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Mandalorians

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ICly, I agree that Hadrix needs to be replaced as Supreme Commander, she's shown to be unable to handle the post. I think she should also face a hearing of some sort, for her words during the opening moments of the engagement made any peaceful resolution impossible.

As for the reason the Mandalorians were there, it is historically accurate that Roche has a sizeable population of Mandalorians, and that Roche was their only steady supply of a certain material. Should they have gone about it a better way, yes. Does that make up for insulting them? No.

On the other points, [member="Suravi Teigra"], I can agree. We can't force the systems to remain ICly, but likewise, no character can take them away from the Republic OOCly.

What I would propose is that system defense be left to the system wishing secession, but the space outside of their systems still belong to the Republic and will remain patrolled by Republic assets. The seceding systems would no longer be able to enjoy any of the positives that come with Republic statehood. Namely, any goods moving to those systems through Republic space needs to be taxed as if it were entering and exiting Republic space from international space. Warships of those systems may move about their systems unhindered, but may only enter Republic space under escort.

Essentially, the Republic would have two systems that have already shown hostile intent towards the Republic. They should be allowed to secede, but they only have sovereignty within their systems and not an inch further.
 
[member="Khyros Sunblade"] I'm sorry, but the Mandalorians declaring war after someone insulted them is ludicrous. That's the behavior of children. They go around the option of diplomacy to fight us at Roche, and now they decide to decide to park a fleet at Alderaan right after that battle. As hostiles, they have no business inside the Republic. Our collective security concerns overrides Alderaan's, a planet who's loyalties are becoming increasingly suspect. Now, again, instead of meeting with a Republic delegation over the issue of Hadrix, they go around making ultimatiums, and place a bounty on Hadrix's head.

They had no business there. Their issues with us were resolved as we returned their assets and paid them reparations. If we wanted to keep their assets, then we would have never done that. Mandalorians living within Republic territory fall under our jurisdiction. They're not diplomats, but economic migrants. That's the way it works everywhere else. If the Mandalorians are going to infringe on our sovereignty supposedly to protect the rights of their people, then they also need to carry out justice against Mandalorians that attack us in service to our enemies.

It's the Mandalorian's fault for those civilians being killed. You don't leave your shelter in the middle of a tornado. The venting was done under the assumption that the Mandalorians wouldn't be stupid enough to be shuffling around civilians in the middle of combat zones. None of those colonies would have come under direct fire by anyone on the Republic's end. They would have been completely safe remaining in their shelters. Prior to that, Mandalorians were threatening to sabotage life support. All these crocodile tears about civilians is just a political stunt by a group of people with a legacy of terrorizing the whole galaxy.

ICily, I just see the Mandalorians trying to find excuses to make war with the Republic. I just see them as being bonkers at this point, when they still have to contend with the One Sith and their allies. Whatever rationale for antagonizing us, I think it's time to get ready for the real possibility of having to fight the Mandalorians again.
 
Fighting the Mandalorians might be inevitable, but I feel that that would be a fatal mistake for both the Republic and the Mandalorians.

I agree, Alderaan inviting the Mandalorians to defend them is wrong, but it is also already done. (How they got across Republic space unhindered is a bit beyond belief, but from what I can gather travel isn't really kept to within any rules here).

I also agree about the crocodile tears, especially as the bounty went up with Olivia mentioning her brother being "The Worldslayer". Him having essentially glassed the planet of Dromund Kaas.

However, despite the fact (and I agree with you here) that declaring "All out war" because of someone's insults is childish, those insults should never have been uttered by a person in a command position. That too was childish and unbecoming an officer of the Republic.

Honestly, I think we are seeing fairly eye to eye on this, but we still need to work ICly to try to get the Mando's to calm down.

[member="Suravi Teigra"]
 
[member="Khyros Sunblade"] I made a post in that thread, talking about the need for delegations from both parties to take a have a sit down and talk through things. I completely agree that Hadrix's behavior with the Mandalorian's is unacceptable, and she should be punished accordingly. Not for the hangar issue though, I lay the blame on the Mandalorian's feet for that one.

My recommendation is to gear up for some more fighting, but I'm holding out the hope that the Mandalorians would finally see some reason as we alleviate their concerns.

In the meantime, we should try to keep Hadrix safe from bounty hunters. I can see in that thread now that there will be Mandalorians coming for her. I see an opportunity to take some hostages.
 
[member="Khyros Sunblade"] Welp, nevermind on that. I guess there was already a meeting, and was decided trial to put Hadrix on trial before a neutral tribunal. Ugh, if this is the case, then we have no choice but to cough her up. Leave her in the custody of the Jedi.
 

Popo

I'm Sexy and I Know It
Just my two bits, but as much as it might seem childish, you generally don't tell a warrior race they're second rate hacks to their face regardless of if its true or not. It's like walking into a Brooklyn bar wearing a redsocks jersey and trash talking the giants, then trying to say the new yorkers are being children.

You insulted a warrior race by claiming they're lesser warriors than the soldiers they trained that the you used. Them ain't crocodile tears. Those are from laughing. And now the bar fight is starting.

I should open the betting house again for this one. Might make a few bucks :|
 
[member="Popo"] Don't get me wrong, Hadrix was an idiot, but I find the Mandalorians just as dumb for endangering civilian lives with military action because they got verbally triggered.

None of that matters anymore, because the Mandalorians now believe they were wronged yet again when some random delegation they spoke with failed to turn over Hadrix. Meh, at this point, I'll probably go find Hadrix myself to get the Mandalorians to shut up. Free of charge too.
 
[member=Khyros Sunblade]

The problem with all that is no one contacted me saying there would be active peace talks going on. I was told to be on the station, that that's where we would start, and the Mandalorians would invade from there and we'd all fight. A separate Senate story for peace talks was added, but it was announced that there should be no interference from it on the fighting.

Also, there were supposed to be naval forces. It was arranged in the invasion agreement that our naval forces would start in the system. Apparently, our naval writers changed their minds without telling me, because they didn't show up for a week. I even included mention of them in my narrative just so they'd be placed and was chewed out for it. But from the OOC perspective, she had all the support she needed.

The following is from the invasion OOC description itself, for reference:

"The Republic was informed by a loyalist. The fleets are already in place, comms have been hailed and the tension reached its climax ten minutes ago. Ships are being sent in, some have already (just about) landed in a few bases such as Nickel One and 'The Hub.' While this may seem implausible, this is also mainly implemented for the sake of having a convenient way for the Ground Forces to actually be able to write something from the get-go.
Mandalorians and Republic personnel start battling both inside and outside of the asteroid belt and not long after that it became obvious that [victor] has enough troops to make the final push. They do just that and they win the day."

So do we ignore those OOC influences, or do we find a more amicable and practical middle ground?

As far as insulting them? When an enemy shows up with a war fleet and lands a mass of troops on a friendly station, you don't start by offering them tea. What Ali offered them was perfectly in line with military doctrine: You tell them to leave, and warn them what would happen if they did not. She wasn't very well going to say "I don't think we can win this, Mandalorian Leadership, please come stay." Tbh, it's laughable that the highest ranking officer of a galactic military power would be put on trial for banter.

Imagine someone walks through your front door with a gun in hand, and they've brought friends. Giving them even a chance to respond is a dangerous way to handle things, and Ali gave them the perfect opportunity to contact her. They intentionally responded with silent comms until she had to levy a final warning.

Seems like protocol to me, so hearing "She's shown to be unable to handle the post," is a bit cringe-worthy. In the midst of Roche's chaos, Ali stayed focused and in control of her circumstances as best she could. She avoided unnecessary harm to others.
She's also handled the majority of the Republic's last handful of invasions, starting with Ord Mirit. And despite our losses, I think she did a darn good job.
You are of course free to judge another character by whatever criteria you wish, but all Ali was was strong and firm in the face of an invader, and holding that against her seems absurd, there's no middle ground, she just plain did nothing wrong. And that's okay.

[member=Suravi Teigra]

I like the details of your first proposal; they actually suit the IC circumstances and do not require anyone to alter their characters' stories against their wishes, on either side. If the Mando's want war, they can have it, and the Republic's better off keeping Ali around rather than getting rid of her because the Republic's willing enemies started pointing fingers.

That's my two creds.

Suravi, about the bounty, I'm frankly honored they thought my character worth one. If they want to try and collect, I look forward to the challenge, though I'm not sure how people go about that here on Chaos. Do you jump on the chance during an Invasion, or an "Open" thread? Does it have to be arranged between bounty-hunters and the bounty-haver?
 

Miss Blonde

Trying to be straight in a crooked Galaxy
Honestly the terms the mandalorians issued and as much as I may not agree with the mandos and [member="Popo"] I have to say he's rig- he's righ- ri- riiigh- well he's not wrong.

I think [member="Jack Sparrow"] should make an IC decision on these terms since he's the supreme chancellor and however the writer writes their character is the direction we should go in. The plot has been laid out and I think we should just run with it.
 
[member="Ali Hadrix"] I don't believe she committed any war crimes with the now infamous hangar event. From my reading, I didn't see her as intentionally trying to vent civilians. In that situation, the Mandalorians and the civilians themselves should have acted more responsibly and stayed hunkered down in shelters. I think the risk was too great in sending evac shuttles outside into the middle of a big space battle.

I still think Hadrix should be punished, but whoever participated in that initial delegation should probably get sacked too. As belligerent as the Mandalorians are, we needed to come at this issue together. As it stands now, there's a good chance we're going to end up fighting some more, while the Sith sit back and enjoy the show.
 
[member="Miss Blonde"]

I'm with you dude, screw it. The die have been cast or whatever. Lol

Oh and [member=Popo], just to address your little poopy party dude, that sports analogy would have been awesome, only the Mandos were the ones who waltzed into OUR bar dressed like clowns.
 

Popo

I'm Sexy and I Know It
[member="Miss Blonde"]
If you think on it, its kind of like a fresh faced Ensign straight out of OCS walking into a Marine mess and getting a little too invested in the old rivalries :|

That reminds me.

*makes note to remind sibling not to do that when sibling graduates USN OCS*
 

Popo

I'm Sexy and I Know It
[member="Ali Hadrix"]
I'm sorry, I don't know the rules to Croquette :|

Former amateur hockey player and I know enough football to know my home town team sucks, but I wear the Saints gear anyways.

I'm only a red socks fan to annoy people and because I lived in Boston for a time :p
 

sabrina

Well-Known Member
[member="Popo"] [member="Ali Hadrix"] one it's not football it's wimpy rugby! :p
Also if history has anything to add it's simple, they will use the insult, as away of getting there people to go to war easier, if they can't get there way.
 
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