Should Major Factions Be Provided Incentives For Winning Rebellions?

[Tefka]

What if we had a stipulation where if a Minor loses a Rebellion, they can't rebel again ever; but if they win, and they choose not to go Major, they can continue to rebel until they lose?
>.>

Lets focus on immersion for a second.

What’s the purpose of rebelling if not to overthrow the government and establish your own? I feel the amount of times rebellions happen in history, a strong majority of rebellions intended to do that.

Because outside the discussion of immersion, the choice to not go major and just continue rebelling is to focus on the game mechanic of rebelling. Sure, in history, you have outside entities promoting rebellions through third parties to sow discontent and destabilizing chaos.

But the point of the actual rebelling party is usually to establish a government, ie major faction. Maybe instead of limiting rebellions, we just remove the ability to choose not to go Major.

Because focusing on the game mechanic is definitely a cause of drama.

 

[Alkor Centaris]

I can get behind that, too.

[member="Tefka"]

 

[Jacen Voidstalker]

Lets focus on immersion for a second.

Because outside the discussion of immersion, the choice to not go major and just continue rebelling is to focus on the game mechanic of rebelling. Sure, in history, you have outside entities promoting rebellions through third parties to sow discontent and destabilizing chaos.
But the point of the actual rebelling party is usually to establish a government, ie major faction. Maybe instead of limiting rebellions, we just remove the ability to choose not to go Major.

That sounds like a better option than trying to police only one rebellion each. I like that a lot.

 

[Itash Mecetti]

I decided against weighing into this whole debate at first, because of the obvious interests I have as a TSE admin.

But this isn't going to be a retroactive decision one way or the other, so I feel more comfortable speaking my mind now.

I think a lot of people here are missing the point of the discussion. This isn't a debate to encourage (give incentives) for Major Factions to participate in a rebellion. They already have that! It is the threat of losing potentially a month's worth of work in the shape of a SSD and x amount of time (depending on the faction) of working for that hex. That is an incentive to be involved, yes, but it is not an encouragement to actually enjoy the prospect of a rebellion.

It does nothing to encourage people to have fun with it and enjoy the story. In fact, it does the opposite and puts more pressure on those Major Factions to compete and try to 'win'. The same goes for invasions, but that is a different debate.

The suggestions I have read about giving minor factions even more power... they would put even more pressure on MFs, increase the stakes and make people even less willing to just enjoy the thread. This is a debate to get Major Factions actually interested and engaged in the rebellion mechanic outside of the usual 'Ugh, I guess we should go in there and do stuff.' Instead of adding even more sticks, adding a carrot or two isn't going to be the end of the world like some seem to think.

My two cents.

 

[Armand Temi]

My vote is no and I don't think anything should change regarding the rules.

When an entity becomes a Major Faction it should always be planning for galaxy conflict in whatever form it takes. Build your allies or make your enemies. That's your choice. But have a plan for both offense and defense.

If you constantly initiate war, you're painting a big target on your back to be both fought and rebelled. Your incentive should be nothing more character/faction development and survival.

Otherwise why go Major? To rest on your laurels?

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

My thoughts echo those of [member="Varas Ren"].


If you go major, be prepared for conflict. You've painted a target on your back. Especially if your faction is rather prominent and occupies a signficant portion of space. Ruling a galactic emire/alliance/republic should be hard work (just look at how difficult it has been for historical major powers on Earth...and those just governed a portion of one planet).


Don't want the stress of rebellions (or invasions, for that matter)? Then don't plant your flag on the map. Or pick Hermit Mandate and be free of rebellions, at the price of significantly slower expansion.

 

[Tefka]

Obviously I get that, Varas/Siobhan. I've no room for hearing the complaints of "they shouldn't be able to Rebel us at all", and I don't think anyone is really arguing for that.

But there's like, a thousand minor factions, each with an infinite amount of rebellions in them.

Major Factions are hopelessly outgunned in that respect, on paper. I was just telling Staff that I don't think anything will come of these suggestion threads, because the community is too divided/distracted and there's too many people arguing for the sake of argument without really focusing on the rules. I like getting ya'lls opinions but ya'll are very "Mob Rulesy" this time around, and very distracted.

I'd probably get more results out of the dog from the movie Up. But for those of you, like yourselves, giving proper feedback and discussion - thanks, even if we achieved nothing.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

Oh, quite so. If the board was getting hammered with rebellions, not to mention a ridiculous number of sockpuppet minor factions being suddenly formed to inundate a major faction with a flood of rebellions, I'd be more inclined to consider some alterations to be necessary.


Thing is...the actual number of Rebellions is quite small. The two really big ones were Atrisia and Kaeshana (the latter being the result of a dom race between two majors, with one of them being backed by a minor faction that had a stake in the place), both a long time ago. The rules were also quite different then.


Far as I recall, since staff altered Rebellion rules a good while ago, we've had...the two Rebellions against FWC (a recalled major faction), a Rebellion against AE (another recalled major faction), plus the two Rebellion, uh, Rebellions against TSE (one has been concluded and judged, the second just started).


From my perspective, in most cases the odds are already stacked against a minor faction to win a Rebellion against a major that has a healthy member base and is in good shape. Successful Rebellions tend to be against recalled majors since those are already on their way out. On paper, we have a huge number of minor factions, but most tend to be inactive projects or small groups that stick to themselves. So the actual number of minors really able to affect the map game is quite low.