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Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Fanning The Flame - Dogpilie Invasions
- Thread starter Kahlil Noble
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Lord of Eternal Conflict
[member="Tathra Khaeus"]
Often times it is as simple as black and white. People lurk in other faction's discords all the time just to see if they say anything bad or try to stir poodoo against another faction/writer, it's why people have been exposed for the things they've said and are asked to be held accountable. IC and OOC should never be taken as interchangeable as it is being interpreted now. I haven't seen an invasion done for purely OOC reasons(Hehe let's go kark on these guys because we feel like it) as a result of OOC politics in a long time if at all. There has always been an IC catalyst or reason to result in an invasion being declared.
Counter invasions against smaller factions is, I agree in poor taste, but it serves to not let someone off scott free into thinking they can get away with something with no repercussions. Take the CIS counter invasion against the UCM made. They only declared that invasion because they are allies to the SJO whom the UCM have declared an invasion against as well as the results of prior threads. It would reflect poorly on them to not come to their allies aid while also having the reason of attacking one of the few factions they are in hostile relations with. Retaliation comes swiftly and the Jen'ari should have been example enough to not try prodding at the CIS or its allies less they suffer the potential for retaliation. But this also raises another point - It still doesn't matter who is the bigger faction because invasions are never judged based on who has the bigger army/better fighters. It is judged upon who wrote the better story which anyone is capable of. Take the TSE/ORC invasion - The TSE have a significantly larger IC army and fleet, but we still lost because the ORC managed to write a slightly better story than we did. And to that I say that is a victory well deserved.
I for one see this as an opportunity for the more politically inclined characters from either faction to run a negotiation thread/plotline to broker a temporary or lasting peace between them (During the invasion) so that in the future, once the invasion ends or it can be agreed to a stalemate as a result of these negotiations will help pad involved factions for the future.
Often times it is as simple as black and white. People lurk in other faction's discords all the time just to see if they say anything bad or try to stir poodoo against another faction/writer, it's why people have been exposed for the things they've said and are asked to be held accountable. IC and OOC should never be taken as interchangeable as it is being interpreted now. I haven't seen an invasion done for purely OOC reasons(Hehe let's go kark on these guys because we feel like it) as a result of OOC politics in a long time if at all. There has always been an IC catalyst or reason to result in an invasion being declared.
Counter invasions against smaller factions is, I agree in poor taste, but it serves to not let someone off scott free into thinking they can get away with something with no repercussions. Take the CIS counter invasion against the UCM made. They only declared that invasion because they are allies to the SJO whom the UCM have declared an invasion against as well as the results of prior threads. It would reflect poorly on them to not come to their allies aid while also having the reason of attacking one of the few factions they are in hostile relations with. Retaliation comes swiftly and the Jen'ari should have been example enough to not try prodding at the CIS or its allies less they suffer the potential for retaliation. But this also raises another point - It still doesn't matter who is the bigger faction because invasions are never judged based on who has the bigger army/better fighters. It is judged upon who wrote the better story which anyone is capable of. Take the TSE/ORC invasion - The TSE have a significantly larger IC army and fleet, but we still lost because the ORC managed to write a slightly better story than we did. And to that I say that is a victory well deserved.
I for one see this as an opportunity for the more politically inclined characters from either faction to run a negotiation thread/plotline to broker a temporary or lasting peace between them (During the invasion) so that in the future, once the invasion ends or it can be agreed to a stalemate as a result of these negotiations will help pad involved factions for the future.
But I Am Free
[member="Kor Vexen"]
Which, again. Can be represented Ic without making multiple invasions take place at the same time OOC. The IC timeline is crazy maluable. You can have that story easy peasy without pushing the other factions writers OOC to the brink by overwhelming them.
It's purely OOC to have the invasions at the same time. It doesn't change the IC story at all, just how the OOC is handled.
Which, again. Can be represented Ic without making multiple invasions take place at the same time OOC. The IC timeline is crazy maluable. You can have that story easy peasy without pushing the other factions writers OOC to the brink by overwhelming them.
It's purely OOC to have the invasions at the same time. It doesn't change the IC story at all, just how the OOC is handled.
THE UNDEFEATED
[member="Kor Vexen"]
I understand where you're coming from. But that sense of retaliation and ect from the CIS & its allies should be ICly enforced, and OOCly discussed for the benefit of both parties. There can be plenty repercussions, but it doesn't have to have this dogpiling mentality applied to it. The CIS can invade them straight after this one, and again and again.
And the ORC/TSE invasion was incredibly collaborative, a beautiful sight; genuinely. But, that isn't whats happening here. The environment produced by the good sportsmanship between the ORC & TSE allowed for that. That isn't whats going on here.
Also on that note, the CIS is on good OOC terms with the SJO and has a pact with the TSE. Why can't the TSE and CIS fight? There's nothing in the IC that cannot be undone by evil sithiness or such. There is nothing stopping either of the big factions from opening themselves up to more enemies.
Play with your friends, fight your friends. Kill your friends. Have fun. There's nothing stopping them.
I understand where you're coming from. But that sense of retaliation and ect from the CIS & its allies should be ICly enforced, and OOCly discussed for the benefit of both parties. There can be plenty repercussions, but it doesn't have to have this dogpiling mentality applied to it. The CIS can invade them straight after this one, and again and again.
And the ORC/TSE invasion was incredibly collaborative, a beautiful sight; genuinely. But, that isn't whats happening here. The environment produced by the good sportsmanship between the ORC & TSE allowed for that. That isn't whats going on here.
Also on that note, the CIS is on good OOC terms with the SJO and has a pact with the TSE. Why can't the TSE and CIS fight? There's nothing in the IC that cannot be undone by evil sithiness or such. There is nothing stopping either of the big factions from opening themselves up to more enemies.
Play with your friends, fight your friends. Kill your friends. Have fun. There's nothing stopping them.
S O V E R E I G N
[member="Kahlil Zambrano"], The map game is OOC. It was started for the pure idea of having something shiny to look at. Showing that this faction is bigger than the other one. Its an element of PvP for the pure aesthetic of the faction. Otherwise, We would be having no map game, where each faction stayed on whatever planets they wanted too.
The Map game is controlled by OOC tactics used with IC circumstance, and IC story. There will ALWAYS be OOC tactics used no matter what form of the map there is.
The Map game is controlled by OOC tactics used with IC circumstance, and IC story. There will ALWAYS be OOC tactics used no matter what form of the map there is.
WolfMortum
OOC Account
[member="Kahlil Zambrano"]
How is the Map-game not similar to a War-Game when considering the fact we have Invasions, Territories and Faction rivalries?
For certain factions, war is their greatest method of expansion.
The same rules apply to everyone here, as stated in my previous post.
These same tactics have been used against the Faction I'm presently in, in the past. By some of the very people who are complaining now.
Whether you want to admit it or not, every Faction started with the same chances of success and failure. It's the effort that people have put into their stories, faction relations and threads that have led us to the point we're seeing currently.
How is the Map-game not similar to a War-Game when considering the fact we have Invasions, Territories and Faction rivalries?
For certain factions, war is their greatest method of expansion.
The same rules apply to everyone here, as stated in my previous post.
These same tactics have been used against the Faction I'm presently in, in the past. By some of the very people who are complaining now.
Whether you want to admit it or not, every Faction started with the same chances of success and failure. It's the effort that people have put into their stories, faction relations and threads that have led us to the point we're seeing currently.
THE UNDEFEATED
[member="Veiere Arenais"]
I gotta disagree there bud. The Chiss Ascendancy or any small niche by no stretch of the imagination started with the same chances as the Confed of Independent Systems. Niches die because only large open and easy platforms thrive. That's not something I condone.
I gotta disagree there bud. The Chiss Ascendancy or any small niche by no stretch of the imagination started with the same chances as the Confed of Independent Systems. Niches die because only large open and easy platforms thrive. That's not something I condone.
Lord of Eternal Conflict
[member="Kahlil Zambrano"]
Chalk it up to being a matter of time. It's summer and a lot of the writers have a lot more free time that they can afford to spend writing. A lot of writers in the months before were simply too busy to right because of things like school/finals/etc. The more that can be packed into the summer the better, that is how I interpret it as. If these invasions were to be petered out one after the other rather than concurrently, then it will result in a lot less getting done while people are available to.
[member="Tathra Khaeus"]
Be that as it may, it still doesn't change that the results of the invasions are solely based on who writes the better story and maintains minimal drama outside the thread during the invasion. For the ME it is an opportunity to show that they can shine and thrive in the face of adversity, as should be expected of Mandalorians who are proud and ready to fight to uphold their culture/beliefs. For the opposition it is a chance to get back at them for the crimes they believe the ME has committed.
Chalk it up to being a matter of time. It's summer and a lot of the writers have a lot more free time that they can afford to spend writing. A lot of writers in the months before were simply too busy to right because of things like school/finals/etc. The more that can be packed into the summer the better, that is how I interpret it as. If these invasions were to be petered out one after the other rather than concurrently, then it will result in a lot less getting done while people are available to.
[member="Tathra Khaeus"]
Be that as it may, it still doesn't change that the results of the invasions are solely based on who writes the better story and maintains minimal drama outside the thread during the invasion. For the ME it is an opportunity to show that they can shine and thrive in the face of adversity, as should be expected of Mandalorians who are proud and ready to fight to uphold their culture/beliefs. For the opposition it is a chance to get back at them for the crimes they believe the ME has committed.
THE UNDEFEATED
[member="Kor Vexen"]
That's entirely correct. But, prevailing as such can be harder when your attention is divided. I'm solely saying, there's better ways of achieving the same things.
That's entirely correct. But, prevailing as such can be harder when your attention is divided. I'm solely saying, there's better ways of achieving the same things.
S O V E R E I G N
[member="Tathra Khaeus"], [member="Kahlil Zambrano"], Lets not forget to mention how one of the Faction Admins of the UMC made a single post, PUBLIC thread asking for other people to not post, because they wanted to clear the planet. When there are NO IC presidence for the UMC to know about the CIS attacking them.
This is an aspect of the OOC game you guys are so beating upon like a dead horse. They are playing the OOC game. They have made no threads about being spies or working against the CIS. Yet somehow they know they are attacking? The UMC is attacking the SJO because of the SJO/CIS/ORC/CIC's thread in which they gather together to talk about attacking the Mandalorians. There are NO SPIES in the thread. No posts about spying on them. No post within the Mandalorians have ever mentioned this being a reason for them attacking. Yet they are. That is an OOC move on an OOC game.
If you want IC reasons for a war, then you should talk to the UMC about their current predicament.
This is an aspect of the OOC game you guys are so beating upon like a dead horse. They are playing the OOC game. They have made no threads about being spies or working against the CIS. Yet somehow they know they are attacking? The UMC is attacking the SJO because of the SJO/CIS/ORC/CIC's thread in which they gather together to talk about attacking the Mandalorians. There are NO SPIES in the thread. No posts about spying on them. No post within the Mandalorians have ever mentioned this being a reason for them attacking. Yet they are. That is an OOC move on an OOC game.
If you want IC reasons for a war, then you should talk to the UMC about their current predicament.
Alkor Centaris
Son of Liberty
The Map game is about PvP and IC politics.
Why do we need safe space rules?
Don't piss people off, you'll only get invaded over territorial disputes. Easy.
Why do we need safe space rules?
Don't piss people off, you'll only get invaded over territorial disputes. Easy.
THE UNDEFEATED
[member="Auberon"]
By no stretch of the imagination am I here in their defence, I'm categorically not a fan of them or their FO. But two wrongs don't make a right.
By no stretch of the imagination am I here in their defence, I'm categorically not a fan of them or their FO. But two wrongs don't make a right.
THE UNDEFEATED
[member="Alkor Centaris"]
We're a bunch of writers. Opinionated and most are prickly and sensitive. Not every bodies social rules are the same. And frankly, the biggest safe space is the alliances for OOC sake to not have to deal with anything formidable.
Sure, maybe all the people getting crushed deserve it but that doesn't make it acceptable. Shouldn't matter who you piss off OOC. If you don't like people, don't go near them.
If we all invaded our friends, or followed the example of the ORC/TSE invasion. Chaos wouldn't be declining.
We're a bunch of writers. Opinionated and most are prickly and sensitive. Not every bodies social rules are the same. And frankly, the biggest safe space is the alliances for OOC sake to not have to deal with anything formidable.
Sure, maybe all the people getting crushed deserve it but that doesn't make it acceptable. Shouldn't matter who you piss off OOC. If you don't like people, don't go near them.
If we all invaded our friends, or followed the example of the ORC/TSE invasion. Chaos wouldn't be declining.
Alkor Centaris
Son of Liberty
I guess I'm the only Darwinist in the room.
THE UNDEFEATED
[member="Alkor Centaris"]
The survival of the fitness currently employed on chaos is a façade.
The survival of the fitness currently employed on chaos is a façade.
S O V E R E I G N
They became a Major Faction. They accepted the terms. Now they want to change it, or others want to change it for them.
They accepted the chance to be attacked this way. It's their fault if they didn't read the fine print.
They accepted the chance to be attacked this way. It's their fault if they didn't read the fine print.
But I Am Free
[member="Alkor Centaris"]
"Piss us off IC and we'll take it out on you OOC."
[member="Auberon"]
That's cool, but that's the UCM doing a random thread and doesn't have anything to do with the above. If anything, it proves my point.
"They did something jerkish so we must respond in kind! OOC MUST BE MET WITH OOC"
[member="Veiere Arenais"]
There's nothing to admit. When your faction is more catch all, you're going to get more members. More members means more invasions you can pile up. More invasions piled up means more stress for the lesser major factions who are trying to play the game for the fun it entails, but are met with OOC vendettas.
[member="Kor Vexen"]
You are the only person to have answered my question without resorting to "It's how the game is played, get over it." And I thank you for that. That's a perfect reason to have multiple invasions. Folks don't get a lot of time to write, and rather then force them to sit out because of rules they should be included.
But on that same side, that same belief that folks should be allowed to have fun. What about the other side? What about the side that's no longer having fun? Why do people need to be punished OOC? Isn't there a better way we, as writers before anything else, find an answer that's fun for everyone?
"Piss us off IC and we'll take it out on you OOC."
[member="Auberon"]
That's cool, but that's the UCM doing a random thread and doesn't have anything to do with the above. If anything, it proves my point.
"They did something jerkish so we must respond in kind! OOC MUST BE MET WITH OOC"
[member="Veiere Arenais"]
There's nothing to admit. When your faction is more catch all, you're going to get more members. More members means more invasions you can pile up. More invasions piled up means more stress for the lesser major factions who are trying to play the game for the fun it entails, but are met with OOC vendettas.
[member="Kor Vexen"]
You are the only person to have answered my question without resorting to "It's how the game is played, get over it." And I thank you for that. That's a perfect reason to have multiple invasions. Folks don't get a lot of time to write, and rather then force them to sit out because of rules they should be included.
But on that same side, that same belief that folks should be allowed to have fun. What about the other side? What about the side that's no longer having fun? Why do people need to be punished OOC? Isn't there a better way we, as writers before anything else, find an answer that's fun for everyone?
Valdus Bral
️ Clan Bral Alor ️| Warlord of Nellogant
The UCM is the odd person out on the super friends alliance that is currently in effect. The Map game is unsustainable, it's coming to a rapid close, and site numbers, as [member="Tathra Khaeus"] has pointed, out is in decline. This thread isn't about the UCM it's about the dogpiling tactic in general and anything being discussed here, as was pointed out by the admins, won't change what has already begun. If the map game is join the CIS/SJO/CIC/Etc alliance or get dogpiled, what point is there to even being in the map game at all?
This is people's free time that they choose to spend on here to write stories involving star wars. The map is more of a prompt for inter-faction conflict. At the current the dogpile strategy is to overwhelm a singular faction with simultaneous invasions so that the defending faction is unable to keep up with all the threads. What is the harm in postponing invasion declarations until a faction is free from other invasion threads in order to actually write an enjoyable story? There isn't any, unless it's motivated by OOC intentions of not actually creating conflict stories but instead punishing the defending faction OOCly.
This is people's free time that they choose to spend on here to write stories involving star wars. The map is more of a prompt for inter-faction conflict. At the current the dogpile strategy is to overwhelm a singular faction with simultaneous invasions so that the defending faction is unable to keep up with all the threads. What is the harm in postponing invasion declarations until a faction is free from other invasion threads in order to actually write an enjoyable story? There isn't any, unless it's motivated by OOC intentions of not actually creating conflict stories but instead punishing the defending faction OOCly.
THE UNDEFEATED
I don't get how you don't see a need for change. [member="Auberon"]
The site is becoming more toxic and salty, there's more division than before. Not only that, has the majority of people really got to enjoy invasions as of late?
On both sides, people seem stressed and irritated and upset in general. I've been upset myself, confused and irritated and also seen others on the CIS side during Eshan or Kuat ect, cry or become upset and frustrated by the toxicity revolving around this meta or current playstyle.
I don't see the positive side to how things are right now other than some hubris placed upon something of virtual value. Change won't hurt the site, but refusing to in this aspect just might.
The site is becoming more toxic and salty, there's more division than before. Not only that, has the majority of people really got to enjoy invasions as of late?
On both sides, people seem stressed and irritated and upset in general. I've been upset myself, confused and irritated and also seen others on the CIS side during Eshan or Kuat ect, cry or become upset and frustrated by the toxicity revolving around this meta or current playstyle.
I don't see the positive side to how things are right now other than some hubris placed upon something of virtual value. Change won't hurt the site, but refusing to in this aspect just might.
Alkor Centaris
Son of Liberty
I don't care about the ooc portion, is the thing. People play the map game at their own risk. Sensitivity isn't something that factors into that equation, it's just an unfortunate human element. People lose what they work hard for, and it's always hard to swallow because so many people emotionally invest.
But that's just it. It's a game. At the end of the day, the fundamental issue is that the people are getting hurt because they're risking so much on something so fickle.
Is it wrong of me to be callous? No. But it's also not wrong of you to feel bad. We're different people. We see the world differently. But the map game still just a game.
[member="Kahlil Zambrano"]
But that's just it. It's a game. At the end of the day, the fundamental issue is that the people are getting hurt because they're risking so much on something so fickle.
Is it wrong of me to be callous? No. But it's also not wrong of you to feel bad. We're different people. We see the world differently. But the map game still just a game.
[member="Kahlil Zambrano"]