Let's shed some of this baggage.

[Tathra Khaeus]

​[member="Darth Metus"] I'll just direct your laughable commentary to post #76

​Its a game where narrative takes the fore, and 'playing better or smart' is more to do with how accessible your faction or how many allies you have, both of which are dependent on the narrative you wanna pick.

​Just isn't as simple as you wanna pretend it is, especially with that side of undeserved arrogance you got there.

 

[Tefka]

[member="Ryan"]

Please understand I was trying to help you realize **you** are threatening your faction’s reputation in the way you represent them, not I. I have no reason to.

I hope your situation gets better.

 

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Ryan"]

I don't know if you've ever roleplayed with Tefka in a thread, but if you do you notice that he tends to be a bit of a troll and shitposter at heart. I think what you're seeing, and having a hard time reading into, is Tefka fluctuating back and forth between doing his level best to be non-partisan and responsible, and him just being frank.

[member="Darth Metus"]

You're not wrong. It's good to take a casual, semi-disinterested approach to dealing with what happens on Chaos. And a lot of the drama seems to stem from people getting a little too invested in things and taking casual events a little too personally. It's very easy to misinterpret casual trolling as a snarky jab and personal attack.

And while I mainly agree that Chaos is a game, I know that there are a lot of people that wouldn't agree with that sentiment. To them Chaos is an avenue for creation, personal expression and a place where they can come together for the sake of creating fun team experiences or live out some deep fantasy that they can't really experience elsewhere. Mostly, that stuff's always creeped me out a bit. Romance roleplay? No thanks. Not how I want to express myself and not the sort of pent up urges I need to release. Me, I'm a Lego kid at heart. I like to build, tinker, and create. I like to be presented with complex situations and I like to think of strategies to overcome those situations. When I've got the urge to participate on Chaos, those are usually the avenues I go for. I used to get caught up in the "my team" drama and I used to let other people's complaining work me into thinking that a problem was a bigger deal than it really was. I managed to escape that by removing myself from any "team" in particular and staying away from individuals that constantly get worked up over petty nonsense.

Now, I don't really know you. I can't say for sure if you're just a crass troll or a hypercompetitive jerk or a pragmatic chess player or anything else under the sun. We all have times when we come off different than we intend or when we're being casual and frank, but others just seem to read entirely different emotions into what's behind our words. But regardless of what you're actually aiming for, as a broad strokes, it's not being interpreted by others in a very friendly light. It often leaves people taking offense when no offense was intended. Hell, Kaine was complaining about that same problem the other day.

Point is... If people get offended by what you're saying and doing, even when you aren't trying to be offensive. If people are taking things personal when that's absolutely not the case... It's not always a "them" problem.

Sometimes you need to work on how you're talking to people.

And yes, that is absolutely an issue that I'm familiar with. God knows I've had my share of accidentally pissing people off on this site and I've had plenty of experience putting my foot in my mouth. And I would like to think that I've gotten better about it. But fixing that particular issue required that I be the one to put effort into being more careful about how I presented myself and how I spoke to people.

 

[Gilamar Skirata]

The idea that a game which is judged by others subjectively, not objectively, can be at all truly "competitive" is one of many bad roots in the major faction map game IMO.

Yes you want your faction to get big and what-not, but is that all you really want, all you really care about here? Through hell and high water you will own everything? Then what? Where is the community left with that sort of mentality/future. And to act as if you are free of salt and above it all with a "haha git gud newb" because "its just a game" when we've all seen the screen shots, been in the conversations, etc of everyone's faction chats is asinine (if we're really having an honest conversation here).

Like Tef said, get it off your chest. Nobody's gonna blanket ban your faction if you get off that rotted old soapbox and get on your actual one. Nobody's gonna rescind your invasion wins coming out with the REALNESS at this point and you'll still be a recruiting machine at the end of the day ANYWAYS.

We're here to have an honest conversation.

[member="Darth Metus"]

 

[The End Narrator]

Can I ask what you gain by having a huge Faction? Recognition? Kind of reminds me of reddit with karma and gold. Who cares? At the end of the day if you have enjoyed your time, wrote good stories - then that seems more worth it to me in the long run. I mean we come here all for the same enjoyment, no? Expressing creative works and such. Faction writing can be involved in that but if you step back and look at the bigger picture then you will see that Factions and the map game is not that big.

Just gotta remember that this is the game. At the end of the day, none of this follows you.

 

[Tefka]

...I get your point, but it kind of seems like you're shaming growing your Faction, which is a very popular thing to do here that I very much support. Let's not get off-topic even further.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

Toxic? nerf herder? Encouraged and played in drama? Yep. No two bones about it, I lived and breathed that sort of line. Mainly because the people who seemed to 'win' seemed to be those that thrived at directing that angst. And because, for some people like [member="Ryan"], I plumb didn't like their attitude and methods. Or in the case of [member="Gilamar Skirata"], I was honestly just saying the same thing from a different angle and jealous he got the idea to take off and I couldn't. Life sucks that way.

Was it fun? At the time, yes. Now? Hell no. It destroyed any chance at building a good reputation. Or, destroyed my reputation at the time. Maybe things can be different this go around. Did I enjoy it? In some cases, immensely. In other cases I felt it was the right course, and didn't enjoy it but felt vindicated. And in others? I did it because I truly thought I disliked the person, and it was fun to me to stir the pot and make the blood pressure jump however I could. But we all lick the spoon eventually. Did I find it funny? Well, yes. Because often enough (to me) the other party looked a buffoon, and I felt superior by (in my mind) humiliating them.

Now? Do I intend to do it? No, and I've been carefully selective in how i'm dipping my toes back into this grand game here. And I will continue to be so. And people I just dislike on principle? I'll be avoiding as politely as I can, to avoid old wounds.

Seriously, 90% of this 'drama' I have seen multiple people whining about? It is all due to your perceived egos and slights.

You don't want invaded? Don't. Be. A . Major. Faction. PERIOD. The system isn't flawed in that aspect. It works beautifully. Changing it won't prevent the problems anyone here is bringing up. It'll just complicate poodoo.

Now, flipside... If you are a Major Faction? It doesn't hurt to check yourself. Ask if you're being a dick. Or ask how you would react with the tables turned.

But here is the kicker? If that check doesn't happen, and you as a Major get a revolving door of invasions? Well, pack it in, go Minor, update your mandate, etc... Most of the 'It isnt Fair'' crowd I am seeing here is complaining because one group or the other isn't operating by THEIR groups standards. Which ain't required here. Nor should it be. And if Chaos gets you this upset, I got bad news about the real world, bub. And yes, I would address past me of just a few months ago this same way. I was unrepentantly a lover of pissing people off and blowing my top to do what I wanted. FFS I blew up a homeworld of a Faction I was in because I got pissy. There was plenty of IC justification, but the personal motivator for me was nowhere near that pure.

Biggest advice? Breathe. Play the game, or play it differently, or play elsewhere. Nothing wrong with making suggestions to change. But make sure they are suggestions and not passive aggressive demands out the side of your mouth.

And full stop? In regards to the recent wave of UCM drama? I don't see a single UCM affiliated person admitting any wrong doing. Granted, the other side ain't doin a whole lot either. But you have to realize, sometimes if you run your mouth often enough, someone is gonna tire of it. And is gonna throw their weight to shut you up. Is it right? No. Not even a bit. But it's reality. Whether here, or in life. And those in the UCM (and to some extent many more of us outside that) could use a healthy dose of remembering that.

EDIT: Also, just to try and help shed some wisdom to the UCM folk in this debacle... You whine you are story oriented, the game is unfair. IC should trump OOC(this one I agree with)... Yet, despite all the IC reasoning to let him, my boy Gil had to go into the invasion as an Ally of the Sith. For (from your own mouths) admittedly OOC reasons. When he would have swung and swung HARD for you in that fight. No matter what he thought of you personally. I know this because, whether we've gotten along in the past or not, when push came to shove on Mandalore or Corellia, he played his characters true. And would fight along with me for those groups without hesitation.

THAT is the behavior that caused these invasions. THAT is the attitude that makes you look like drama llamas. And yes, egg is on the face of the others for feeding you and doing a door-slam of invasions rather than ignoring you. Just understand, it's hard to take the victim claim seriously when you act that way.

If you guys REALLY want a clean slate and to be how you say, that's your first step. I only say it because I've been you. And i'm trying really hard not to be anymore. There's nothing good gonna come from where your headed or how you're acting. Trust.

 

[Ellie Mors]

The bottom line of my comment was that if you aren't enjoying your time here, and you are perceiving how people treat you as the reason behind it, try talking to those people and others about it to resolve those issues. The reason there's such a divide right now is because nobody wants to do the hard part and bridge communication with people. I could be writing an entire invasion and not realize someone I'm writing "against" thinks I'm being mean or whatever, if that person were to reach out to me I could either A) change my approach to be more accommodating, or B ) explain my point of view and maybe shift theirs.

And yeah, I'm a "fair weather friend". I dip out in activity when I'm scheduled for work hours that legitimately make me pull my hair out, even though I'd rather be here than working myself to an early grave. That doesn't mean advice given isn't worth trying. Some people take issue with being overrun by invasions, some of us take issue with being dismissed casually because we don't have the ability to commit consistently.

The thing that frustrates people the most is being told that every possible option doesn't work without trying.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

[member="Braith Achlys"] - Your idea implies a level of maturity I'm not seeing happening in your average Chao poster. One that can voice a disagreement without ad hominem and personal hurt. Until that shift can happen, as noble and good as your idea is, it will only serve to make things worse I feel. Because rather than a voiced grievance, we will have someone passive aggressive, or outright aggressively queen at someone, and it wil fan the flames as bad as throwing oil on the fire in the first place.

I wish your idea could work. But, I just don't think you're realistic in your audience you're addressing it to. Myself included.

 

[Ryan]

[member="Julius Sedaire"] Thats because i was Mando admin at that time and i was on you like fly on shit. The mando staff at the time highly did not like your methods, antics and tired of the complaints it got from members to deal with you. Not saying that me bullying you was ok with the two wrongs made a right kind of deal. It was what it was and more than likely could of been handled better. On top of that, you and I had made attempts to reconcile but quickly realized our personalities could never mix. In the end, I made much effort to stay out of the factions you were in and i think you have done the same.

I think for UCM Drama everyone is a tad hyper sensitive to anything mando. A member of any other faction vents a issue, no one bats an eye. A mandalorian member vents and everyone loses their mind. And then calls them Drama Lamas. Why not look a little deeper and find the root cause of whats going on. Maybe the members are burnt out and are lashing out. The whole, Don't be major if you don't like invasions is such a cop-out response. Like any faction, UCM has had good goes at invasions (defense and offense) and they have had bad goes. Name one faction that has a clean drama free Invasion record. Being doggypiled sucks, and should expect heated emotions. But from what i can see the UCM is rolling with the punches and going with it and handling a leadership change at the same time.

I don't know the reasons why they did not accept [member="Gilamar Skirata"] in the invasion as an ally and to be honest i don't know if he even needed to apply to be one. Technically he is Mandalorian and all mandos have the rights to protect Mandalore.

 

[Captain Larraq]

Name one faction that has a clean drama free Invasion record.

ORC?

 

[Darth Carnifex]

ORC is pretty good

[member="Captain Larraq"]

 

[Tefka]

If you're drama free, you're boring. I don't like boring. I love me some drama.

But my dudes.

Dudes.

You can have the cake and eat it, too. You can lose your cool one day and make up the next. You can care about something passionately, but also not treat each other like dogs.

 

[Kalic Daws]

Well said [member="Tefka"] . I think sometimes we forget there's a living, breathing person behind the screen, and I'm a firm believer of treat others as you'd like to be treated.

 

[Kaalia Pavanos]

ORC is pretty good

[member="Captain Larraq"]

Shoutouts to the ORC homies. Trash Pandas best pandas.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

[member="Ryan"] - At the end of the day, we all are only in control of, & only responsible for, our actions. Nothing more or less. The claim the UCM was provoked, ignores this to play victim. Any number of folk here could do that. But a surprising number of us are acting in a better manner. You as a person, and the faction you are defending, won't make any progress until you own your drama without excuse.

And yes, Trash Panda best panda.

 

[Ryan]

[member="Julius Sedaire"] did you own your own drama? When you went for Faction Owner of ORC. That got nasty in a hurry if i remember correctly.

Also if there was a faction that did have a drama free invasions. ORC would be my best bet.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

[member="Ryan"] - Dude. I'm not going to detail every piddly event I caused or participated in that caused drama. That was then. I owned up to all of it. I am no better or worse than you excepting I am owning my issues without reservation and without victimization or blaming of others.

Blanket statement - I was a shit person. I did shit things. There is literally no instance of drama you can bring that I won't own up to. And no character slander you can attempt that I haven't done worse to myself with my own actions. Nor does deflecting by trying to make me look worse lessen your own behaviors or character flaws.

Difference is? I know when to walk away. As I am now. Bless your heart, and good luck

 

[Tefka]

Everyone can continue to bring up issues as they'd like, but I'm going to consider this a good ventilation of some issues. This discussion is by no means a resolution, however.

It's work.

Those who surfaced in this thread for the drama, I permit you now to rescind to the deeper depths of lurkdom.

To those who enjoy this community, it's work.

Every day, try to catch yourself in that mindset. Address it then. Every day.



Last bit of advice, I promise.

...if the people you find toxic laugh at you, troll you, harass you, etc... try ignoring them, no matter the cost.

When one lives their life by the amount of attention received from others, nothing hurts worse than not getting it.

 

[Onrai]

Shedding baggage thread? Seems legit.

What did you do to cause ‘damage’, be toxic?
I created Circe Savan and through creating said character pretty much socially isolated myself on the site during my initial time here, resulting in a snapback that saw me exiled from multiple factions and form particularly hostile relationships with various members - not to mention positive relationships with certain undesirable members - [member="Isis Fontana"] and [member="Vazela"] among them. Upon returning from a two year break after no longer being able to enjoy the site as a pariah, I ended up effectively isolating myself within the faction I came back to and more actively engaged with another allied faction in order to get any excuse to create enjoyable RP - which is now pointless given the faction I'm in is attacking the faction I was actively RPing with and enjoying threading with, thus severing any sort of reasonable RPing opportunities.

Why? Was it funny, did it make you feel better?
I wouldn't wish getting punted from faction to faction and having your company destroyed(when that meant something) three times, then passed over to someone else through violation of an agreement, upon anyone, let alone feeling socially isolated within the only faction that fits the only character you have any muse for. I at least felt better upon taking a couple year break, but it's certainly been dragging me back down. Not like there's a [member="Cradossk"] to make a Fringe 2.0 this time around.

Isn’t that just exhausting?
I know, right? I'm just glad most of the people that made this site so unenjoyable have decided to move on elsewhere and are no longer a threat to my ability to enjoy what goes on. After all, having fun should be the point of being on this server for everyone. Fun will last when factions, RPing partners, and more disappear.

Why are you either 1) still putting up with it or 2) still doing it?
You see another Sith faction out there that actually has some sort of map presence? And before the "why don't you make one" inevitably comes out, I realize I don't have enough friends to ever get a faction like that together. I know my capabilities and starting/running a faction certainly isn't one of them. Just ask @Thorne.

tl;dr made a sh*tty character, became a pariah, came back, and now sorta feel that way where I am. Can't thread with people I threaded with to not feel like a Pariah due to IC shenanigans. Doubts in staff magnified. Drama will continue forever.