Balancing Reportabellions

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Tefka"]

Just because drugs are popular, doesn't mean people should be allowed to hurt themselves and others to feed their drama addiction.

 

[Tefka]

[member="Captain Larraq"]

Right on, man. Well, you keep doing you.

 

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Tefka"]

I don't know, I've been awake for a while. I was trying to make a clever analogy... something about how... just because people flock to something, doesn't mean it is in their best interest to do so and maybe it's not a good idea to leave them with easy access to it.

Maybe Chaos thrives on Admins allowing the members to get dramatic and have fights and conflict... Maybe access to bad decisions is what helps build interest and sucks people in... And maybe it doesn't.


Also, I saw your original post. So meh.

 

[LT-137]

Single planets would work if the old dominion-style was kicking around, and has been done before - ala the FO and Kaeshana, but that seems kinda silly now.

 

[Fatty]

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"], I feel like it went the way of the Galactic Nomad, as that's the only way I could really see them engaging again with Hoth and later Endor. After losing the Invasion of Hoth, they jumped ship and claimed some territory near Endor so they could properly invade After they won that battle, they just started winning and winning like the Chaos GA vs One Sith

[member="Alexandra Feanor"] makes an excellent point, and solely for that reason, I retract my statement and my support for this suggestion.

 

[Reverance]

The biggest question has always been, to me: How do we stop the OOC-troll/hate fueled Rebellions while promoting the organically fun Rebellions (and even more, make them more enticing to partake in instead of an "gdi not this again"). My answer/suggestion? You Don't.

It's interesting that people are taking this as a fact, like the trollism/hate is so ingrained in this community that there is simply nothing that can be done about it. Sort of says something about where the map game has taken the site.

Maybe it's the wrong place for [member="Cira"]'s suggestion, but maybe it something worth discussing.

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

Hmm. Maybe I should throw in my two cents.

Maybe you should have rebellions require a build-up from that minor faction. Have them be the culmination of a campaign and make minor factions work for it, instead of simply throwing it around out of the blue. Kinda' like the SSD restrictions, they'd require a certain number of skirmish threads to occur between the major and minor factions, before a full-on rebellion could be launched.

 

[Karacan Rigten]

I have to agree with [member="Cira"] actually, bait or not. A big problem with Rebellions and drama on this board are, wait for it, the map game.

I know a number of people who not only come here strictly/mainly for the map, but also create bad blood over it. The problem with most Rebellions being out of drama, and not about story, is because of the map game. It exists solely for those who want control and/or to show their pride.

I get it, strategy is fun. I love strategy, but the map game really almost entirely steals from the roleplay part of the board. Strategy doesn't even half work. NPC armies are handwaved, and they don't count to a victory. Literally a few people posting slowly without any solid objective can stall, win, or draw the ending.

Removing the influence cloud might actually deter those who are only on this board for the hex, and bring stories to the galaxy at large in the way of factions and war. Because all it is right now is a lot of hate and drama.

I literally don't get involved with major factions heavily and have made a plan to only support minor factions. They have more opportunities for story and adventure. A Major Faction has to stop all plans to guarantee activity by vying for control of the map.

And may I see it's a little silly? The map game is set up like Call of Duty, if CoD required you to play unless you slowly lose your ranks. You literally have to fight or dominion new hexes/planets like every week/month to stay Major. Not every faction wants to control the galaxy, Admins. But then they get forced into activity checks and the factions ideals are misunderstood because they keep putting their flags every and dominating places.

[member="Definitely Not Tefka"]

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

[member="Ferron Troste"] I'll have to disagree on this one. I feel like the map game can be really great if done right and for the right reasons and helps a lot with worldbuilding.

In the end, it doesn't really matter how many rules and control systems the admins put in or remove, some people are just bad apples. And they will continue to be bad apples, regardless of the situation. OOC drama would arise from anything else, even if influence clouds were removed. Getting rid of influence clouds would only restrict RP possibilities by killing major factions or making things chaotic and confusing.

As someone who has been an admin on another site, I can tell you with a fair degree of certainty that people will find reasons to create drama, no matter what guidelines and rules you introduce. Even if influence clouds were removed, people who want to create drama, will find a way to do so. It may take a day, a week or a month, but before long, we'll be back to square one and all we'd have achieved would be to effectively kill major factions, while not solving any actual problems.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

I gotta throw my own two cents in.

I'd very much suggest that, you shouldn't make minor factions only capable of one rebellion. Cause, not everybody wants to play the map-game full on. Sometimes just a little taste is fine. And honestly, this just sounds limiting​ and the opposite of what attracts writers to Chaos.

Limitations, have been stripped away more and more from Chaos. And this is a good thing, this suggestion is the wrong direction.

I'd also, be all for removing the Influence Clouds. In lots of ways, the influence clouds; the 'Map-Game' is a chore more than anything. It breeds drama, and a fickle and fake sense of importance that kinda takes away from the fun of writing.

It places a sense of importance wrongfully on certain people over others, and that affects OOC just as much as IC.

Like, I understand working hard to have more control. But shouldn't your 'hard-work' be used instead for just solely creating awesome stories? I feel like, without the map-game. Chaos becomes a better place.


PS. And on the note of removing the Map-Game killing Majors, I think that's a silly assumption. If an influence cloud, is the only thing keeping a group of people together, that's kinda sad. Write together because its FUN, not because it puts you in the most popular or powerful faction.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

Removing influence clouds would kill major factions because it'd make things confusing. Who controls what? What do you do when two major factions claim the same planets as their territory? It splits the community into groups that pretend that the other one doesn't exist.

Getting rid of this, may be fine for people who write solo adventurers. But for those writing statesmen, admirals and officials within a nation, it would be severely limiting. Drama will occur regardless of influence clouds or major/minor status (and it has). Removing influence clouds would only severely restrict what kinds of stories can be written, while not solving any problems.

Afterall, no one is compelled to participate in the map game. Those who don't like it, can simply not join major factions and do their own thing. The map game/major faction stuff is only there for those who want to do that kind of thing. It doesn't impede others' ability or opportunity to write their own stories.

EDIT: Accidentally pressed post.

 

[Karacan Rigten]

[member="Darth Tacitus"]

Well, to be technical, I didn't suggest removing the "map game," just rework it. Removing the cloud was a suggestion that it might help. Yes, if done properly, it can create a plethora of opportunities. But removing it entirely wouldn't restrict any roleplay possibilities, I think that statement goes too far.

You don't need your color plastered on a hex for any reason to have fun roleplaying. I've not touched Major Faction stuff since I've made this character. Sure, I'm doing company stuff, but off this character I did an outrageous amount of story without involving a Major Faction. I mean, I made a force religion. Although it's nigh unheard of and meh, but I didn't need the map game at all.

Unfortunately, I had to move my castle, city, station, everything I ever made, and move it into a protected (major faction territory) due to hostilities, bad blood, drama, and harassment, that was due to the map game. That... that restricted my roleplaying possibilities. I had to put roleplaying, or growth, on hold for at least a month.


I still question how removing colors from the map kills Major Factions, unless the only purpose for Major Factions is conquering the galaxy. And if that is their sole purpose I feel it's really unnecessary to have Major Factions in that way.

 

[Karacan Rigten]

Thanks double post

Delete plz

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

[member="Ferron Troste"] I understand your point, but that kind of drama could have happened regardless of influence clouds. People with a chip on their shoulders can do all manner of things to get rid of a character/faction they don't like, ranging from skirmish spams, to whatever else crosses your mind. Influence clouds serve as a book-keeping means, one to draw lines where one major faction's territory ends and another begins, to avoid confusing situations of nobody knowing who controls what.

Could the current situation be improved? Most likely, yes. But not by removing influence clouds. I think the admins here are doing a great job at keeping the overall peace and balance and the systems we currently have, do not need removing and replacing with something that is 100% freeform and confusing. As long as people can group together and roleplay a nation, there needs to be a system to keep track of and sort everything, otherwise you run into problems of where is what and who controls what. This is why it'd kill major factions.

EDIT: My point is, no matter what systems you add or remove, people with enough of a grudge and determination to ruin someone else's day, will find a way to circumvent them.

 

[Karacan Rigten]

[member="Darth Tacitus"]

You know, the most the Empire did was go "hey, this is my side of the galaxy. If you wanna come over here, we got border control." They didn't paint everything black, gray, or white, or whatever color floats your boat, sure, pink. They also put Ships in sectors to show their authority. They also didn't bring EVERY ship they owned to one battle because they were keeping a HOLD on that patrolled/protected territory.

And you want to know a problem with "who owns what confusion" issue? It doesn't matter. On this board, it just, I'm sorry, I'm really sorry, but it couldn't matter any less. No player is forced to interact with another. No player is forced to interact with any faction. If a jedi wants a private thread on a sith capital, they can do it!

I'm not suggesting you ignore groups of players, I'm saying it's done all the time! Intentionally or not. If I want to interact with a faction, I look them up, see who I can talk to, communicate and discuss how a thread should go. Otherwise, the information is a given. Doing a rebellion, dominion, or invasion? It's known what the territory is.


EDIT: A Faction can keep its own records, it's not hard.

Territory:
Coruscant - link to thread
- units stationed in sector, starbases

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

I don't see how it's restricting, at all. I don't see how it would be limiting for people writing those sort of characters, you can still have space battles ect. You can still rule over planets if you want, but what I mean is like I said the map game can be like a chore for I'm sure plenty of people.

All the things possible through influence clouds, is possible without them. Dominions, invasions ect. It's just further self policing, which we already do very well.

On another note, the solution of 'you don't like it, don't partake' when 90% of the community does it. Is not a solution. And, like [member="Ferron Troste"] said; the only real reason I can see for the possibility of the removal of clouds killing Major Factions is that they exist purely for some sense of 'power' or 'superiority' through the Map-Game.


Suggestion:

Perhaps, replace Influence clouds with placed 'such and such forces' on certain areas of the map. Instead of this monopoly of control, its just like some battleship style icon that shows that their ships or troops are in that area. That way, you can move about if necessary and it's also a show of where you're strongest.

I'll note I'll probably haven't thought it through completely, but I needed to put it out there.

 

[Riamah]

I don't feel allowing a minor faction to hold only one rebellion is a good thing. When my faction did one last month on AE when they were recalled is the example I'm going to use. We did it fully for story purposes and had no intention of using a win (if it's even judged) to go major. As a faction, we are not ready to get invested in the map game. ​

What I could see is a limit on timing. If a minor faction looses a rebellion, then they have to rebuild before another can be initiated.

Now I am a proponent of the map game. It's something that makes Chaos unique to me.

Some people, factions-major and minor are the kind to stir up drama. That is something that comes with the territory. The more people involved, the more likely that salt is going to be there, it can't be fully avoided.

It is the view of many that major factions are an e-peen measuring contest. I agree with Tacitus that removing the hexes that show what a faction holds is a poor idea. (measuring contest or not) Major factions and the map are something needed, in my opinion. It provides a clear line that indicates the lay of the land. Helps people decide where in the galaxy they want to be/write. As well as giving them a direction to go or avoid.

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

[member="Ferron Troste"]

It matters solely from a logistical perspective. Of course people can still do their private threads wherever they like and have their adventures however they like, in accordance with the rules. On a similar note, people who only want to do that, are in no way forced to participate in the invasions/skirmishes/doms that occur.

Additionally, in any community where a certain space is shared, you are bound to run into unforeseen situations like what you mentioned about your company. Stories intersect, characters will sometimes clash for a huge variety of reasons. It happens. One can feel let down by this, or work with/around it to add to the story.

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

@Ra'a'mah

E-peen measuring contests will happen, regardless of influence clouds or factions. Some people are simply into that and will find some way of doing it, whether it be codex, factory, the map game, factions, public threads, likes, what have you.