Parliament Poll

[Ludolf Vaas]

I personally prefer the title Moff. It comes from canon, and that's a good thing. To people who say it sounds too "Empire-y"... yeah, isn't that the point? This faction considers itself an Imperial faction. See the big fat Imperial logo on the banner?

I know that it was my character, I would much rather be called "High Moff Vaas" than "Will Vaas". "Will Vaas" just sounds weird.

 

[Sage Bane]

What about Moffs for NFU's and Wills for FU's?

Everybody wins

 

[Darth Carnifex]

I think that could be a fair compromise.

[member="Sage Bane"]
[member="Ludolf Vaas"]

 

[Darth Ferus]

[member="Sage Bane"]

Makes sense to me.

[member="Darth Vornskr"]

I didn't know what a Moff was until the New Order, and even then I had to have one of the others explain it to me. Not everyone knows what it is .p.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

I guess you didn't watch Episode IV?

[member="Darth Ferus"]

 

[Setzi Lunelle]

[member="Sage Bane"]'s idea works. It's not a sticking point for me either way.

And personally I have no problem aligning the Sith with Empire values and nomenclature. I played a pretty active Stormtrooper Commander here a few months ago.

 

[Ludolf Vaas]

What about Moffs for NFU's and Wills for FU's? Everybody wins

I thought we said that the Moff/Will position was a government position and only for NFUs.

I don't think this would work because if we are doing that then we would have to say that we are letting Sith into the "Moff Council", which would then complicate the rest of the hierarchy, the original point of which was to provide a NFU-exclusive progression. For example, that would mean a Sith could theoretically become a High Moff (or "High Will"), even though there are already a bunch of Sith-exclusive positons on the High Council. Thus leaving nothing exclusive to NFUs.

 

[Sage Bane]

I thought we said that the Moff/Will position was a government position and only for NFUs.

I don't think this would work because if we are doing that then we would have to say that we are letting Sith into the "Moff Council", which would then complicate the rest of the hierarchy, the original point of which was to provide a NFU-exclusive progression. For example, that would mean a Sith could theoretically become a High Moff (or "High Will"), even though there are already a bunch of Sith-exclusive positons on the High Council. Thus leaving nothing exclusive to NFUs.

Not necessarily. I don't think there would be a need for a High Will. The "High Wills" are basically the same thing as the Voices and Hands.

The Moffs and High Moff/Grand Moff would be part of an exclusive progression for NFU.

That was my thinking anyway.

 

[Shachath]

The parliament is not 'exclusively' NFU as much as it is restricted to those who are not in the Sith Order or other FU organization. Some people are just force sensitive, Umbarans and Miraluka cant help it, but the umbarans had a HUGE influence in the government for thousands of years.

Anyway, yeah. Not restricted.

Also, I obviously like Wills better cause I wrote it. But yes.

 

[Ludolf Vaas]

Not necessarily. I don't think there would be a need for a High Will. The "High Wills" are basically the same thing as the Voices and Hands. The Moffs and High Moff/Grand Moff would be part of an exclusive progression for NFU. That was my thinking anyway.

Then what would the difference be between a Moff and a Will, other than the fact that one is a Sith and one is not?

If the difference is ONLY that, then what is to stop the "Moff/Will Council" from being simply overrun by Sith? Part of the previous complaints were that we didn't give NFUs enough things to manage on their own.

The parliament is not 'exclusively' NFU as much as it is restricted to those who are not in the Sith Order or other FU organization. Some people are just force sensitive, Umbarans and Miraluka cant help it, but the umbarans had a HUGE influence in the government for thousands of years.

Implying Force-sensitives have the option to NOT join the Sith, which I don't think is the case. If one is Force-senstive but not a Sith, forgive me but what are they doing here? I haven't seen a single character like that around. It seems that the way things work is that we simply don't let random Force-sensitives wander around doing whatever they want. If you are FS and you join the faction, you are put into the Sith Order.

It's in our name. "One Sith".

If you are Force-sensitive but either don't know it or you're hiding it from people to avoid joining the Sith for whatever reason, that is a different story. But even then you're not going to go around using the Force in the open. You would be, in practice, a Non-Force User.

Alien species like the ones you mentioned are also a non-sequitur. The Sith and Imperials have always had a pretty clear racial hierarchy that favors humans, so those species never played a big role in Imperial government and we also don't have many (or any) of them to my knowledge. If the OS were to ever control the territories of Miralukans and Umbarans, they would most likely be promptly conscripted into the Sith Order.

 

[Shachath]

Well considering this character is a Miralukan who has no desire or intention to join the Sith and he has been appointed/will be appointed the imperial governor of a planet... the logic doesnt quite fit the situation.

I understand your insistence on adhering to canon, but the thing is... the OS and SWRP in general are not JUST canon information. We check the canon and make sure that things adhere loosely to core canon principles, but the OS is not the Empire or the exact same Sith Order thatthe faction is based on.

Check my math, but we RP in a time decades after the canon took place.

As a Codex Judge, I have extensive knowledge of the Canon/EU (I have to, ) but I dont let the canon restrict submissions without exception. I also do not allow the canon to limit my possibilities as a writer.

Just as the Codex Judges manage the Codex and strive yo balance the canon with individual creativity, this Faction is guided and overseen by the FAs who serve the same basic function. Upholding the vision of the Faction that the members want and balancing it with the canon.

 

[Setzi Lunelle]

I feel like we're getting into hair-splitting territory. Can we just agree on one thing with the thought that it can always be modified later?

 

[Shachath]

[member="Darth Azurea"]
I agree whole heartedly. Lets put a basic structure into place and let the members develop something organically instead of debating it among a select few people here.

 

[Sage Bane]

I feel like we're getting into hair-splitting territory. Can we just agree on one thing with the thought that it can always be modified later?

I agree, let's get this (political) party started already.

We have the framework for a test drive. If people are unsatisfied, we can work on improving it as we go.

Edit: Sniped by the scary Miraluka. We basically said the same thing

 

[Shachath]

[member="Sage Bane"]
Got 'em.

Essentially, where I am is that the Faction voted on the proposal they want with 5 people dissenting (granted I did not vote.)

I would much rather have a character IC trying to push a racist humans only policy in this parliament than talking about whether the Empire was historically racist OOC. Or otherwise to have a character pushing to change the structure of the government IC instead of debating the merits of a more codified system here.

 

[Setzi Lunelle]

[member="Shachath"]

 

[Ludolf Vaas]

Well considering this character is a Miralukan who has no desire or intention to join the Sith and he has been appointed/will be appointed the imperial governor of a planet... the logic doesnt quite fit the situation.

Under the system being proposed, actually no. It was made clear that the title of Moff/Will goes to Elite-ranked characters only. The idea being to prevent people from joining up and being "surprise! I own a planet nao and can boss around Sith Masters LOL!"

I would much rather have a character IC trying to push a racist humans only policy in this parliament than talking about whether the Empire was historically racist OOC. Or otherwise to have a character pushing to change the structure of the government IC instead of debating the merits of a more codified system here.

I think you have things backwards here. Thing is, the OS has already had a number of anti-alien policies on numerous occasions, just ask both myself and [member="Darth Vornskr"]. The person trying to push for change from an IC perspective should be you. You are the outsider here, and you are the one trying to overturn generally established Sith and Imperial policies for which there is a canon basis. Your character is a Miraluka joining the OS and that requires some explanation on your part.

Number one, what prompted him to join the OS in the first place, knowing that he would be thought of by some as a second-class citizen because of his race, and knowing that the government claims direct inheritance from past systems that openly discriminated against aliens. Number two, since he is Force-sensitive, how did he avoid being conscripted into the Sith? The Sith don't take kindly to Force Users in their faction who refuse to become Sith. Does he simply not use his Force powers? In which case, like I said above, that would make him for practical purposes a Non-Force User. In that case why is it necessary to let Sith/Force-Users become planetary governors (Moffs or Wills)?

The burden is really on you to explain these things. It's your character. What i'm instead seeing from you is an attempt to game the system to suit your character specifically. Yes, we're not "100% canon" as it were, but we still do indeed take a strong influence from canon. Almost everything in our faction is based upon it to some degree. Plus we already have established anti-alien sentiment. So why don't YOU be the character who pushes for a more racially inclusive OS, not coming in here and waving the magic wand and declaring that we've always been welcoming to aliens because it suits you.

That aside, again I will ask as a general question to everybody. Why are we mixing FUs and NFUs in the so-called Moff Council, and if we do, what is to stop it from simply becoming a pointless mini version of the High Council above it?

As for whether to call them Moffs or Wills, we can sort that crap out later. First we have to settle this very important point.

 

[Setzi Lunelle]

Why do you keep filibustering this proposal? [member="Ludolf Vaas"]

I think you are the only one who is keeping this strange argument going. As for aliens in the One Sith, despite whatever canon says, we have many of them here. To my knowledge IC there has never been an anti-alien sentiment played out on the boards.

 

[Ludolf Vaas]

Why do you keep filibustering this proposal?

I'm simply trying to make clear exactly what it is we're doing before we do it and everybody has a different idea of what's been done and what it means, leading to massive headaches and arguments down the road.

I think you are the only one who is keeping this strange argument going. As for aliens in the One Sith, despite whatever canon says, we have many of them here.

This is an unimportant point, I agree. It was only brought up because [member="Shachath"] is insisting that we change the system to suit Miralukans, because she is one.

To my knowledge IC there has never been an anti-alien sentiment played out on the boards.

This would be incorrect. But again, not important.

What is important is what exactly we're doing with the so-called "Moff Council". Open to NFUs only or Sith too?

 

[Shachath]

[member="Ludolf Vaas"]
I made sure I cleared my premise for an OS character with the people actually in charge of dictating how the OS operates (aka. the FA and high ranking Sith.) If I need to be doing something more, I'll do it. It's not like I'm averse to writing, because I can't stress enough that it is literally my job to know Star Wars well enough to write and judge new ideas.

I would also like to point out that I proposed this parliament BEFORE I changed this character account to Shachath and wrote his new profile. So no, I'm not trying to play any system.

I know that the way you're treating me right now is not the way that more active OS members treat new comers. I also realize that you have a biased opinion of me for whatever vague reason, so you've been significantly more combative to everything I have said. So, I'm just going to look past the overt rudeness here.

In any case, as it stands, the Faction overwhelmingly voted in favor of the original proposal. I'm personally not going to continue participating in this discussion because from my perspective, the only reason we are having this conversation is because you have some sort of beef with me and want to shut down the proposal because I happened to write it.

Later days, buddies!