Kashyyk invasion- objective 2

[Seraphina Shel'tah]

[member="Kira Liadain"] & [member="Relit Vandal"] The issue stems from repeatedly spawning more, and more, and more, and more NPCs over and over until you simply overwhelm the enemy.

For example: There is literally no repercussions for Vrag stating in every single post that more troops are coming. He can simply continue to add more until every single PC and NPC at objective B has fled or died. Why? Because why not? There's no reason not to continue throwing more on to the fire. Post 1: 5,000 troops are coming, Post 2: another 5000 ..

Players are losing the sense of self control. We may as well just say that the Sith have 900,000 troops, just because they don't declare them straight from the get-go does not negate the fact that an infinite number will continue to pour in until the objective has ben won.

 

[Kira Talith]

I was speaking collectively. You didn't count numbers at A, [member="Kira Liadain"].

Cause this is Objective B -- and i have a lists of both Republic and Sith forces -- they still do not top hundreds of thousands of npcs. ( literally have a google doc for every objective in both invasions, listing every fight, who their npc's are, what they are doing because i'm a bit OCD that way)

And this is also an invasion force on a world that is not a fortress world.

It would have been the same situation in reverse had the Republic decided to hit Chiss space against the one sith on less defended worlds than Prakith like I recommended instead -- the very same planets I said would make sense for TWO space objectives instead of one!

So why not hit a One Sith world that has little roleplayed defenses??


I don't understand why one would want to go to a heavily fortified world to attack. Why not make the most out of every advantage you can get?

People go to less defended worlds for a reason. Because it would be less easily defended.

And that is why the one sith went to Kashyyyk rather than go Ruusan ( which has had far more rp'd defenses)

 

[Placeholder 0133]

[member="Kian Karr"]

Just wouldn't be realistic for a line of guys to crawl our of that, y'know?


I think I got a bit carried away. Point is, Seraphina has it about spot on.
Don't mean to be bitchy with ya Reverance, just not having the best feelings toward this little conflict.

 

[Kamon's OOC]

We'll see what happens with Prakith.

Two, what [member="Seraphina Shel'tah"] said.

 

[Relit Vandal]

[member="Seraphina Shel'tah"] That's simply hyperbole and conjecture at this point. See, the problem is this: You all have problem with things but instead of asking us to tone it down (I'm actually very amiable when you take the opportunity), you sit back in here and get upset about things and let it fester. It's not healthy and doesn't lead to a conducive and collaborative situation. If you all would simply come to the faction admin and talk to us about it, we would be happy to address the issue and figure out compromises. But we can't be expected to see everything and as such, problems go untreated.

 

[Kian Karr]

[member="T-Eya Carn"]

Let's keep it civil!

 

[Kamon's OOC]

[member="Kian Karr"]
Edited, but I didn't say anything uncivil anyways. Just stated a fact.

 

[Seraphina Shel'tah]

[member="Relit Vandal"]

I'm not upset. It takes quite a bit more than NPC rampage to upset me. I'm disappointed, yes, upset? No.

I don't believe my statement however was conjecture whatsoever, as it is clearly happening. I honestly feel that where fleeting limits are regulated (I am assuming during negotiations? As I was unable to find an actual rule related to it) NPC limits should also be discussed so that there is no surprises when people are dropping in 30,000 soldiers 5k at a time over and over until they are content with having stomped the objective into oblivion without having to do much aside from basic arithmetic.

Going forward I will speak up, but I still stand by what I said above.

 

[Kiyron]

Working on developing NPC limits as well already. Just setting up a system and then it will go into testing,

 

[Relit Vandal]

[member="Seraphina Shel'tah"] It's conjecture cause it's only happened once and Vrag has been regulated for it (I have spoken to her about the NPCs - this is only her second invasion, after all). See, discussing things does help. Realistically speaking, you wouldn't drop 30,000 at a single time but over a period of time as it is (I haven't dropped 1000 of my vong yet, is that gonna be an issue if I still use them?). But at this point, it would be damned if you do and damned if you didn't (either way, there will be complaints and that's a fact). The problem is miscommunication, or lack of communication altogether, and it's incessant and constant.

Please feel free to contact my Rev account if you have further concerns over any of the NPC's used for the stronghold. I think I will be setting my Jedi ambitions aside for a while.

 

[Seraphina Shel'tah]

[member="Relit Vandal"] - I wasn't picking on Vrag, just using as an example. I'm also not in any way saying that Dak using 200,000 wookies wasn't over the top either. I am only saying that it would be good to understand the numbers each side plans to use, so that there isn't this kind of problem in the future.

I don't have a problem with Vrag in any way. She used the NPCs as she should have, I am only asking that there be more consideration in the future about the number of NPCs on the field at once from both sides. If we can somehow have a discussion about making NPC caps that would be fantastic. It doesn't have to be 1000vs1000, the numbers don't matter so much as the feeling of simply being overwhelmed on purpose to the detriment of any actual RP.

Please don't take it as a personal attack towards you or Vrag. I love seeing the NPC actions and think they are critical, they give background action and life to the invasions, I would just like to see them a bit more controlled so nobody is under the impression of being overrun simply for the sake of winning an objective.

Winning or losing Kashyyyk means nothing to me, I am fine with losing every Republic planet and being forced into exile if the story goes that way, I just want to feel like I'm getting something out of it in terms of interaction with everyone else, you know what I mean?

I don't want to cause arguments, so please don't think I'm taking shots at you or anyone else.

 

[Mother Askani]

I just think honestly, would the forces provided with the submission had been enough? Though at this point in time I don't think it matters we're way into the thread. I just think next time maybe both parties can propose limits on NPCS usage so that PVP can definitely be the focus if thats what people truly want, so that it doesn't become confusing and all over the place.

 

[Kira Talith]

I just think honestly, would the forces provided with the submission had been enough? Though at this point in time I don't think it matters we're way into the thread. I just think next time maybe both parties can propose limits on NPCS usage so that PVP can definitely be the focus if thats what people truly want, so that it doesn't become confusing and all over the place.

It ends up being a conundrum not matter the type of invasion from what I've seen. A happy balance doesn't seem to come to fruition, no matter how many trials and errors.

For example, the first invasions of Coruscant, Empress Teta ( first time), and Coruscant ( second time) were all PVP objectives -- where the victory conditions were merely how many PVP fights were won and tallied at the end of the invasion to confirm a win.

At the time, with One Sith heavily out numbering others, the complaint was that PVP fighting isn't fair and that objectives should be used instead. So invasions turned to more objective lead areas where 2 out of 3 would be a win -- that is when NPC forces really started to rear their head.

Every new invasion brings forth another rule written in proverbial blood -- the biggest thing is that the Codex is optional -- not mandatory. If one wants to submit subbed npc units they can, but that doesn't mean others have to. Especially with canon sources.

Finding a compromise is really what it ends up going about in the end.

But then it ends up being such a massive chunk of rules that it takes anything organically occurring without them off the table -- it is of such frustration to me when I can be involved with so many different characters in an invasion for story purposes and I am either limited to one char only or two.

 

[Corvus Raaf]

I'm a bit late to the party, sorry - but as this wasn't one of my four objectives, I overlooked it

The key here is dialogue and communication. I genuinely feel uncomfortable - like I've walked into a room and lots of people are arguing and some of what they're saying is about me. I can't sugar-coat it, that's what I feel.

If you have an issue with anyone, at any time (not just Invasions) you come to the FAs first. That's what we're here for. I must get half a dozen PMs a day along those lines and do you know what, I'm always glad to help.

I come here to:

1. Enjoy myself
2. Write
3. Help people

And if those are in conflict, 3. always comes first. So (and I'm not looking at any names here) if there are specific issues that you're struggling with in the Invasion, speak to the other writer first. If it feels inflammatory, don't do it in public, PM them. Because if you're called out for something on an open board, you get defensive. That's what people do. So you don't move forward. Have a private word. If that doesn't work, come to me or Ava. If we can't help immediately we'll go to (on this occasion) Reverance or Darth Isolda.

And let me say that for every challenge we've faced running two Invasions simultaneously, we've resolved every one amicably. Are things perfect? No, but where are they?

Please, let's not lose sight of the fact that we're here to have fun. If someone's spoiling your fun - tell me. Not others who will agree how bad it is - but not help in any way shape or form make it better.

(Puts soapbox away)

It's simple really...thanks for listening

[member="Relit Vandal"]

 

[Varus Shatterstar]

Don't forget that conflict and disagreement can be handled away from the eyes of everyone. In fact, it's much more constructive to deal with issues you may have with another writer/member of the faction in private. It's polite and it keeps others from getting into it and getting heated.

There's no reason to air out issues you have with someone else in public when you could choose to be an adult and squash things in private. There is absolutely no excuse for name calling, trash talking, slandering or anything of the like for all prying eyes to see OR in private. If you can't handle your differences or bring up a simple point/opinion in a level headed and calm manner then you need to seriously examine yourself before you begin casting judgement on others. Someone who is unable to forgive and forget will often times not be forgiven in return, and those who choose to cause dissension in the ranks will not be among the ranks for long. I'm not even a member of staff, but I can assure you that you will be handled if you can't handle yourself like an adult.

So...

1. If you have something to say, say it in a nice way or shut your mouth. 2. If you think that airing it out publically could cause trouble then handle it in private. 3. Repeat steps 1 and 2, ya poodoo heads.

Have a nice day. ^_^​

 

[Mother Askani]

[member="Gherron Vael"]

I wonder if we were able to get a large majority into the center, if we could encase them all, and hold back the implosion.

With Aaralyn using battle meditation it should be enough to have our NPCs slowly push them to the center, and would give me enough time to build up enough strength to exert a large scale barrier which you and your padawan could reinforce. Once they go off we could lift them into the air, because at that point...it would be a large black hole.

 

[Gherron Dragovalor]

We could certainly try. It sounds viable to me, let's do it [member="Sochi Ru"]

 

[Mother Askani]

Alright, my next post i'll be building energy, so ill leave you to take charge of our NPCS and get them to the center.

[member="Gherron Vael"]

 

[Gherron Dragovalor]

Sounds like a plan [member="Sochi Ru"]

 

[Gherron Dragovalor]

For reference, how many troopers will be following Gherron? For the NPC part of the post. [member="Sochi Ru"]