input.

Why establish a new order of Jedi? We have the Armed Forces of the Republic which appear to cover both the Army and Navy. In the Clone Wars, Jedi were used as military commanders. I see no reason we couldn't implement a similar system here.

At the very least, we could create a smaller component of the Republic Armed Forces - a Jedi Corps. Because of their ability to wield the Force, I'd think it best to grant them some autonomy in the government of the Republic. Rather than having Force-wielding senators left and right, have a delegation of the Jedi Corps represent their interests in the Senate. They'd be a senator in pretty much every way but name. It may not be the most 'equal' thing OOC, but it makes total sense IC.

Otherwise, the enclave idea as stated above is something I can get behind.

What do we want to offer Force users in the Republic? A place to call home? A way to get actively involved? Are they third party peacekeepers the Republic is sympathetic to or dedicated defenders of the Republic?
What do we want to get out of creating a new Jedi (sub)faction?

 

[Matthew Rei]

like Xavier's school from X-men

I'm not sure anything here on SWRP could be as cool as Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters...

#MutantsAre2Cool

 

[Khyros Sunblade]

As the FU's of the Republic should be seekers of diplomacy and truth, we should place the new FU's under the Justice Ministry. Make them more akin to an FBI or US Marshals program than either a separate order or a part of the War department.

 

[Eugen Aker]

[member="Gael bar Ammon"] I'd like FUs to take greater part in the government, but I think it's a bad idea to give them special status as a separate body.

[member="Matthew Mar'Tin"] We can try.

 

[Gael bar Ammon]

[member="Suravi Teigra"] I have a few concerns with that sentiment. While we of course want FUs go get involved, they already have the advantage OOC and IC in terms of numbers and abilities. We have to have some incentive to create NFUs, in this instance, representation in government. It'd be foolish to deny an entire group of people based on the ability to wield the Force though, which is why I suggest some representation.

I'd like to think that if I was a Force-wielding senator, it creates a lot of gray areas. What if I wanted to subtly kill someone over a disagreement? What if I had a poor temperament and decided I wanted to do nothing but wreck havoc, kill a few Senators, maybe the Chancellor? I mean, I'd have everyone there in one place to do so. Furthermore, how long would it take for the majority of Senators to become FUs because people want to be combat-effective, 'just in case'?

Sure it's a lot of what ifs and speculation, but it and it's unintended consequences are something we need to consider in moving forward.

 

[Darth Ayra]

[member="Gael bar Ammon"]

Whilst I see that your suggestion for the Jedi, that still serve the Republic, becomes a corp in the Republic military came from a good place, I have to remind you and everyone that initially agreed with the idea that the Jedi are not soldiers.

Whilst we have been trained for combat and it is true that we have fulfilled the capacity of General and other positions in the Republic military, we have done this in the interest of ending conflicts and preserving the peace.

I agree with whoever it was (sorry bad memory) that said that the stance of the Republic should be about resolving conflicts and ending wars and that it has been very bad at doing this, both IC and OOC. I think this ties into any ideas of the Jedi, left over from the TJO leaving, ever taking any position in the military.

 

[Khyros Sunblade]

[member="Gael bar Ammon"]

To your point on having everyone in place, I am in the process of procuring a number of Ysalamir from an independent supplier to set up the Senate building with protection from Force Abilities and as a preserve for the Ysalamir themselves.

 

[Gael bar Ammon]

[member="Ella Nova"]

Isn't that kind of a contradiction? If the stance of the Republic is resolving conflicts and ending wars, wouldn't the military of the Republic then largely serve as a peacekeeping force? Real militaries serve humanitarian and relief functions as well as warfighting, so I'd imagine the Republic's would be similar as it fits in well with our overall mission.

I can hardly envision the proposed Jedi Corps ever serving warfighting functions of the Republic on it's own. They'd likely serve as augmentees to the Army or Navy, to serve in a capacity as appropriate for the task at hand, whether it's helping a planet after an invasion or natural disaster or leading the charge in a battle to 'preserve the peace'.

Si vis pacem, para bellum - no?

 

[Eugen Aker]

[member="Gael bar Ammon"] The Senate will be packed with Ysalmari soon. One of my ideas to put NFUs and FUs on equal footing, so that we wouldn't have any force wielding shenanigans. Otherwise, what stops any reasonable person from going on a murder spree are laws in place that punish them for said actions, and the fear of reprisal. Right now, we actually don't have any countermeasures in place to stop a rampaging FU, and we have several in office right now, but none of us have tried anything to my knowledge. It's not like the FUs in now office march in lockstep with each other. We all have our own interests and priorities as individuals and politicians. So, we will naturally counteract each other. If you see FUs act in practice ICily, they're always about the concerns of their electorate, which usually consists of mostly NFUs. However, if you're paranoid about FUs, then you can strap a Ysalmari to your back, or start blinging with anti-force gear.

The determination for advancement for an FU should be based on their competency, not their powers. The ability to twirl around a lightstaber or lift a boulder with your mind doesn't automatically qualify you for a position of command or governance. Having powers doesn't even qualify you to become a Jedi.

[member="Khyros Sunblade"] I think FUs should be free to do what they want, as long as they exercise their abilities responsibly in accordance with Republic law. I don't think they need to be cordoned off in their own group, but should be able to participate in preexisting institutions of their choosing. I think the Republic loses out segregating FUs.

 

[Khyros Sunblade]

[member="Suravi Teigra"]

I can get behind that idea.

 

[Alexander Sannes]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

Full honesty, i do not believe two force orders in the republic, even if one is a small Jedi enclave would help at all. Infact i believe it would hurt the republic more but im not the one in charge so maybe im just overthinking it.

I believe that one group, devoted to the Republic alone would be the best idea, but i know the Jedi that remained with us will probably not agree with such a thing, so its a bit hard to really be sure whats to be done in the end.

Interested none the less on how this ends.

 

[Darth Ayra]

[member="Gael bar Ammon"]

Not every situation is the same.

The Jedi Order became the main military force for the Galactic Republic because of the One Sith. The Jedi were acutely aware that the Sith couldn't be reasoned with and that in the best interests of protecting the Republic and the larger Galaxy, we would have to go to war with them on behalf of the Republic. But obviously this failed because the One Sith won all of their battles except one and our one victory over them didn't mean anything because the map was changed by the Netherworld event.

But the circumstances have changed. TJO has left the Republic, with most of them joining the Alliance or the Silver Sanctum. And our aggressors are different this time. Mandalorians can be reasoned with. Their attacks, however unacceptable they were, came from an understandable position. Our Prime Minister attempted to nationalize a rare resource, owned by one of their corporations and out of that attempt, a Jedi with Mandalorian heritage died, as well as several civilians.

At this moment in time, the Jedi left over in the Republic will try to do their best to resolve the issue diplomatically. But us being drafted into a corps for the Republic military? Or being assigned positions in the military once more? This only aggravates the situation, not solve it. It tells the Mandalorians that we are preparing for war, not trying to avoid one.

The wrong questions are being asked; and the wrong suggestions are being suggested. Whilst it is a tense time, it is by no means war time. I do not speak for [member="Mantic Dorn"], who is the go too figure for the Republic Jedi, but I feel that at this time, we are not prepared to rejoin the Republic military because of the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Khyros Sunblade]

[member="Gael bar Ammon"]

Not every situation is the same.

The Jedi Order became the main military force for the Galactic Republic because of the One Sith. The Jedi were acutely aware that the Sith couldn't be reasoned with and that in the best interests of protecting the Republic and the larger Galaxy, we would have to go to war with them on behalf of the Republic. But obviously this failed because the One Sith won all of their battles except one and our one victory over them didn't mean anything because the map was changed by the Netherworld event.

But the circumstances have changed. TJO has left the Republic, with most of them joining the Alliance or the Silver Sanctum. And our aggressors are different this time. Mandalorians can be reasoned with. Their attacks, however unacceptable they were, came from an understandable position. Our Prime Minister attempted to nationalize a rare resource, owned by one of their corporations and out of that attempt, a Jedi with Mandalorian heritage died, as well as several civilians.

At this moment in time, the Jedi left over in the Republic will try to do their best to resolve the issue diplomatically. But us being drafted into a corps for the Republic military? Or being assigned positions in the military once more? This only aggravates the situation, not solve it. It tells the Mandalorians that we are preparing for war, not trying to avoid one.

The wrong questions are being asked; and the wrong suggestions are being suggested. Whilst it is a tense time, it is by no means war time. I do not speak for [member="Mantic Dorn"], who is the go too figure for the Republic Jedi, but I feel that at this time, we are not prepared to rejoin the Republic military because of the aforementioned reasons.

While war is one of the mainstays of this board, the Republic needs to rebuild after the disasters of the last regime. We've withstood a full IRL year of aggression from the One Sith and it took a morale toll on the writers here, to the point where some left and started the GA. The GA has been successful, and we should support them as allies, but we should not be them.

We are starting the rebuilding process, doing dominions where diplomacy and peace are the topics rather than domination. We are open handedly dealing with the Mandalorians saying "Here are the cards we are playing with, we want peace."

We need the FU's of the Republic to be akin to this, preferring peace to war, talking to fighting, and willing to defend the cause of Democracy.

I'd support the formation of an enclave of Jedi in the Republic, I believe that making them an international organization is for the best. In canon, there were rarely ever this many major factions, so having the Jedi bound to the Republic made sense. We now have three major Light sided factions, so sequestering the Jedi to one or another is out of the question and creates schisms.

If other FUs in the Republic wish to open a training center designed to teach the force in a less Jedi way, focusing on the techniques rather than the philosophy, then I support that as well.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

I am ambivalent now....

But the two solution system seem to hold most credibility. The FUs that dont like jedi-style could build a training center. As I understand a center for Republic citizens who are force sensitive but wont go to an order. These can become senators or soldiers or whatnot but their training ensures that they are light sided. A sort of quality mark from the Republic to not be overrun by dark siders.

Then have a Jedi enclave of Republic Jedi for those who perhaps hold the classical jedi role and cant go about and become something else then jedi without leaving the enclave.

Or we skip the jedi order and only have the FU school. But that would leave the jedi as unorganized in the Republic, strolling about without a clear role.

Would it be possible that jedi oversaw the FU school, making sure that the light side is followed but not there to teach the jedi code so to speak?