Jen
Well-Known Member
Yes please. As pointed out we're restricting creativity and wasting the time of people that just want to pretend to be obiwan kenobi for a few minutes a day.
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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I'm torn on this one.
While I like the fact we have to start as Padawan - as logically everyone would in the SW universe coming into a Force Faction for the very first time on their journey - it makes for good development. You get to test the water, see how you feel writing the character with the Faction and the Force alignment you choose. Generally have to put a bit of thought into things to get the rewards and satisfaction you've done your best work.
Ranks, to me, are still special. It means I've earnt them through writing and sharing stories with others and it's been noticed. That makes me feel very proud and rewarded and gives me motivation to keep on going and do my character justice!
Something about the fact we skip that to Knight takes away all of the above - the pride, the excitement, the journey....it's just sort of "forget all the boring Padawan stuff and go straight in with Knight!".
People slam Padawan/Apprentice/Acolyte ranks as being a label, but I don't see them as that. They are the first step in a characters journey and makes achieving the next one really special.
We have gotten rid of training threads for new Force powers, and now with Force ranks on the table. Soon it's just going to be a melee of Knights and Masters all with high abilities. There'll be few Apprentices knocking about and fewer threads of exploration of ones powers, and fellow characters and relations. If that makes sense?
I don't know. It's not about status for me or rushing into being the most powerful or respected. It's about following your character's journey, and that shouldn't be seen as a burden or a bore just because you start with a lower rank. Rank isn't a label on your ability. It's a rank of your character in a logical way and allows you to progress and develop to satisfying needs.
Well, that's my opinion anyway.
While I like the fact we have to start as Padawan - as logically everyone would in the SW universe coming into a Force Faction for the very first time on their journey - it makes for good development. You get to test the water, see how you feel writing the character with the Faction and the Force alignment you choose. Generally have to put a bit of thought into things to get the rewards and satisfaction you've done your best work.
Ranks, to me, are still special. It means I've earnt them through writing and sharing stories with others and it's been noticed. That makes me feel very proud and rewarded and gives me motivation to keep on going and do my character justice!
Something about the fact we skip that to Knight takes away all of the above - the pride, the excitement, the journey....it's just sort of "forget all the boring Padawan stuff and go straight in with Knight!".
People slam Padawan/Apprentice/Acolyte ranks as being a label, but I don't see them as that. They are the first step in a characters journey and makes achieving the next one really special.
We have gotten rid of training threads for new Force powers, and now with Force ranks on the table. Soon it's just going to be a melee of Knights and Masters all with high abilities. There'll be few Apprentices knocking about and fewer threads of exploration of ones powers, and fellow characters and relations. If that makes sense?
I don't know. It's not about status for me or rushing into being the most powerful or respected. It's about following your character's journey, and that shouldn't be seen as a burden or a bore just because you start with a lower rank. Rank isn't a label on your ability. It's a rank of your character in a logical way and allows you to progress and develop to satisfying needs.
Well, that's my opinion anyway.
NightSister
Animus
To be honest, while I don't love the idea of new writers being able to achieve Knight, it doesn't affect me enough to be able to object to the change. The writers who write Apprenticeship as a story will still be here, and the ones who spammed a load of training threads until they got a new tag won't have to do so anymore. Win-win.
On top of that, I don't write with people because of their ranks unless we're talking actual story-based training; I write with people because I like their writing, I like their character, I think we could write a good story together. Rank plays *no part* in how good a story it is or how much impact it has (Aria here, for example, was aided in her conversion by an Acolyte) so while it might mikdly irk me to see new members get Knighted, I honestly don't care enough because the rank doesn't and shouldn't mean anything.
On top of that, I don't write with people because of their ranks unless we're talking actual story-based training; I write with people because I like their writing, I like their character, I think we could write a good story together. Rank plays *no part* in how good a story it is or how much impact it has (Aria here, for example, was aided in her conversion by an Acolyte) so while it might mikdly irk me to see new members get Knighted, I honestly don't care enough because the rank doesn't and shouldn't mean anything.
Kira Vaal
D E S T I N E D
You know what?
Why not.
If I did have anything to say about it I would state that I like the legacy idea [member="Soeht"] put forward, but I see no immediate harm in trying something new to further the advancement of our board. You never know this might be the secret messiah rule....
Why not.
If I did have anything to say about it I would state that I like the legacy idea [member="Soeht"] put forward, but I see no immediate harm in trying something new to further the advancement of our board. You never know this might be the secret messiah rule....
I guess a counter to this line of thought is that logically everyone in the Star Wars universe would start as an infant.Connor Harrison said:
Should the site demand characters to start at a certain point? I've seen a good amount of decent characters start old and in their twilight years. The Star Wars movies don't force audiences to go through the training process of every character - some characters are just introduced as Jedi Masters. Current rules have an awkward requirement where a person can make a new character as a Jedi veteran of the Republic vs. Sith Empire wars but he starts as a Jedi Padawan in 850 ABY. :\
Also a random question to consider: would you be more likely to kill off your characters if you could create a new Sith Lord/Jedi Master without any hassle?
People bring up concerns about increased powergamming, but having to earn your rank for (almost) every new character does give me an incentive to keep my character alive despite the odds. This is kind of why I've been making rando-NPCs tangentally connected to Soeht - there's no hassle in me having them die were the situation to evolve in that direction.
Darth Abyss
Eldritch
This is an idea I can get behind even as someone who is more against than for this change.Soeht said:
I think it would be more important that we actually give these ranks meaning again. Over roughly 100 posts here we have learned that most people think ranks don't matter, a surprising amount that even say that master is meaningless as well. If a large part of the community sees it that way then why do we have these ranks at all? Either we make sure that ranks are respected to some degree or we go full anarchy and just throw away the system as a whole lol.
Lord of Girth
No. Here is why
I don't care about factions. I honestly, completely, don't care about factions. They could all go die in a hole and I would not feel sad. Apprentices don't have to have training threads to become a Knight. The reason people are brought to a Knight rank is because of their ability to write, and their ability to understand the star wars universe as a whole, as well as be known as a respectable individual who shows promise to others, and to create more stories for others.
In fact! Most of my more notable characters, have little to none on training threads. If I do a training thread, its solo because I know what I want, and how to train my character on it. I find it much more enjoyable for myself, to write a story where I don't have some unknown writer who ruins what I want. As well, The opposite of that, some of my characters have ONLY training thread after training thread because that is what they are trying to do. Train their ass off to become the best.
Apprentices/Padawans, are put through the test to become a knight to prove that they as a writer, and as a character, can hold that responsibility. I do NOT want to see people who barely write four sentences a post, as a knight or master level character.
As well, as someone who has created apprentice after apprentice and trained them to master, and put their time and effort to becoming strong, get roflstomped by some new character who is a Knight because he wanted to skip apprenticeship, and wanted to be "Cool."
We already have a problem with people wanting to over play their characters to be some god, or some being who could *ahem* summon stars. I enjoy those threads, but the people who do this deserve the rank.
If you want to progress to become better on the site, if you want to progress on the site, then you need to earn it through writing. Be it training threads or no training threads. If you work hard, you will earn it. And as people say, "its handed out like candy" when my apprentice character [member="Selene"] has been an apprentice for an entire year.
No. In fact, I would rather want the requirements for knight risen to have people actually prove they are worth the time to rank up.
Sorry guys, I am going to be the party pooper, and say no to whatever you happen to be handing out.
Ashin Karrde said:
I don't care about factions. I honestly, completely, don't care about factions. They could all go die in a hole and I would not feel sad. Apprentices don't have to have training threads to become a Knight. The reason people are brought to a Knight rank is because of their ability to write, and their ability to understand the star wars universe as a whole, as well as be known as a respectable individual who shows promise to others, and to create more stories for others.
In fact! Most of my more notable characters, have little to none on training threads. If I do a training thread, its solo because I know what I want, and how to train my character on it. I find it much more enjoyable for myself, to write a story where I don't have some unknown writer who ruins what I want. As well, The opposite of that, some of my characters have ONLY training thread after training thread because that is what they are trying to do. Train their ass off to become the best.
Apprentices/Padawans, are put through the test to become a knight to prove that they as a writer, and as a character, can hold that responsibility. I do NOT want to see people who barely write four sentences a post, as a knight or master level character.
As well, as someone who has created apprentice after apprentice and trained them to master, and put their time and effort to becoming strong, get roflstomped by some new character who is a Knight because he wanted to skip apprenticeship, and wanted to be "Cool."
We already have a problem with people wanting to over play their characters to be some god, or some being who could *ahem* summon stars. I enjoy those threads, but the people who do this deserve the rank.
If you want to progress to become better on the site, if you want to progress on the site, then you need to earn it through writing. Be it training threads or no training threads. If you work hard, you will earn it. And as people say, "its handed out like candy" when my apprentice character [member="Selene"] has been an apprentice for an entire year.
No. In fact, I would rather want the requirements for knight risen to have people actually prove they are worth the time to rank up.
Sorry guys, I am going to be the party pooper, and say no to whatever you happen to be handing out.
You're breaking my heart.Nick Imura said:
Lord of Girth
I didn't mean to break your heart! Keep it together for me.
[member="Soeht"], I will admit, that I do see short posts, but they are done by writers who know how to write. They know how to write just enough story to keep you writing with them, with the smallest posts possible to not have walls of posts. I am perfectly fine with that. I do not mind those posts. Its the one where.
*Darth Zax slices at you with his lightsaber, and yells. "You dare enter my domain?"*
They are so short that no story is written on why the person did this, or any indication of where they are aiming, or how they are swiping at you. The only response I can come up with, is "I block your attack and swipe back at you."
I love reading smaller posts that point just the obvious, and that is all that is needed. I am not saying that apprentices need to write walls of posts to prove themselves, I want to restate that I want the person to be able to write and drive the story reliably.
[member="Soeht"], I will admit, that I do see short posts, but they are done by writers who know how to write. They know how to write just enough story to keep you writing with them, with the smallest posts possible to not have walls of posts. I am perfectly fine with that. I do not mind those posts. Its the one where.
*Darth Zax slices at you with his lightsaber, and yells. "You dare enter my domain?"*
They are so short that no story is written on why the person did this, or any indication of where they are aiming, or how they are swiping at you. The only response I can come up with, is "I block your attack and swipe back at you."
I love reading smaller posts that point just the obvious, and that is all that is needed. I am not saying that apprentices need to write walls of posts to prove themselves, I want to restate that I want the person to be able to write and drive the story reliably.
Nick Imura said:
Sure, it's basic. But this works. I can write a good response to this, beyond "I block your attack and swipe back at you." I can assume that the Writer of Darth Zax is interested in having a mid-combat conversation - so I can play off of that. The story would obviously center around this back-and-forth duel and the conversation within it.
Either that, or I throw a curve ball. A sudden environmental hazard. Soeht gives no response and tries to avoid the lightsaber. Or I read their character's biography and try to throw a plot twist.
The possibilities are only limited by the imagination.
Eddak Manod
My Love
[member=Tefka]
I absolutely understand why people would not want this. To have it earned, the effort put into attaining ranks, the good feels of a faction being like 'so we voted, you can now be a knight' kind of deal. But in all honesty (excluding my take on the Force), it's an obstacle for creativity. Everyone who is used to the system is fine with it, and they have gotten used to it. But newer people who join the site will suddenly have their creativity stifled and suffocated. Majority of people want to roleplay a Force User, right? Most people don't want to have their character a child or a full adult learn the force, and many don't like doing 'past roleplays' so that they can be the old dude that kicks butt.
I like the ranking system, where it is earned. But I vote to take away the effort for knight.
[member="Nick Imura"]
You say short posts like you regulate posting on this site. While you don't want to see short posts from a master or knight, that isn't your choice. If you hate such small writing, well, do the obvious; ignore it. It's very rude, and maybe a little selfish, but you can choose to not roleplay with someone. And roleplays are regulated by the Writers. If a character is doing something you believe they shouldn't, contact them, try and fix things. If you can't, call a mod.
I absolutely understand why people would not want this. To have it earned, the effort put into attaining ranks, the good feels of a faction being like 'so we voted, you can now be a knight' kind of deal. But in all honesty (excluding my take on the Force), it's an obstacle for creativity. Everyone who is used to the system is fine with it, and they have gotten used to it. But newer people who join the site will suddenly have their creativity stifled and suffocated. Majority of people want to roleplay a Force User, right? Most people don't want to have their character a child or a full adult learn the force, and many don't like doing 'past roleplays' so that they can be the old dude that kicks butt.
I like the ranking system, where it is earned. But I vote to take away the effort for knight.
[member="Nick Imura"]
You say short posts like you regulate posting on this site. While you don't want to see short posts from a master or knight, that isn't your choice. If you hate such small writing, well, do the obvious; ignore it. It's very rude, and maybe a little selfish, but you can choose to not roleplay with someone. And roleplays are regulated by the Writers. If a character is doing something you believe they shouldn't, contact them, try and fix things. If you can't, call a mod.
L Admin
Alyson Halle said:
Carlyle Rausgeber said:
Satia said:
Lark said:
John Ash said:
Nick Imura said:
http://starwarsrp.net/blog/1/entry-2161-an-open-letter-to-chaos/
A strangely mixed bag of Force Energy.
I still think we should remove the Knight permission requirements because I feel like if we wanted to make sense with the universe, we'd be making children ONLY as Padawans/Acolytes/whatever.Tefka said:
A strangely mixed bag of Force Energy.
Also.. THISJen said:
Kamon's OOC
Well-Known Member
*points to Luke and Rey* Boom.Creepella said:
A strangely mixed bag of Force Energy.
[member="Ignus"]
Those seem to be special cases though.
Those seem to be special cases though.
Kamon's OOC
Well-Known Member
[member="Creepella"]
Only by virtue of the fact that everyone else was dead or old. In Legends older people were trained as well. Corran Horn, for example.
Only by virtue of the fact that everyone else was dead or old. In Legends older people were trained as well. Corran Horn, for example.
A strangely mixed bag of Force Energy.
[member="Ignus"]
Well, I fail to see why EVERYONE has to start at Padawan in a site where creativity is required nowadays.
Well, I fail to see why EVERYONE has to start at Padawan in a site where creativity is required nowadays.
Poe
тнє ναмριяє ℓσя∂
Skywalkers and such. Blah!
On another note, it comes down to the individual writer to progress thier characters. If they feel ready, then they're ready. If they feel they are not ready, then continue with threads that show the growth of your character. So bascially concern yourselves with your own characters and not worry about other writers. Finally, there ia no concrete rule that states you have to write with every writer here. If you feel they don't deserve the rank, then don't write with that writer. Simple.
Edit:
Not everyone enjoys training threads or training with another writer. As history as stated numerous times, people have lives and lives dictate their activity here. Adding this change eliminates writers who are trying to get their character's promoted from playing the waiting game of activity vs. inactivity.
On another note, it comes down to the individual writer to progress thier characters. If they feel ready, then they're ready. If they feel they are not ready, then continue with threads that show the growth of your character. So bascially concern yourselves with your own characters and not worry about other writers. Finally, there ia no concrete rule that states you have to write with every writer here. If you feel they don't deserve the rank, then don't write with that writer. Simple.
Edit:
Not everyone enjoys training threads or training with another writer. As history as stated numerous times, people have lives and lives dictate their activity here. Adding this change eliminates writers who are trying to get their character's promoted from playing the waiting game of activity vs. inactivity.
Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
It's interesting, I get that level of 'power' and the like are a concern for letting new people jump into Knight or Master, but that seems to imply that working up through the ranks does something to prevent people from powergaming or other abusing the system. Given that that is patently untrue, I think it's fair to say that restricting ranks fails to act as any sort of OOC balancing of fairplay rule.
Given that, why have the restriction? Balancing/fairplay are the reason behind restrictions on the Factory and there they make a decent amount of sense (says the totally not-biased Factory Judge) but if they don't apply, then all you're doing, as others have said, is potentially forcing people to spend time doing something they don't enjoy to get to do something they might enjoy.
On a collaborative fiction writing site. And a lot of us are adults. I mean, shit man...
So yeah, lets do it.
Given that, why have the restriction? Balancing/fairplay are the reason behind restrictions on the Factory and there they make a decent amount of sense (says the totally not-biased Factory Judge) but if they don't apply, then all you're doing, as others have said, is potentially forcing people to spend time doing something they don't enjoy to get to do something they might enjoy.
On a collaborative fiction writing site. And a lot of us are adults. I mean, shit man...
So yeah, lets do it.