Are Both Jedi and Sith Evil?

[Ellie Mors]

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D'aww

 

[Vorhi Alestrani]

Jedi are good, but often fail t think things through. The Sith are evil, but also short-sighted. Force sensitives in general seem to be absolutely terrible at thinking through the consequences of their actions, save for Palpatine. He actually had a plan.

 

[The Cyborg]

All Sith have plans.

Some are just more relaistic then others.

[member="Vorhi Alestrani"]

 

[Ellie Mors]

Bane thought up the plan to take over the Republic long before Palpatine did. So did nearly every other Sith after Bane.

The difference is that writers try to make a "bad as feth" villain and then feel it necessary to kill them off afterwards, thus giving some false conceptions of idiocy on the part of the sith.

Anyways, my post still stands. The Jedi are neither good nor evil, and the Sith are evil based on why they do what they do and what they do and how it is done.

 

[Moss]

Now in our world if you're devoid of human empathy and decency you might shrug your shoulders and claim a means to an end. Fine. But in a world where a supernatural connection between all living things not only exists, but has a "dark side" that feeds off the misery and hatred of others and is a corrupting influence that twists the minds of those it seduces, you're an evil person, regardless of how moralistically relative you try to weasel your way out of not having to feel a responsible for your actions.

That raised another, equally valid argument. Does the Force really have dark side? Or does it just unearth the animalistic nature of people? Maybe a little off-topic, but these discussions tend to branch out.

Assume there is no dark side of the Force or light side of the Force - just how much of it you indulge yourself in. Building totalitarian empires, enslaving races that threaten society, etc. These are just stepping stones on a morally righteous path to these people. A means to an end, if you will. The end? Order and security. A perfectly functioning society.

Now, I'm not in any way personally defending these kinds of things. To me, they're pretty awful. But to say that a faction like the Sith do things just for the sake of being evil isn't very inquisitive.

The Jedi might be evil to the Sith. The Sith might be evil to you. Genocide might be evil to me. I might be evil to a Puritan. So what is evil, exactly? Well, depends on who you ask.

 

[Asara Venter]

Does the Force really have dark side?

Yes, it does.

Assume there is no dark side of the Force or light side of the Force

That's a bit of a loaded question, isn't it? "Let's assume the environment that best facilitates my argument is the way it is..." isn't particularly sound. The "it's not evil - it depends on how you use it" has always been a rather arrogant and self-centred argument, in my opinion - projecting a belief that the energy field that connects all living things in the galaxy bends according to your intentions. (and I don't mean "your" as in you specifically, Astronomer) Unfortunately it's a position that's mostly been employed in video games and pencil and paper RPGs to allow the Jedi characters to have their cake and eat it too in regards to being a Jedi and eschewing the offensive power of the dark side.

 

[Moss]

That's a bit of a loaded question, isn't it? "Let's assume the environment that best facilitates my argument is the way it is..." isn't particularly sound. The "it's not evil - it depends on how you use it" has always been a rather arrogant and self-centred argument, in my opinion - projecting a belief that the energy field that connects all living things in the galaxy bends according to your intentions. (and I don't mean "your" as in you specifically, Astronomer) Unfortunately it's a position that's mostly been employed in video games and pencil and paper RPGs to allow the Jedi characters to have their cake and eat it too in regards to being a Jedi and eschewing the offensive power of the dark side.

Apologies if that was how I was interpreted. Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't believe the Force bends to the will of somebody. I also don't believe in the notion of a dark side or light side of the Force. I think the Force is a universal entity and doesn't conform to the petty good/evil spectrum devised by man. To assume that, I think, would be arrogant on the part of mankind.

I think that the Force naturally brings out instinctive, animalistic tendencies in man. The group that eventually became the Jedi realized this and therefore devised a code to restrict their access to it - what we refer to as the "light side". Those on the "dark side" totally fall into it. Passion. Hatred. Natural things like these are amplified to their purest form by the practitioners.

Hopefully this is making at least a little sense. I'm not the greatest at trying to put my thoughts into words.

 

[Asara Venter]

I think the Force is a universal entity and doesn't conform to the petty good/evil spectrum devised by man. To assume that, I think, would be arrogant on the part of mankind

Or sentient morality is an extension of the Force, rather than independent of it.

 

[Chilled Irishman]

"I'm not the greatest at trying to put my thoughts into words."

That's a Damn lie, Spigot. x3

 

[Cambry Owens]

This is going to be clumsy because I wrote it in skype, but here goes nothing.


That's actually a really good point, [member="The Astronomer"]
[12:31:03 AM] SamSakurai: It's not that the Jedi = Good/Light and the Sith = Dark/Evil
[12:32:30 AM] SamSakurai: It's that the Jedi = Order/Discipline/Restraint
and the Sith = Chaos/Emotion/Rampantness.
[12:32:40 AM] SamSakurai: Not the words I wanted to use but the good ones won't come to me.


The Dark side, like Amorality, is the easy choice. the default choice, even. It's the unbridled side, the side that makes no effort to minimalize or regulate or organanize, they just use and act according to their freedom.
[12:35:45 AM] SamSakurai: The "Light side" is when you put more effort into disciplining yourself in it's use, for a more...controlled, directed, self-controlled aspect. Something harder to attain, but in some people's eyes, more worthwhile and valuable.
[12:35:55 AM] SamSakurai: Anyone can really be a sith.

Being a Jedi is far harder. It's why so many fail and fall away.
[12:36:16 AM] SamSakurai: And why the really cool Jedi are total badasses that everyone loves.



[12:36:50 AM] SamSakurai: The Sith are right. The Dark side is more powerful. But is power really the focus? Is it really worth it?

(A friend wondered why the Jedi don't just use force lighting, remarking how it won't instantly turn them dark or anything.)

[12:37:32 AM] SamSakurai: Well, when you channel that energy, that inherent energy that you've taken so long to focus and shape, and channel it into something that uncontrolled, that wrathful, you're losing your integrity.


Just my two cents. It's incoherent, I know. Just wanted to throw it up there.

 

[Asara Venter]

I'd argue that the Sith possess just as much discipline as the Jedi. Where the Jedi need discipline to resist their emotions and basal urges, the Sith require discipline in order to remain in control and "ride the wave", so to speak so that they do not become slaves to their passions. In addition both groups require the discipline that any order of philosopher-warrior-priests would require as far as daily routines of sparing, learning techniques and practicing ones control in the Force. I've never really bought into the portrayal of various sith in literature and games as little more than whimsical, boastful, violent idiots that indulge whatever strikes their fancy at the time with no thought as to the consequences. Such morons would not survive long in the cut-throat environment of the training academies, let alone the incredibly dangerous environment of the Star Wars universe at large.

 

[Ak'lya]

The Force is weird. Pages could be done on that topic alone. And I mean pages. But if both Jedi and Sith are evil?

No.

No, because Sith, and the dark side, are there to BE evil. There isn't a way around that. They are meant to be the evil in the galaxy. The entire point of them is to be a villain. I challenge you to find, in canon, a "good" sith by most standards. Star Wars is a space opera at heart. There isn't the moral grey there many arguments rely on. Not until someone sees it there.

The Force, as it was presented in the movies, is very Zoroastrian. While Light and Darkness have always been in the force, neither is stronger or weaker. They will fight, they will clash, but there will always be one side. The Sith were made to be the contrast of a good protagonist (Luke).

Once the Force becomes something more than that, you step away from the heart of what it originally was: a black-and white world.

 

[Moss]

I've never really bought into the portrayal of various sith in literature and games as little more than whimsical, boastful, violent idiots that indulge whatever strikes their fancy at the time with no thought as to the consequences. Such morons would not survive long in the cut-throat environment of the training academies, let alone the incredibly dangerous environment of the Star Wars universe at large.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. This is the most correct thing I've seen all day.

 

[Noah Corek]

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https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1972707930/hawkward.jpg

 

[Ayden Cater]

Jedi are good.

Sith are evil.

End of discussion.

 

[Moss]

[member="Ayden Cater"]

Except for that time they committed mass genocide against the Sith species. :lol:

 

[Darth Carnifex]

[member="Ayden Cater"]

Except for that time they committed mass genocide against the Sith species. :lol:

And if you look closely you'll see that it was the Republic, not the Jedi, who carried out the Sith Holocaust.

#NeverForget

 

[Moss]

And if you look closely you'll see that it was the Republic, not the Jedi, who carried out the Sith Holocaust.

#NeverForget

"It was at this moment that the Republic made what might now be considered a mistake: the Sith no longer posed a threat to the Republic, but the Supreme Chancellor was unsatisfied. Jedi and Republic forces were sent to Korriban and other Sith planets to ensure no remnants of the Sith Empire remained."

Source.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

"It was at this moment that the Republic made what might now be considered a mistake: the Sith no longer posed a threat to the Republic, but the Supreme Chancellor was unsatisfied. Jedi and Republic forces were sent to Korriban and other Sith planets to ensure no remnants of the Sith Empire remained."

Source.

That doesn't change that it was the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic who ordered the holocaust, not the Jedi.

I'm sure there were Jedi who were involved, but at the end of the day it was the Republic who was the primary culprit.

 

[Moss]

[member="Darth Vornskr"]

Agreed, though I think to plainly say that Jedi are always good and Sith are always bad would be incorrect.