Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

What we need for successful invasions

Status
Not open for further replies.
There was a lot wrong with the Ord Mirit invasion from an OOC perspective that led to our failure to take the planet from the One Sith. I wanted to conduct a hot wash (a sort of after action review) that would bring those inadequacies to light so that Republic leadership and writers could improve our chances of victory in future invasions.
Anyone is free to discuss this list, though I will be quick to silence conversation that strays too far off topic, or proves unproductive for the purposes of this thread. Observers and participants alike are free to engage in the discussion, though the list I have drawn up is intended to be taken as a preliminary outline for improvement.
None of this is intended as a personal criticism to anyone involved, and I expect us to be able to take suggestions humbly as well as continue the practice of respect for one another throughout the discussion.



1) Participation: We had many writers sign up for the invasion that ended up backing out well after it started. While it's perfectly acceptable for any writer to withdraw from an Invasion for any reason, signing up without a certainty of your own participation does us nothing but harm. Initial battle plans are formed on the basis of many factors, one of the biggest being the number of people we are expecting to be involved, and who those individuals are, as they bring different strengths and weaknesses to the battlefield.

2) Allies: We need to vette our allies before accepting their participation. I understand that the goal of RP is to have fun, but the goal of an Invasion is victory, and we must align with individuals who will best suit the purpose of our objectives. Two of the allies I worked with at Objective C backed out of the invasion at its most crucial time. While I do not hold such a decision against them, I will avoid relying on them in future endeavors for that very reason. Allies must be friends of the Republic, yes, but just as importantly they must have insight into our enemies, expertise that augments our own, and experience and knowledge that will benefit us on the battlefield.

3) Allocation of Writers: This one is for the Republic leadership, and I say it not to scold them but because it needs to be remembered: I was left as the only GR writer for Objective C, working with five allies. I understand that the Sith focus on PVP for victory, but it does us no good to engage them on that front only to lose to them on another.

4) Jedi Masters: We clearly need more of them. Perhaps the thought of writing a Jedi isn't as appealing as writing a Dark Sider that can excuse any atrocity against life as being the fault of someone killing their parents when they were five, but it is an important role to the GR as well as being a character type that offers a multitude of opportunities for story and character develeopment. It doesn't hurt that Jedi Masters are allocated more forces in NPC battles, and can get away with using more and better abilities in combat.

5) OOC Negotiation: This one is mostly for myself. I worked well with the Sith writers, avoiding any unnecessary RPJ complaints, but did so at the expense of making concessions that resulted in an eventual advantage for the Sth when the OOC judging came down. Be rest assured that will not happen again.

6) Recce threads: Reconnaissance is crucial to success on the battlefield, and we cannot be so lazy that we give up such a brutal advantage. Recce threads allow us to write small stories ahead of an invasion starting and determine/glean certain details about the coming battle. For instance, the Sith did not provide a terrain description for Ord Mirit until the day before the invasion was scheduled to start, and a map only once it had begun. Had we conducted a Recce thread we could have dictated the terrain layout for the invasion. That alone is a massive advantage that allows us to better plan our battles.
If you're unable to participate in an invasion, but you have time before it starts, help out with a Recce thread!

7) Specialized Technology: The GR initiated an invasion against a force that is known for employing Yuuzhan Vongtech, yet there was little effort to compose a force capable of neutralizing their defense and offense technology. That was a crucial error that prevented us from succeeding in many attacks against their forces.

8) Involvement: Many writers who signed on showed up but lacked any serious involvement. I understand this happened with Objective A, though the Sith were the ones dragging ass the entire time. That's understandable, but we must commit to the 24 hour rule from now on, or else apply those forces elsewhere.

9) Adherence to an over all Battle Plan and to the Chain of Command: This is not a real military force, and I only had this problem wth allies, but I may as we'll share it here.
On several occasions I had writers defy the battle plan and attempt to take matters into their own hands, IC and OOC. While I understand there are frustrations during Invasions, it does no one any good except our enemies to get angry and strike out on our own to play hero. We can do this together, but we can only do this together.
Once the battle starts, we stick to the plan unless our circumstances force us to adapt. Likewise, once the battle begins, there is no longer any democracy. The writers running each objective are the authority figures for that objective, and their word is law, IC AND OOC. Anyone who disagrees is free to leave the invasion, but will likely not be invited back by people like myself.
Unit cohesion is very important, especially in scenarios when third party judgment is needed to determine victory. Sometimes the decisions between us winning or the enemy fall on a knife's edge, and the difference could be something callous or sarcastic being said. If our adversaries want to make that mistake, let them, but we cannot behave the same way. OOCly, we must be as professional as we can manage.

All discussion between sides must take place between a specified medium, and for that I recommend the following:
No fewer than three writers should be chosen to lead EACH invasion objective. The first will exist as the battle master, forming the tactical plan with the group and guiding the IC and OOC actions of the fight. The other two will exist to facilitate OOC discussion between the two sides of the battle, and augment the battle master's efforts and plans.

10) Coordinated attacks: No one fights alone. If we have two writers on every one of theirs, we secure damage and victory itself much easier. This does not require we outnumber them, only that we remain fluid through each battle.

11) Coordinating damage acceptance: This was a boon for the Ord Mirit invasion, and prevented issues between ourselves and the OS. We must continue this trend, rather than leave it to the individual writer to sort out their damages alone.

12) Adherence to the 24 hour rule: I said it already but wanted to address it here. We should not be making concessions to other factions that are unnecessary, though exceptions should be made based on the situation at the time.

13) Maintain Lines of Communication: Important OOC and IC, we must always communicate with one another what we are doing, where we are going, etc, so that we all have a good idea of what's going on, when we need to post, etc.
If we're communicating IC, we can coordinate attacks, bombing runs, artillery strikes, etc. it makes our posts so much more effective to actually do this than for us to simply say we're doing it.

14) Posting Rhythm: We should always be posting in waves, setting a 1-1 ration between our posts and our adversaries. This ensures no one falls behind, with exceptions of course, and helps us maintain the integrity of our rhythm. This is crucial to maintaining a clear and easily read battle space. We let all of our enemies post, and then we all post ourselves, together. This also ensures we are on the same timeline throughout the entirety of the battle.
(This is of course less applicable to PvP)
 
#12 is the main reason I have stayed out of invasions. I post when I have a story to write, not on a timetable. Sometimes that means I post once a day for three days, and sometimes not at all for two weeks.

I'd love to participate in an invasion, but I'm not going to sacrifice the quality of my writing to do so. When I post, it should not only be to increase that number underneath my name, or push towards some arbitrary threshold, but to advance my character first and foremost, and secondarily to advance the story.

Maybe someday a faction on Chaos will host a 'slow-mo' invasion that will be ripe for people like me. Until then, I have little motivation to join one, as much as I'd love to for added participation and activity.
 
I think a lot of the OOC problems with the landing portion (including OS's complaint about the difficultly of following all of those posts) could be handled by changing the base rules about unit allocation. I'd suggest just giving a set number of "points" available to spend on units for an entire army, irregardless of player activity in the landing objective. In other words, the Republic army could field 5000 points, just as the OS army could field 5000 points.

In other words, asset location would work like fleeting currently does. Units wouldn't mysteriously disappear if their writer's did, which would give the battle a bit more consistency than Ord Mirit. Characters could still play a key role in giving their landing units an edge (just as they do in fleeting), but things wouldn't completely collapse if they weren't able to make a post, or if they quit, etc. In addition, for both the OS and GR side, it would free up writers who really want to do PVP rather than feel obligated to show up at a landing battle so that their side wouldn't outnumbered. With fewer writers then, it would be easier to keep track of the battle, make sure that everyone's on the same page (and thus keep drama down), and keep posting in a somewhat timely manner.
 
#15: An enemy that isn't a mini-army of power-hungry crazy psychos who can't afford to lose and bring their indestructible and unbeatable tech that is impervious even to death stars. Also it would help if they didn't get set up to win every time with endless objectives of PvP.

JUST SAYING! And I'm done.

I plan to have my characters more active in the faction (maybe if I say it, it will come true?) as far as builiding GR up. I still will not touch PvP with a 10 foot pole.
 
Pappy said:
[member="Ali Hadrix"]

As a Senior ranking enlisted soldier, I can most definitely help combat the Yuuzhan Vong technology.
We might want to do a thread about this, either training our soldiers specifically to deal with Vong, or to field test some new anti-Vong technology.

To the Vong technology standpoint, I did develop a new ground attack missile that disperses plank gas & sparkbee honey mist (a common Vong allergy) as well as a mobile shield generator (to protect our troops from future artillery barrages). I probably will also be submitting an anti-dovin basal weaponry based on the canon ball-bearing missile.

Is there anything else we need?
 
Coming from someone that's been a part of the One Sith and the Republic's race to defeat the Sith Empire, here's a few of my thoughts.

Ali Hadrix said:
Participation
I believe this is actually the most important thing on whether or not a Faction wins an Invasion. It's not so much a question of the amount of people, but more of the activity of the people participating.

For the most part, my accomplices and I managed to get the One Sith and Republic motivated to participated in Invasions by setting a clear goal and essentially branding it. The Faction was dedicated to that singular, well known goal - everything else became secondary and anything inhibiting it was discarded or changed so that it wouldn't. This was done out-of-character so that our time in roleplays could be dedicated to the main goal. This pretty much meant dedicated solely to Invasions once the war was underway.

We also thoroughly avoided as many extra rules on Invasions as possible. The more people are allowed to do as they wish, the more likely they are to participate. Plus, without spending a lot of time on the Rules and getting a large amount of feedback from a mountain of people, they're more likely to create exploitable situations than stop exploits.
 
To piggy back on Sabena's final paragraph. When you emphasize rules at the beginning of an invasion, you make the rules a focus of the invasion. It makes the invasion more about rules and trying to find ways to manipulate a victory due to the rules. Without rules you focus more on what happens in the RP rather than forcing measurables to exist.

I also think that having time limits on threads is a bad idea. Reason being is that when you set an artificial ending point it 1) puts an emphasis on activity at the very end (somewhat always true, but when you set a limit you can make pushes to influence an ending in a particular way more easily) 2) it does not allow for the story to end 3) necessitates rules to likely be what is required to determine the win. For instance: when reading the ending of the last Invasion many people came into the thread and were like "well the fights kind of just started or in the middle sooo draw I guess?" or they would concede some minor injury as a loss because they "took more damage." This is problematic because of obvious reasons, that draw could have been a win (or a loss) if time had gone by and a minor injury might have been insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Also, just because, let us say, that the Sith had a lot of 1v1 victories in an insignificant field it would not mean that they necessarily would win if the Republic had more strategically valuable victories.

Now, to that last point. I know people like to make certain places or set up objectives to start with before the thread. Those are not bad from a strategic planning standpoint, however, they should not be objectives that are set up in rules as a victory condition. Reason being, perhaps during the scope of a thread something arises that makes another objective appear. This is something I used to love doing when I RP'd on another board. I would try and wait to join a thread for a few days, see the lay of the land, and then look for an area that is being neglected but reasonably significant and go for it. One advantage of this is that sometimes you will fall through the cracks and you can solo an objective, and if you're good a pretty big one at that (once became king of Naboo as a Sith in a thread where the Jedi were winning. Basically ended that thread). And if you are opposed, that's awesome because it spreads your opponents out more too.
 
I'll chime in here :) why not? :p

So what I noticed in my time as a FA was that we typically failed in a number of realms.

1. Participation - We really had difficulty getting the same numbers of writers than our opponents (i.e., the OS). While we are the largest faction on the board, we are not full of very active writers. I am one such writer who is off and on with my activity level (my wife and I are having a baby, so RL if busy at the moment). The GR tends to field a stronger number of padawans than our opponents and not as many Masters/Knights. Why do I think this is? Partly the fact that we focus on training and taking our time in promoting writers while many other factions promote people after very little activity. I don't mean this as an insult to those factions, it may simply be a difference of opinion between ours and others.

2. Organization - We have sometimes had a lack of organization within our objectives. I think it would make sense in the future to have a member "assigned" to "lead" an objective. I think this makes sense, especially in NPC/Fleeting objectives. With regards to PvP, it should be more free-flowing, but perhaps an OOC leader to help coordinate.

3. Rules - I agree with a number of things proposed above. Rules happen with invasions, they have to. Invasions, while they should be about writing, end up being about winning. Without rules helping to govern things on both sides, you will end up with abuse. It is unavoidable.

4. Who we are? - We are the good guys. We are "classy." This I feel has hurt us. I'm not advocating that we stop acting "classy" but I am saying that we should have a discussion about who we want to be as a faction. I have, for some time, felt that on average our faction members are more willing to give damage than our opponents are to take it. Again, this is on average, there are always outliers on both sides. I feel that those who "win" in PvPs and in Invasions are those who are willing to fight dirty. So the question becomes do we want to be a faction that wins but losses sight of who we are, or do we want to stay true to our classiness and have a slightly more uphill struggle.

5. Offensiveness - Over the time I've been here, I feel that the GR has been too defensive. If you are invading, you can't lose. Invading a planet cost you nothing. The invader loses nothing but pride when they lose, whereas a defender must win to retain the planet.

What I've also noticed in my time as an FA here is that this is perhaps the greatest group of people to write with. We might not win as much as we'd like, we might not be the most effective at invasions. But I challenge you to find a group of writers on this board who writes better than us. We tell stories, and stories worth reading. I love seeing what everyone in this faction is working on and the stories that it continues to create.
 
Kian Karr said:
Rules - I agree with a number of things proposed above. Rules happen with invasions, they have to. Invasions, while they should be about writing, end up being about winning. Without rules helping to govern things on both sides, you will end up with abuse. It is unavoidable.

Rules allow for abuse. They inherently encourage trying to manipulate the field. Both side looks for ways to make the rules bend and work for them. The most simple and elegant rule and also the most fair is saying that the thread is fundamentally about PvP. This mitigates NPC shenanigans, as stupid posts like summoning a disease filled sarlaac sith spawn to insta-gib an entire base are instantly able to be told just what they are. While some aspect of allowance of PvE objective relevance still exists, it makes it very easy to just say "no, what you did was absurd."


Kian Karr said:
Who we are?
Literally the most important question any faction ever has to answer. Mission statements (whether clearly written or vaguely understood) are so important. They unite a faction under an idea and give them focus. The faction needs to make defeating the One Sith a significant goal. Dream big. Focus on going for the throat. Push back and try to knock them out of existence. If I know Sith factions, which I do very well (lead them a lot on another board), then when things get tough they start with a good amount of in fighting.
 
[member="Selena Halcyon"]

I agree with you in regards to PvP matches. When we've designated rules for invasions involving PvP we have done our best to set broad rules that don't limit things much. But invasions aren't entirely PvP and nor should they be. To make them all PvP we would be limited the RP experience of those who prefer fleeting or NPC ground battles. The nature of Fleeting and NPC forces require rules or else you will get some insane abuses. Rules will always be exploited or at least attempted to be. All you can really do is write sensible rules and try and hold people accountable to them.
 
Gir Quee said:
We might want to do a thread about this, either training our soldiers specifically to deal with Vong, or to field test some new anti-Vong technology.
Dreadguard are genetically engineered and modified to be the perfect soldier. Force Dead and loads of cybernetic implants. As for any gas based weaponry, here's some that I use fairly often.

For the shield generator technology, try using the Gungan shields from the Battle of Naboo for inspiration. They're large enough to be mounted, small enough to be mobile, and can connect with other generators to create a much larger wave. Slow-moving infantry can also enter it, which would be a perfectly suitable weakness.
 
Could design nanobots programmed to target Vong beasts, weaponry, etc.

From memory, it was used against Boba Fett to prevent him from accessing Mandalore lest he was eaten to shreds by the billions of nanobots in the atmosphere.

It's an effective solution. Any Vong beast would get torn apart if they tried bringing them out.
 
Pappy said:
Dreadguard are genetically engineered and modified to be the perfect soldier. Force Dead and loads of cybernetic implants. As for any gas based weaponry, here's some that I use fairly often.

For the shield generator technology, try using the Gungan shields from the Battle of Naboo for inspiration. They're large enough to be mounted, small enough to be mobile, and can connect with other generators to create a much larger wave. Slow-moving infantry can also enter it, which would be a perfectly suitable weakness.
The gungans did inspire me a bit when I created the Contegori-class Mobile Shield Generator. The new chemical delivery missile I was referring to is the Duster.

I read the Dreadguard submission in the Codex archives. Do you think there is anything we can do to make them (or a lesser version perhaps) available for us to regularly field? Obviously if we have PC players interested in RPing them again, that should be less of an issue...

Vigil-01 said:
Could design nanobots programmed to target Vong beasts, weaponry, etc.

From memory, it was used against Boba Fett to prevent him from accessing Mandalore lest he was eaten to shreds by the billions of nanobots in the atmosphere.

It's an effective solution. Any Vong beast would get torn apart if they tried bringing them out.
I like the idea, but I think it'll have to be carefully crafted to pass through the factory. I think it's an idea that's worth pursuing though. Would you be interested in working on it, either individually or as part of a group?
 
[member="Gir Quee"]
I could work on it as part of a group. One of the bonus's of my species is that we are naturally gifted at meddling with technology - because we are living technology.
 
Gir Quee said:
I read the Dreadguard submission in the Codex archives. Do you think there is anything we can do to make them (or a lesser version perhaps) available for us to regularly field? Obviously if we have PC players interested in RPing them again, that should be less of an issue...
I think all of the Cybernetic implants would be extremely possible. From the Cardio-Muscular package to the hi-sense enhanced eyes.
 
skin, bone, and arrogance
Speaking only from my experience, I can tell you that the complexity of these events is a major problem. I volunteered to be involved, but once I reviewed the thread, I knew there was no way I would be able to jump in since I had a difficult time following all the posts, each with special formatting, and maps, and videos, and headers, and other assorted folderol. That's perfectly fine -- I'm pleased if you're all pleased -- but the complexity is a major barrier to entry for people who would otherwise.

I know that it's perhaps necessary to establish things like maps and coordinates and whatnot to avoid whining down the line, but it will prevent people from feeling that they can be involved, particularly if they join after the thread has already gotten under way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom