What Does Light Side Faction Mean?

[Lugus Porkins]

I have no problem with darksiders (touched by the darkside OR practitioners* ) in GR. If they're fighting for the same cause then why not work together if they're both working for the greater good and the same ideas and goals? I just have one requirement: Laws and the code cannot be ignored in front of my characters. Porkins is a Lawful good. If someone breaks the law in front of him, he will not stand for it. He will intervene if he has to. Uri is a Neutral good. If someone breaks the code or break morals, he will not stand for it. He will intervene if he has to.

Is this to say my Jedi won't sense the aura and be on edge? Oh yes he will. If he isn't then I will give you a reason (most likely he will be) Is this to say he will be hateful to your character? no. Uri is an understanding and patient being. Just make sure your character doesn't give him a reason to be defensive unless you really want that.

*Keep in mind if you are going the practitioner direction that never plans to quit using the darkside, you are also playing with a loaded gun IMO. In my mind it's the same as an escaped convict trying to join a police force. It's like begging to be caught.

 

[Zonia Kalranoos]

Just to add something(not trying to tell people how to RP their characters, merely stating some facts):

Dark side characters may have different motivation and allignment, if we look at 9 customary types. Clearly, Count Dooku and Darth Maul are not the same type of Sith. Characters have different back stories and different motivation and most importantly, different personalities.

Some become dark after personal tragedy, some are just plain sociopats.
Dark siders are generally selfish, impatient and power-hungry, while some of them might be outright brutes, while others are decievers. Either way, they are not selfless and helping. They see other people as instruments to their means. This is the reason why some characters who are Jedi are susceptible to succumbing, while others are not. Character.

Alas, I am going to give an example of a Sith who is using the Light side back in One Sith. IC consequences? He gets very little interaction with his peers. I'm sure this will be the case as well in GR. A way to avoid this is to simply be sensible and come up with a close to awesome IC explanation why "enemy of my enemy should be my friend."

 

[Moira Skaldi]

Interesting talk. Since I don't write a Jedi...I'll refrain from commenting on what I believe their Code says!


That said, my main, Siobhan Kerrigan, appeared in several invasions in the past on the Republic side (the last being Alderaan, so it's been a good while) and has done business with the Jedi/Republic. She's also very openly a Dark Jedi, who hates Sith due to her IC history and does not butcher innocents, but is still out for herself and her family. Counts a number of Jedi masters as friends. Can still be a very ruthless woman ( * looks at that old battle at Roche * ).


If at some point she ran into an old school Jedi, who called her out on her dark side use and they had a dispute/argument, I'd find it entertaining. Same applies if Jedi were suspicious or downright hostile to her. It would be fun storytelling and quite realistic.

 

[Lugus Porkins]

To clarify as well, if a character is in a light-sided faction that DOES NOT make them good. Also don't think that your character has to be evil to be in a dark-sided faction. Just keep in mind that you're characters actions will not be the norm. No matter what laws of that government and order are expected to be followed either way.

If a character in question is openly affiliated with the darkside (uses, abuses, breaks the law/code, that jazz) with no plans to stop and ICly the TJO and GR know and accept it with out doing anything about it, THAT is when I (OOC and IC) will have a problem with Dark FUs in GR.

If GR or TJO ever let anyone openly (and ICly) break laws that effect the whole Republic and there are no consequences for the action then I can honestly say something will need to change. IC shouldn't be tossed out the window just to OOCly please someone who wants to do a plot and get away with breaking a law ICly.

Crimes should be paid for. This can be said irl as well.

My extra 2 cents.

So to recap. Touched by the darkside? As long as no longer using and following the code that is fine. Practioner? best not use it out in the open and follow the code. Expect to be found and expect consequences. Traitor planning espionage or genocide? CONSEQUENCES. Big ones. Expect them. >.>

 

[Zonia Kalranoos]

In another thread which was already quoted, [member="Kian Karr"] pointed this out

Nothing in our code dictates that we must destroy all people who follow in the darkside. You can fight alongside a Republic soldier who is a darksider as long as they break no Republic laws and are there to help.

This worries me for several reasons
a)I can have a Republic soldier who is a darksider who can use the Force and wield a lightsaber. Why not then simply join Jedi and repent, like Taeli or Alen?
b)As far as I know, practicing Jedi/light siders are banned from holding positions in say Senate. Does this mean practicing dark siders can be Senators?
c)Finally, what makes a Dark sider more qualified to be a soldier of Republic than a Jedi who would join the military and kill on command? This makes little sense, I'm afraid.
Why can't Jedi join military or senate, while practicing darksider FUs can? Eh?

 

[Kian Karr]

[member="Tionne Thanewulf"]

All force users are barred from serving as senators. As for the other questions, this is something that needs to be discussed further. We've not had many non-Jedi force users in the faction before and we are open to suggestions on how to handle it.

My instincts tells me that it is up to the military of they would allow darksiders into units or not. I know GRIM would likely employ them for some tasks, but again this is conjecture.

 

[Kenrath]

In another thread which was already quoted, [member="Kian Karr"] pointed this out



This worries me for several reasons
a)I can have a Republic soldier who is a darksider who can use the Force and wield a lightsaber. Why not then simply join Jedi and repent, like Taeli or Alen?
b)As far as I know, practicing Jedi/light siders are banned from holding positions in say Senate. Does this mean practicing dark siders can be Senators?
c)Finally, what makes a Dark sider more qualified to be a soldier of Republic than a Jedi who would join the military and kill on command? This makes little sense, I'm afraid.
Why can't Jedi join military or senate, while practicing darksider FUs can? Eh?

Consider the PM is a FU I think alot of what you are referring to is becoming more of a grey area with each passing day. A Senator can't be FU unless they leave the order. Which I thing is how the PM is a FU. But then can they rejoin the order at a later time and still keep their office or would they have to resign said office.

I had a lot of ideas I was going to share with the skype group on a lot of these fronts but........................... I digress.

 

[Zonia Kalranoos]

Consider the PM is a FU I think alot of what you are referring to is becoming more of a grey area with each passing day. A Senator can't be FU unless they leave the order. Which I thing is how the PM is a FU. But then can they rejoin the order at a later time and still keep their office or would they have to resign said office.

I had a lot of ideas I was going to share with the skype group on a lot of these fronts but........................... I digress.

Like I said in PM to you, you can still join(and you need to join), we only discussed structure of Senate, NOTHING ELSE. Can you please stop acting so offended? Discussion group consists from people from around the globe - not everyone will be online at the same time, all the time. So, please join.

 

[Kenrath]

[member="Tionne Thanewulf"]

Not acting, not offended, and yes I realize time zone differences create an issue.

 

[Corvus Raaf]

A few points of clarity:

1. Jedi are forbidden from taking office - so a Jedi could not also be a Senator concurently

2. The bill on Senators and FUs is woolly at best - you have to demonstrate the Senator is 'active' as an FU and has a 'significant' midi-chlorian count. Neither are things we can measure. And by definition, does that mean Miraluka can't be Senators?

3. The Republic (and I mean the members really) need to decide if we should have DS characters in the Faction - let alone what roles they can play

4. Don't confuse regular alignment with DS and LS. Star Wars has only two alignments - Light and Dark (normally translated as good and evil). Does that mean all LS are good? Not sure. Does that mean a DS that plays a good character is poor at RP? Don't know.

We have possibly opened a can of worms here

 

[Zonia Kalranoos]

A few points of clarity:

1. Jedi are forbidden from taking office - so a Jedi could not also be a Senator concurently

2. The bill on Senators and FUs is woolly at best - you have to demonstrate the Senator is 'active' as an FU and has a 'significant' midi-chlorian count. Neither are things we can measure. And by definition, does that mean Miraluka can't be Senators?

3. The Republic (and I mean the members really) need to decide if we should have DS characters in the Faction - let alone what roles they can play

4. Don't confuse regular alignment with DS and LS. Star Wars has only two alignments - Light and Dark (normally translated as good and evil). Does that mean all LS are good? Not sure. Does that mean a DS that plays a good character is poor at RP? Don't know.

We have possibly opened a can of worms here

[member="Corvus Raaf"] Maybe I wasn't clear. By "active FU", I mean people who use lightsabers to smack around, Force push children and generally recieve their Force training elsewhere. I don't see how Miraluka reference connects to this; they just use the Force to see. A Miraluka senator who is an actual senator and not say a Dark Jedi Knight cannot be mistaken for a Jedi.

As for alignment, I agree. DnD alignments are more as a compass for writers. If you look at SW pen and paper rulebook, you will find no alignments there. Actually, I found it really hard to play without those, especially NFU chars.
Esentially, we will have to decide if GR is Lawful Good/Lawful Neutral or Chaotic/Good or Chaotic/Neutral as a faction. This should determine how Evil alignment characters are treated IC.

The real question is not only whether GR will endorse various dark-siders but also other NFU characters which are of evil alignment such as criminals. Do we do whatever it takes in our fight against One Sith, even if it means teaming up with known darksiders and/or criminals who would've been prosecuted in normal times?
Do we have some principles left or do we want to prevail, regardless of the costs? In the latter prevails, GR's democratic exposé may be something skewed.

 

[Judah Lesan]

I've tried to catch up on this... I think this is where a little common sense comes into play. Using Palapatine as an example (and I am likely repeating someone), he got away with what he did because he kept his true colors hidden. If the writer has a good idea for a story, then I say let them in, provided they are not a blatant dark sider.

Now where the line can be blurry is with that of a Jedi Shadow... the name itself is not one people like for the reason it implies a touch of darkness... in fact the way I write Judah is that he is willing to get very close to the edge, but is confident in his position with the light side.

[member="Tionne Thanewulf"] also brings up a good point, are we willing to do whatever it takes? As a character, Judah says yes. As a writer I think this debate should happen IC!!!! This would make a great discussion to RP out to see where different toons come out on this. Some of this character's best moments have come when he has confronted the council in places he thought they were wrong... another board, and it needed to be done, but it garnered a lot of support and fans because the conflict in the debate was written well.

The Cali-Surferbum will remember that moment. Things like this should be formed IC and would keep me more active for sure because I love this stuff!

 

[Corvus Raaf]

I don't see how Miraluka reference connects to this; they just use the Force to see. A Miraluka senator who is an actual senator and not say a Dark Jedi Knight cannot be mistaken for a Jedi.

There is a bill - passed by the Senate - that says Senators may not be an active FU with a high midi-chlorian count. No mention of them being a Jedi or a Sith, just actively using their Abilities.

That's the law as it was written by characters from the GR last year.

The point I made was two-fold. Firstly we can't measure it. And secondly, a Miraluka is a practising FU - given their need to see.

I was merely pointing out how confusing the law is and how it's open to such wide interpretation.

 

[Taeli Raaf]

That is law in a nutshell, interpretation is always key

 

[Zonia Kalranoos]

And secondly, a Miraluka is a practising FU - given their need to see.

Perhaps better definition would be trained and practising?

 

[Zenitha Chuma]

As for my comments of "deal with it," I'm sorry if they bothered you in any way but that post was meant to address the OOC angst that was being caused within that OOC thread. How you wish to RP out these interactions is entirely up to you.

Kian, I hate to be nitpicky, but that's not at all how I read this:

As a Jedi you can not like the fact that they are a darksider, but if they are being cooperative and helping in the fight and not breaking any laws, you are going to have to deal with it.

"Jedi" and "darksider" are In Character constructs. If you were speaking to the writers, I would expect different constructs to be referenced. Here it sounds far more like an address to the characters themselves. Blurring the lines like this only serves to exacerbate issues like these, where some writers fail to recognize the distinction between their characters and themselves.

 

[Lugus Porkins]

[member="Aimone"]

It was an unfortunate choice of words that were misinterpreted. Kian has apologized for the confusion and miscommunication.

The situation was already fairly heated he was just trying to dispel it and it back fired a bit.

 

[Dish]

Uh...

Guys the Republic has always had people in the moral gray area, anti-heroes are fun to write. Let's just take over the OS and all that.

 

[Kian Karr]

"Jedi" and "darksider" are In Character constructs. If you were speaking to the writers, I would expect different constructs to be referenced. Here it sounds far more like an address to the characters themselves. Blurring the lines like this only serves to exacerbate issues like these, where some writers fail to recognize the distinction between their characters and themselves.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. It was very poorly worded! And I apologize (again!) about it. I was bothered by the seeming storm of drama that was brewing in that thread and was trying to address it as quickly as possible.

The situation was already fairly heated he was just trying to dispel it and it back fired a bit.

It did backfire and I'm actually glad it did!!! Because now we are having this discussion. We really do want to hear as many thoughts on this as possible and we've discussed putting up a poll in a few days with a number of options to see what the faction thinks about the issues here, so PLEASE KEEP THE IDEAS COMING!

Kian, I hate to be nitpicky,

......I'm not touching this one.....

 

[Zenitha Chuma]

[member="Kian Karr"]

Thanks for clearing it up.