sabrina
Well-Known Member
http://whatculture.com/film/star-wars-10-reasons-galactic-empire-wasnt-bad-everyone-thinks.php
was the empire truly evil?
was the empire truly evil?
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Disciple
Dr. What
This thread should be dead
why isn't it dead
why isn't it dead
Jsc
Disney's Princess
Be Sabrina continues to vocalize her personal opinions of the Sith agenda in public. And while many of us view her comments, (and the comments of like-minded individuals); as vain, silly, uneducated, and generically unimaginative? The current Website Administration feels no need to lock a topic simply because humans have disagreed upon the interpretation of a fictional narrative.Disciple said:
TL;DL: Because LULZ.
Q: Are Sith Evil?
A: Evil is a matter of perspective.
A: Evil is a matter of perspective.
*sighs*sabrina said:
Lelani Sevestra
Hapes Consortium Building Subsidiary - Warden
[member="Aaralyn Rekali"] Message me you look interesting.. I could care less about anyone outside the Consortium light or dark.
Eternal Father
*Genocide intensifies*
Fabula Caromed
Belle of the Brawl
OMH this thread is still going on. That makes me giggle. XD
I'm not feeling that happy about it.Fabula Cavataio said:
Ludolf Vaas
"Trust me"
Just something to think about:
Contrast the Star Wars universe with something like the Warhammer universe, which is chock full of cryptofascist philosophy. The general protagonists in Warhammer actually behave very similarly to the Sith and Empire in Star Wars, who are, as we know, supposed to be viewed as "bad guys". But in Warhammer they are not considered evil, instead their behavior is generally seen as justified by the harsh realities of the universe in which they exist.
I will again denounce the claim I keep seeing that evil is a matter of perspective - no, evil is objectively real and quantifiable. But values are dependent upon who writes the story.
Contrast the Star Wars universe with something like the Warhammer universe, which is chock full of cryptofascist philosophy. The general protagonists in Warhammer actually behave very similarly to the Sith and Empire in Star Wars, who are, as we know, supposed to be viewed as "bad guys". But in Warhammer they are not considered evil, instead their behavior is generally seen as justified by the harsh realities of the universe in which they exist.
I will again denounce the claim I keep seeing that evil is a matter of perspective - no, evil is objectively real and quantifiable. But values are dependent upon who writes the story.
Exactly. And Sith were written to be evil...Ludolf Vaas said:
Ludolf Vaas
"Trust me"
Yup. By all accounts, the Human Imperium in Warhammer 40K is evil by Star Wars standards. It's a totalitarian dictatorship that willfully partakes in human sacrifice, racial heirarchy, and hyper-militarism. I think there are even some eugenics thrown in. All things that the Jedi and Republic would have an aneurism over.
But Star Wars projects what is essentially every liberal's wet dream onto space. Aliens are friendly, helpful, open to negotiation... they may look different, but they're just like us. I always imagine if the Human Imperium of Warhammer behaved like the Republic in Star Wars. They'd be the first of the galactic superpowers to be killed or subjugated.
But Star Wars projects what is essentially every liberal's wet dream onto space. Aliens are friendly, helpful, open to negotiation... they may look different, but they're just like us. I always imagine if the Human Imperium of Warhammer behaved like the Republic in Star Wars. They'd be the first of the galactic superpowers to be killed or subjugated.
No! It was a lovely horse! :OJay Scott Clark said:
WHYYYY?
Sic transit gloria mundi
[member="Ludolf Vaas"]
Kill the alien, burn the heretic, purge the unclean! For the God-Emperor!
Kill the alien, burn the heretic, purge the unclean! For the God-Emperor!
Sugar
Let's Have a Little Fun
Huh. This old chestnut popped up again, primarily because I'm awake at the lousier hours of the morning.
To be frank, the Sith code encourages selfishness above all else.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Note the language here. All first-person. All about self-empowerment, and self-support. Taking what you want. Following your intent--whatever that may be--and being victorious in it. As a mantra, it's entirely centered on the self.
Now let's look at the Jedi code (Odann-urr's version) for comparison:
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony. (this line is edited out at times, but is not considered apocryphal)
There is no death, there is the Force.
Well, to be frank, this whole discussion feels more about law vs chaos than good against evil. Sith are, by their own code, individuals driven by passion. to follow the code is to follow the desire of the self--to do what one wants, and seek freedom above all else. The Jedi, instead, have a more legalistic and rigid mindset. They restrain what they feel, hold back, and restrain their desires for what they believe is the will of the force.
Now, this is where it gets a bit tricky. You see, these codes don't create evil behavior, but both can condone it. So, then, why are sith so commonly found killing and pillaging, wreaking havoc and raising hell? Well, that has to do with another issue altogether--the emotions used in the Force. The "sides" used in the force.
The light side and dark sides of the force are kind of clunky, but mechanically, they are aspects of the force keyed to certain emotional behaviors. The dark side thrives on anger, rage, passion, fear and general hatred. The light side tends to thrive on compassion, mercy, self-sacrifice, and other positive emotions. So the Dark side is corrupting. Okay, that's a thing. Now, can the dark side corrupt non-sith? Well, yes. We've got plenty of dark-siders in the universe who were wizards, sorcerors, adepts, and not Sith in either philosophy or discipline.
This produces another question. A harder question. Can a Sith follow the teachings of the Sith and be a light-sider? Can a Sith practice philosophy of his teachings without the Dark Side?
Theoretically, I'd wager that's a yes. You could be a Sith and not be a Dark-sider. You can wish for your own freedom, use power to free yourself and serve your desires, deny the idea of inner spiritual harmony, and still be a compassionate, benevolent person. Would it make for a strange, almost alien Sith compared to what the standard on this board is? Abso-fraggin-lutely, friendo.
And the weird thing is that it apparently happened before. Mutiple times.
So, to answer your question of Sith being evil, the answer is a half-hearted one at best: The Dark side is evil. Most Sith follow the Dark Side, but one does not have to follow the Dark Side to be evil. The Dark Side isn't always a Sith thing, and the Stih aren't always darksiders. Traditionally, historically, typically, yes, but, there are exceptions. My Sith character, Olom Grihk, is not such an exception, but it may exist on the site. It definitely has existed at a few points in canon, apparently. But I haven't hung out with them yet, I think.
To be frank, the Sith code encourages selfishness above all else.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Note the language here. All first-person. All about self-empowerment, and self-support. Taking what you want. Following your intent--whatever that may be--and being victorious in it. As a mantra, it's entirely centered on the self.
Now let's look at the Jedi code (Odann-urr's version) for comparison:
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony. (this line is edited out at times, but is not considered apocryphal)
There is no death, there is the Force.
Well, to be frank, this whole discussion feels more about law vs chaos than good against evil. Sith are, by their own code, individuals driven by passion. to follow the code is to follow the desire of the self--to do what one wants, and seek freedom above all else. The Jedi, instead, have a more legalistic and rigid mindset. They restrain what they feel, hold back, and restrain their desires for what they believe is the will of the force.
Now, this is where it gets a bit tricky. You see, these codes don't create evil behavior, but both can condone it. So, then, why are sith so commonly found killing and pillaging, wreaking havoc and raising hell? Well, that has to do with another issue altogether--the emotions used in the Force. The "sides" used in the force.
The light side and dark sides of the force are kind of clunky, but mechanically, they are aspects of the force keyed to certain emotional behaviors. The dark side thrives on anger, rage, passion, fear and general hatred. The light side tends to thrive on compassion, mercy, self-sacrifice, and other positive emotions. So the Dark side is corrupting. Okay, that's a thing. Now, can the dark side corrupt non-sith? Well, yes. We've got plenty of dark-siders in the universe who were wizards, sorcerors, adepts, and not Sith in either philosophy or discipline.
This produces another question. A harder question. Can a Sith follow the teachings of the Sith and be a light-sider? Can a Sith practice philosophy of his teachings without the Dark Side?
Theoretically, I'd wager that's a yes. You could be a Sith and not be a Dark-sider. You can wish for your own freedom, use power to free yourself and serve your desires, deny the idea of inner spiritual harmony, and still be a compassionate, benevolent person. Would it make for a strange, almost alien Sith compared to what the standard on this board is? Abso-fraggin-lutely, friendo.
And the weird thing is that it apparently happened before. Mutiple times.
So, to answer your question of Sith being evil, the answer is a half-hearted one at best: The Dark side is evil. Most Sith follow the Dark Side, but one does not have to follow the Dark Side to be evil. The Dark Side isn't always a Sith thing, and the Stih aren't always darksiders. Traditionally, historically, typically, yes, but, there are exceptions. My Sith character, Olom Grihk, is not such an exception, but it may exist on the site. It definitely has existed at a few points in canon, apparently. But I haven't hung out with them yet, I think.
Toxarien
Character
The Sith DO encourage selfishness, but their main message is one of individual power, that equality is a lie, and the strong will always rule the weak. That is true. But they go so far into the goal that every individual begins to think that they are the strong and all the weak ones should follow them. This means infighting, murder and all sorts of evil things will follow. The Sith go from crazy to evil.
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