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So this is just a simple poll, because I'm interested in the views on this.
The only area this really comes into effect is in the invasion rules. If you're a member of a Major Faction, you don't take up an ally slot when joining an invasion. I'm not worried about writing with other factions, joining stories with them etc. This is purely about whether an individual character should only be allowed to assign themselves to one major faction for the purposes of invasions.
To clarify, this is not just bout people who just join for an invasion. This also covers people who are active in two or more factions, should they be able to claim membership in both and join invasions? They can now.
How about, for invasions, you can only fill the non ally spot for the faction that is beneath your name. And that can only be requested for change once a month. Anything else, and you are an ally and must abide by ally rules.
This is a dangerous slope. As I enjoy this site for the variety of roleplayers I can write with, and alts I can play. Losing that would be crippling to be honest.
OOC - What is the difference between me having an alt in two factions, and one character in two factions? Unless you introduced an activity rule, but that only skews it to people who have more time. (But would be more preferable)
IC - I get it, but I also don't get it because one character might well have allegiances to two causes. imho it should be down to the factions involved in the invasions to rule on that. If the majors agree then that is that for example, you'll just have to pick one.
How about, for invasions, you can only fill the non ally spot for the faction that is beneath your name. And that can only be requested for change once a month. Anything else, and you are an ally and must abide by ally rules.
I was going to discuss the method after seeing what people thought, but yes, this would be my take on it. I mentioned this a while back and the questions I was given where:
- What if people don't want to use a faction tag
- What about new members and making new accounts
My responses would be
- Tough (this is already applied to Force Ranks)
- Caveat, members with less than 50 posts are exempt, but their inclusion shall be the responsibility by faction leaders. (obvious abuse would be reportable)
I'm not even certain I have a strong view on this needing to be managed. I don't think it's been obviously abused yet.
Hmm, I probably wouldn't bother with that rule myself. Seems a bit excessive. I'd leave it open for staff to decide if people are deliberately tag hopping to join invasions. Should be obvious enough.
What I also don't think people see yet, is that factions with both Jedi, Sith, and Dark Jedi will benefit from this type of rule or thinking more than anyone else. Especially if its pushed to be account wide, which is the next logical step for it to effect anything.
Because those factions allow the widest range of characters, so you can have your Jedi and Sith alts, all muses in them, they can even be at odds in some cases. So if you want to skew things towards that sort of inclusive of all types faction, especially ones that allow internal struggles, this is the way to do it.
What I also don't think people see yet, is that factions with both Jedi, Sith, and Dark Jedi will benefit from this type of rule or thinking more than anyone else. Especially if its pushed to be account wide, which is the next logical step for it to effect anything.
The major problem is like my character some people have outstanding reasons to be a multi faction char where others do it because of clear ooc reasons. so my point is that those people with ic reasons could be harmed by a rule targeting something that helps them make a story.
Everyone is so worried about their clouds these days you all that do worry about your clouds are ruining actual good storytelling. And then use the it makes a good story excuse when it benefits you. And you people know who you are so I don't Need to name names or factions.
If an individual is actively apart of multiple factions (and I mean like legitimate activity. You can see this person in a solid chunk of the threads) then I don't give a hoot if they join an invasion on the side of whatever factions they serve.
However, if they've done little more than click the join button, then they need to take up an ally slot. Faction Admins and Owners know who their active members are, of this there is no doubt, so it should fall to them to make sure that those who fight for them are active. If they choose not to in the hopes of getting an advantage, then there's this magical report button...
I'd like to think that, when invasions come up, every major faction's leadership and members don't turn into a bunch of folks who seek loopholes in the rules. However, it seems like every invasion or invasion discussion between major factions recently (Prime vs. Mandos for example) has spawned this same poll/discussion/gripe.
So, I'm just gonna quote Captain Ginyu on this one: "Cut the crap and fight."
Faction Admins and Owners know who their active members are, of this there is no doubt, so it should fall to them to make sure that those who fight for them are active. If they choose not to in the hopes of getting an advantage, then there's this magical report button...
I'd like to think that, when invasions come up, every major faction's leadership and members don't turn into a bunch of folks who seek loopholes in the rules. However, it seems like every invasion or invasion discussion between major factions recently (Prime vs. Mandos for example) has spawned this same poll/discussion/gripe.
People like rules. Rules keep people safe. When people don't feel safe, they create rules and appoint individuals to enforce those rules.
It's the basis upon which humans have built their various societies.
In a roleplay setting or a videogame or any other mundane medium, there are a great number of seeminly innocent, simple actions that can make people feel unsafe. Not because another individual is actively abusing the lack of a rule to cause any individual direct or intended harm, but because the lack of said rule makes those individuals who are aware of its absence to feel vulnerable.
Do we lose anything by creating this one major faction rule? Not really.
Do we gain anything from it? Not really.
If someone is active in two factions, exceptions can be made by Faction Admins on either side based on the active participation of a character in one of the factions involved in the invasion. Thus allowing the character to count as a member and not an ally.
But lets look at this a little closer...
Lets say that the Mandalorians and the OP have a mutual defense pact. Both IC and OOC.
IC, the ships and soldiers of either faction only belong to one faction or the other... Not both. There is no duel citizenship happening. If a Mandalorian wants to be deployed to OP space, he would (OOC) switch factions for a few weeks or months, commit himself to protecting OP, and then return to the Mandalorian faction (OOC) and Mandalorian space (IC) at the end of his deployment. If, during his deployment, Mandalorian space comes under attack... too bad! He's an OP asset deployed in OP space. If he wants to protect Mandalore, he needs to do so as an Ally.
IC and OOC, this makes sense and seems fair. At least, it does to me. But then again, I've been awake for about 30 hours...
But let's look at the alternative... And, I'm not saying that anyone does this... But it does remain a possibility for so long as rules preventing it are not established.
OP and Mandalorians have a mutual defense pact. They agree to help with eachother's dominions and invasions. OOC, both factions flood every available thread with members of both factions and IC, people are swinging from one side of the galaxy to the other as they participate on adventures with their friends. The two factions become so intermingled that it is hard to tell where one faction ends and the other begins. And when an invasion occurs, the membership of both factions flood the thread without ever touching an ally slot. Because each member views himself as a member of both factions.
Now... I know that's a bit of an extreme case... But lets look at something a little more down to earth.
I have a Mandalorian Wookiee that is also a Force User and a Mercenary. Clearly, the wookiee is a member of the Mandalorian faction. But then lets say the Republic or the LS or the SJ get themselves stuck in an Invasion and are pressed for help. They need all the help they can get, but they've already filled up their ally slots. Well... There was that one time that the wookiee got force training from that one Jedi that wanted to teach him how to hold his breath for an hour... So he can totally dual faction with that Jedi's group! So lets throw the random Wookiee in class 10 Beskar armor into the thread as a member of said faction so he can laugh at the puny lightsabers and wrestle rancors while drinking beer and singing Mandalorian war songs. Because who can tell me that I'm NOT a member of that faction, and who's going to turn down the help when they obviously need it badly?
So... (Bare with me here, my brain is running on coffee and taco bell) I think that the IC and OOC conditions of the board are supportive of this rule for a purely logical sense. It simply makes sense. Yes, there may be a few odd characters here or there that call multiple factions home... But those characters would likely be spending "a few weeks here, and a few over there" as they travel from one location to another, hang out for a while, and then move on to the next area. IC, those characters would not be in both faction's territories at the same time. And if one faction came under attack, and said character chose to protect that particular faction's territory, he would not be available to help defend the other faction's territory at the same time.
OOC, there are plenty of arguments to be made against such a rule being put into place... And I'm sure there are a few good OOC arguments in its favor (such as my wookiee example above). But I think it's worth looking into, even if only to promote the IC sense of "one faction at a time."
Technically "Off Topic", but I feel it's related to the root issue and does provide an alternative answer to the question this poll is attempting to resolve.
Alternatively, this seems to be stemming more from a concern about fair play in invasions and less about individuals being active with more than one faction. Specifically, people don't like getting into a fight and finding out that they are facing five to one odds. Recently, the Mandalorians and the Primeval were discussing a possible invasion, but negotiations dragged on for a considerable amount of time. Part of the discussion, as best as I can understand it, revolved around concerns over number of alts per writer, number of allies, and duration of the thread. Neither side wanted to be spammed by the alts and allies of their opponents and neither side wanted to be overrun through a thread running either 'too short' or 'too long'. I proposed a simple alternative that could actually have some potential to alleviate some of the concern over "How do we keep Invasions 'fair'?"
Captain Larraq said:
One alt per writer. 5 allies + 5 per 15 opposing writers in the other faction. Aka, Mandos crank out 20 Mandalorian characters, the other faction gets 10 allies. Other faction only manages 10 characters, Mandoes only get 5 allies. Guess what? Ends up with ~20 characters per side. You can do the same BS and allow as many alts as people want. Each new alt adds to the list of allies the opposing faction can pull in.
Instead of focusing so strongly on who does and does not belong in a thread, or limiting a writer to only one character, I think that a flexible and scaling pool of allies to pull from could potentially help keep things fair.
5 allies + 5 per 15 opposing writers in the other faction (allies do not count as 'opposing writers' for the purposes of this formula)
Faction A musters 12 characters to fight for their side.
Faction B musters 30 characters to fight for their side.
Faction A recruits or hires 12 characters to fight as allies.
Faction B recruits or hires 5 characters to fight as allies.
Faction A has 24 total characters fighting on its side.
Faction B has 35 total characters fighting on its side.
The more popular faction still retains a significant numerical advantage... But the thread has become a significantly more fair and balanced writing environment for all involved than if no allies (or only 5 each) had been made available.
Weren't people already complaining about counting in Dominions?
The reason we want rules is because we don't want to deal with this problem ourselves. Staff has made it's position clear - this is the Faction Admin's problem.
Not ours.
All we do is enforce, you guys do the reporting and we'll start kicking people from Invasions.
I am not sure of the exact nature of the topic proposed, because it feels like, as [member="Captain Larraq"] mentioned, this is about more than one issue. Because of this, I'm going to look at it from an IC point of view, because I don't know the arguments or reasons for OOC issues.
Let's say Sorin, who is apart of the One Sith, decides to be around the Primeval for a little while, but does not join; he only spends time with them. He might like both factions, but when it comes down to it, he considers himself a Sith and not a Primeval. He might help the other faction if they need it, and would come in as an Ally, not as a member of the faction itself. If it came to it that both factions were fighting each other, for whatever reason, he would ultimately choose the Sith.
With this being the case, I think that OOC have to reflect that flexibility, and Larraq's suggestion of using the 5 allies, plus others depending on the amount of the opposing force, would work wonders in my opinion. And as far as multiple characters from one writer, I think that option should be used when every writer that wants to be apart of the invasion already have one character in it. At least that's my opinion, just to be fair, but there are always exceptions for the sake of moving the story forward.
If the question is should Characters be allowed to be in 2+ major factions then the answer should and always be yes. But since this is about Invasion then agree with [member="Isley Verd"] and what stated.
Isley Verd said:
So, I'm just gonna quote Captain Ginyu on this one: "Cut the crap and fight."
