"let the whole community know whats going on"

[Sanya Val Lerium]

This is going to be one of those doom and gloom posts but it serves a real purpose. Recently some of the members of my faction and myself have been going through a lot of stress and drama due to other members on the site (I won't name any of them out of fairness but they know who they are) but these people have been so contempt on winning and been the dominant people on the board that they disguise their intent through IC actions through OOC knowledge. This is metagaming in it's ugliest form. Again no names will be mentioned, but a certain faction is using a memory from a shared alt to form a basis for an invasion.

Admins from both sides have been in talks regarding this, and despite the fact they are supporting this memory, it in know way makes sense considering there is never been any interaction between the two factions prior to their proposed invasion. No skirmishes, no bumping into one another, no spilled drinks on someone's fancy clothes; just war. Again, without prior interaction, how would one faction know another faction exists close by. Chaos map? I'm under the belief the map is for OOC planning, not IC planning when it comes to invasions.

Attempts where made to force their ideas onto others in threads with members who have expressed a desire to not participate with them, yet refuse to compromise; and when they do, they manipulate the compromise or out right ignore it; mocking others who stick to the agreement. We all came here because everyone on Chaos enjoys writing, Star Wars, and/or meeting new people. Not to be harassed or worse, having people sent into chats posing as friends only to turn out to be spies for another faction, using that to fuel their IC plans. Has the fairness of humanity fallen that far?

The definition of fun, just as bullying, varies from one person to the next. However, it has become apparent that these certain individuals have gotten their way for so long that when they crashed upon a group of people that can't be made to accept their version of "this is how's it going to be with or without your participation" it is met with hostility or worse, complaints made against them ignored by their friends on staff. Not all staff, certain ones.

I know this isn't going to go over well, which I have already long suspected that the truth will hurt. Their friends higher up the food chain, along with themselves, will provide their first actions to spin and twist it so no matter what it looks like, people who want to enjoy their fun here and escapism from real life are being unreasonable or just wrong; flat-out wrong. Or they will provide countless excuses to defend themselves, whilst lobbying for support to get others to agree with them. Then cast them aside when the purpose of needing them as been exhausted.

We've all seen some form of 'controlling actions' done when members didn't share their vision for a faction from votes to replace them barely a week after they got into a leadership position to just large topics showing how factions are dictatorships. Or through hypocrisy; claiming innocence when they become offended yet guilty of the same actions when offending others. Most will claim that haven't seen it, not until it directly involves them. History is riddled with such human errors based on the logic of "just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's non-existent."

I come into this fully expecting it to be ignored, or spun to another's perspective so that they and their friends can have more laughs at the expense of people, while boasting to be pillars of the Chaos community. I also come into this fully expecting comments to be made from individuals claiming I'm paranoid to simple immaturity. Again, history is riddled with such human errors based on the logic of "if it's not happening to me then why should I care if it happens to others."

Harassment and cyber bullying with a healthy dose of spin so it becomes acceptable or even protected by certain admins is not acceptable. I urge those who have suffered the same thing to come forward. Only through a combined voice can the issues be addressed. Do not let fear or potential backlashes sway you from speaking up. Abuse of power is abuse of power.

I asked one of the hire ups of the site of how to go about this. This is the part of the discussion.


Me:
Okay also you have rp'd and done this longer. How do I go about rev and the ga.it's not just me but quite a lot in there. Even a new member to the forms said it's fucked up his words

Tefka:
Post a thread about it on the forum and let the whole community know whats going on.

Me:
Okay

Tefka:
That’s what I’d do, at least.

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

This is where I honestly feel the need to roll my eyes and assert that, frankly, it's things like this which take the fun out of writing. The fact that there are things going on behind the scenes and that people make such a big deal of it is, frankly, the sort of thing I see every day outside the classroom, happening on the schoolyard. Who cares what Faction 'wins', or has the most members, or asserts the most power on the forum? Does it make absolutely any real difference? Nope.

Cliques and groups set on the idea of doing x, y and z are everywhere on internet forums - that's nothing new. Where you get yourself into problems is when you start letting it affect how you RP. And that's what you're doing right now, Sanya. What makes it into a big thing? People acting like it is. Me? I could care less. I have no problem with people RPing with only certain people, no issue with one group making a bid to monopolise the Galaxy Map, and no problem with any Faction trying to outdo or even eliminate others.

And why? Because it's Roleplay.

As for the metagaming aspect...that's against the rules. If you have evidence of it being done, and can prove it, take it to the Admins and let them handle it. If not...bide your time and find some.

But let's not take things too seriously here. We're here to have fun. If you let other people spoil that for you, you're just as much part of the problem as they are. Don't pour fuel on a fire that otherwise wouldn't burn.

 

[Arage Bao]

[member="Cynthia Garon"]

Becoming a major faction is declaring to the board that you are ready to deal with any invasions that might happen. It's the one threat Major Factions always face. The COTBR should have made sure they were ready, before putting in a request for the MF-status.

That might not be what you want to hear, but that's the breaks. Every MF can be invaded at any time and it cannot be denied.

So you are currently at a crossroads.

Are you going to try and make this an interesting and above positive writing environment for everyone, as is your duty as the Faction Owner or are you going to make it negative experience for everyone?

This is what I replied to one of your members in a different thread. After reading all of that... this is still my reply to your message, because at the end of the day the moment you sign up to being a Major Faction, you sign up to being invaded at some point. That is the point of Major Factions, that is one downside to a whole list of advantages they get.

 

[Subject 37]

Without commenting on anything else in this thread I'm going to give my opinion on this map aspect of people not knowing where anyone is because it bugs me and has come up before.

When you become a Major Faction and take over planets you become a government(unless its specificially stated youre not). Governments take taxes, build armies, infrastructure, etc. Governments cannot hide. They have a noticeable effect on peoples lives, and people talk, like a lot. In Africa when a new government pops up people tend to notice within days, whether they are legitimate or not.

Trying to say you can hide where you are as a major faction would also mean your faction is entirely invalidated as a centralized government because it would mean the planets you own wouldnt actually be owned by you. After all if your faction is hidden how would the people of those planets know you exist?

 

[Seraphina Shel'tah]

This thread is going to head down a dark road.

 

[Via Dolorosa]

Kicks back and eats popcorn


having people sent into chats posing as friends only to turn out to be spies for another faction, using that to fuel their IC plans. Has the fairness of humanity fallen that far?

^ that's my favourite line ^

 

[Popo]

I can see both sides to an extent, but the thing is that as soon as you're on the map, you're a target. Major Factions operate in a figurative warzone at all times. You are constantly at risk of invasion at all times and there's not a lot you can do about it. Once you go major, you can't just tell another major faction to take a hike when they want to interact via invasion, even if the pretenses of an invasion are ridiculous or non-existent. Hell, cases in RL history show that sometimes countries invaded each other over no actual cause except one wanted something the other had.

If its ooc harassment, that's a staff issue and you should go to staff. If its a metagame issue, that's also a staff issue and should go to staff. If its an issue over one faction thinking it shouldn't be a target for invasions because they haven't done anything, that isn't gonna fly.

Ask Poland or Belgium if they felt they picked a fight with Germany. Same sort of situation, really.

 

[Caulder Dune]

using that to fuel their IC plans

• The Order of the Black Rose is composed mostly of separatist Sith and some Dark Jedi. This would cause suspicion.
• The Grand Lady of the Order of the Black Rose is a former Sith and probably now a Dark Jedi. This would cause suspicion.
• The Order of the Black Rose explicitly sanctioned the genocide of an entire planet, turning a majority of the population into Sithspawn and leaving a minority alive explicitly for breeding purposes. This confirms suspicions.

No one needs anything from your Skype chat to justify a military campaign against a genocidal government led by insane Dark Siders.

 

[Via Dolorosa]

[member="Darth Adekos"]

No one needs anything from your Skype chat to justify a military campaign against a genocidal government led by confirmed Dark Jedi.

Interesting....nobody mentioned anything about Skype, mate.

There are more than one chat site than just Skype....so quick to pick out that one, lucky guess.....nope.

 

[Sanya Val Lerium]

[member="Darth Adekos"]

The Grand Lady of the Order of the Black Rose is a former Sith and probably now a Dark Jedi. This would cause suspicion.

Dose my tags say dark Jedi?

The Order of the Black Rose explicitly sanctioned the genocide of an entire planet, turning a majority of the population into Sithspawn and leaving a minority alive explicitly for breeding purposes. This confirms suspicions.

Actually those who attacked us (first) got turned into sithspawn, that may I state technical didn't happen yet till the dev is finished therefor all the people are normal. (Kinda strange but it's what it is)

 

[Natasi Fortan]

Attempts where made to force their ideas onto others in threads with members who have expressed a desire to not participate with them, yet refuse to compromise; and when they do, they manipulate the compromise or out right ignore it; mocking others who stick to the agreement. We all came here because everyone on Chaos enjoys writing, Star Wars, and/or meeting new people.

There's nothing to be done about it. The best thing to do is not engage, as much as you can get away with it. I know that sucks, but trying to establish a respectful and fair writing environment is never going to happen with these people. They will do anything it takes to win, because fuck everyone else. We all know it's true, whether we care to admit it or not, so why waste your time? Never rely on an agreement, never believe their assurances, never assume you are being dealt with in an above-board fashion. It won't be easy, or fun, but that's the environment that has been created.

 

[Allyson Locke]

having people sent into chats posing as friends only to turn out to be spies for another faction, using that to fuel their IC plans. Has the fairness of humanity fallen that far?

I think Skype is the predominate use of communication for the board (that I know of), so the original post mentioned chats and its a safe assumption (I think and I did it too) that Skype was the chat the OP was referring too. Just minor details to the post at large though - should take it all in and not focus on little things...there's a lot being said.

[member="Xhexania"] [member="Darth Adekos"]

 

[Via Dolorosa]

I think everyone is hung up on the invasion aspect and bringing in knowledge they are unaware of.

I think the pointe of this is being sorely missed by what Sanya posted. Nobody cares about the rules of Major Factions....we are all aware of them. She is concerned how they came about it....a memory from someone who told them basically go after the Black Rose. If the GA had came to us with a more feasible and understanding cause for an invasion....I would be glad to write with any of them in such a thread. But all attempts to speak to them has done nothing but caused bad blood between both sides. Personally, all I care about is writing and having fun.

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="Xhexania"]

Like what [member="Popo"] said. Even in actual history there are really lame reasons for people to invade other countries. Most of the time its because the invader wanted what the invadee had. War doesn't always have to make sense sadly.

 

[Onrai]

How long has Sanya's faction been around as a major? If it hasn't been that long, one could say it's admittedly a bit dickish OOC to try and invade so soon after the major faction was born. If not, then oh well.

 

[Kei Amadis]

1) Stop. - Please just stop the drama.
If the rest is Tl;DR you can stop here.

2) Map game is a map game. If you don't want to be bothered with with the map game, go minor, have fun.

You can still dev locations, npcs and tech to your hearts content, run plots etc. In fact staying minor till you are strong enough to go major is the smart thing to do. That's gaining tech, regular members, stability and a common cause for everyone to be established. If you can do that I wish you every good fortune OOC in the world, as you will be generating RP, instead of just more OOC drama.

3) Look at this neutrally for a second, there is a faction called the ONE SITH on the map and another faction called the GA looking to remove all sith from the map. You are a competing darkside faction. How is that going to go down well IC. It isn't, it shouldn't, certainly not on the premise its based on which is grr we don't like you much. Which is fine, that's rp and the map game. See above if you don't want to be part of the map game

4) Take a breath - Do you really want to bring up the chat? Really? Think for a second.

I have no feelings either way about most of the COBR OOC because I honestly don't know you all that well, but if that chat log is anything to go by, just take a breath and calm down, its a game and a hobby.

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="Vitor Imperieuse"] I think they've been around longer than GA, but both factions are fairly new and do not own a lot of territory. Honestly it would be safe for both factions to play out invasions and skirmishes to get their members ready to fight the big dogs.

 

[Via Dolorosa]

[member="Spencer Jacobs"]

That was my whole argument. Work with each other to prepare for the time we can play with the big dogs, rather than one side saying "We are going to wipe you out....but in a friendly and story like environment."

Like I said, I'm down for story and fun....always have been.

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="Xhexania"] I think people are focusing more on the OOC and who the _writers_ are. Honestly people should focus on the character and the faction they are facing. This goes for both sides.

Stop focusing on who is writing the character and just write a story. Also stop looking between the lines for things its just going to stress you and the people around you out. Then no one is going to want to write with you.

 

[Aithne Charr]

A little advice from someone with a fun time in the Vitae before it.... died off. [member="Sanya Val Lerium"] and [member="Xhexania"]

Being a Major faction means being ready to deal with invasions and Speed dominions. It sucks, we all know it sucks and i have supported people more times than i can count when it comes to rather... annoying OOC based decisions. But keep in mind this fact. The Covenant is a DARKSIDE based faction and the GA is an Old-form JEDI group. The fact that this is stated, is under the understanding that you will reach war and i as well as everyone else has expected this. IT was bound to happen and im sorry for that fact. You must understand that basing your Major Faction's government around your force order will not leave other groups to hold any fondness.

Furthermore, as a member of the thread in question... your choice of representatives is not the most welcoming. Rapax was a known sith fighter and as far as most know IC he is no better than the One Sith whom are currently killing civilians left and right. Further the constant messages about how it was decided only such and such should be there should have been made IC not OOC. In real life a government sends those whom they decide would be best suited for the job... not because they are admins of an OOC group. Another piece of advice due to my time in the Vitae and how my fellow admins were not fit to be diplomats as far as their characters were handled. I hold no disillusion i was a good diplomat at the time either, hell ii blundered immediately in the meeting we had with the TU which both [member="Seanna Vel"] and [member="Darth Adekos"] im sure will remember as members of the TU.

My point is that you relied too much on OOC when that is a major problem with the entire situation. IC is what should rule faction interactions in a thread, it was a sudden meeting and i honestly expected it to fall apart alot faster than it did. Ive supported you and others numerous times but i have to cross the line on this topic my friend... choose a better group of diplomats next time if you are going to converse with another faction, set up a non-force central government, and do some good will stuff to turn their opinion. Or understand that your people are going to be targeted for war. As much as i hate to see the second OOC or IC wise as Solan's home will be in the line of fire. Understand that you are in a position that has no grounding on a Jedi based faction stopping from wiping you out like they did in Legends Canon on Korriban.