Daughter of Fen
Thoughts, feels?
Make it constructive please
Make it constructive please
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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New Ship Guide Discussion
- Thread starter Lina Ovmar
- Start date
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- staff
Nimir-ra to Iella, Jedi Shadow
It looks nice, you guys did good work and loadouts for weapons can keep some from being too much. The new dev thread requirements can make it quite nice and fun. Adds another level to the dominions beyond simply taking a world now we can build something or develop during it to fulfill objectives and the plot.
HK-36
The Iron Lord Protector (Neutral Good)
Well not sure if we're discussing the New Guide or if we're discussing what should be the New Guide next, buuut
As to the New Guide,
Maybe we should go more into what exactly is a "superweapon", planet killers for one, sure, but is there anything else in this category that should be there? Machines that could close or open Black Holes, for example, or huge ionic weaponry
As to what the New Guide should be next,
"Guide to Being a Droid," "Guide to Being a Droid Without Acting Like a Droid," "Guide to Mixing Star Wars With Fantasy" :3
As to the New Guide,
Maybe we should go more into what exactly is a "superweapon", planet killers for one, sure, but is there anything else in this category that should be there? Machines that could close or open Black Holes, for example, or huge ionic weaponry
As to what the New Guide should be next,
"Guide to Being a Droid," "Guide to Being a Droid Without Acting Like a Droid," "Guide to Mixing Star Wars With Fantasy" :3
Jacen Cavill
I Am Death
@[member="HK-36"] Superweapons will be thoroughly listed in the banned weapons list. Really powerful things will be on the "limited" list.
HK-36
The Iron Lord Protector (Neutral Good)
@[member="Darron Wraith"] Ok, that's good
Gilamar Skirata
The most important step is always the next one
So it gives Balanced, Hevay Guns, and Heavy Fighters (Carriers)
Is it safe to assume that a dev thread can still be used to create specialized weapons of war. For example, would it be possible under a dev thread in this new system to create a Naast under a limited production?
Also, I would like to ask if it would be possible to mod the Naast's submission and take out the laser cannons
Is it safe to assume that a dev thread can still be used to create specialized weapons of war. For example, would it be possible under a dev thread in this new system to create a Naast under a limited production?
Also, I would like to ask if it would be possible to mod the Naast's submission and take out the laser cannons
Ashin Varanin
Professional Enabler
When this concept was first proposed, I argued against it, but the finished product overcomes or outbalances all my original objections, and I like this. A lot.
L Admin
If it's reasonable, yes. You'll have to work that with the associated RPJ.
Torjesgo
Crazy Man McJangle
Just to make sure I'm reading it right:
No more pending technologies? Create the dev thread prior to the submission? My question with that would simply be should the dev thread stop at the use of the item? Or is it acceptable to use the item in the dev thread prior to submission?
On a separate note:
The Speed and Maneuverability have always thrown me a little bit. Must the ship be both Y-wing speed and have Y-wing maneuverability, or can it have say 3 speed with 4 maneuverability?
Otherwise looks good, gang!
No more pending technologies? Create the dev thread prior to the submission? My question with that would simply be should the dev thread stop at the use of the item? Or is it acceptable to use the item in the dev thread prior to submission?
On a separate note:
The Speed and Maneuverability have always thrown me a little bit. Must the ship be both Y-wing speed and have Y-wing maneuverability, or can it have say 3 speed with 4 maneuverability?
Otherwise looks good, gang!
Daughter of Fen
@[member="Torjesgo"]
Its viable to use it in the dev thread, I'm fine with that.
With regards to speed and manoeuvrability, you pick one number for the overall stat.
Its viable to use it in the dev thread, I'm fine with that.
With regards to speed and manoeuvrability, you pick one number for the overall stat.
Torjesgo
Crazy Man McJangle
Forgive me for the long message, I do not know how to do the "drop down" option. :wacko:
But I would suggest modifying the "Good Ship Example" as it hints at otherwise and has been what I've been going off of. If such hasn't already been spotted by staff.
Darron Wraith
Honor | Duty | Courage
@[member="Torjesgo"] Thanks for pointing that out, good eye broseph.
I'm fixing that.
I'm fixing that.
Akio Kahoshi
Peace through Order
Over all I like trying to simplify the ship creation process, however I feel this over simplifies to the point where there is no longer much reason to bother with factory. Everything is just the same, and incredibly boring.
The same effect can be done with a point system that retains overall balance. I mentioned to Jacen before, the two limits on a ship are space and power. So a person gets X points for their ship based off length, can use a maximum of Y on power required and Z on space required. Engines and hyperdrive would use some, fighters, weapons, and trooper capacity would as well.
Right now this system doesn't even take into account specialized things like gravity well projectors (which would substantially reduce space/power), or troop capacity. It also does not take into account difference in fighter size. When I designed the TIE Katar I specifically designed it so that it was small, so that 16 would take up the same space of 12 TIE Qiang. Now it behooves me to just carry the maximum number of the post powerful fighter available regardless about how big they are.
The same effect can be done with a point system that retains overall balance. I mentioned to Jacen before, the two limits on a ship are space and power. So a person gets X points for their ship based off length, can use a maximum of Y on power required and Z on space required. Engines and hyperdrive would use some, fighters, weapons, and trooper capacity would as well.
Right now this system doesn't even take into account specialized things like gravity well projectors (which would substantially reduce space/power), or troop capacity. It also does not take into account difference in fighter size. When I designed the TIE Katar I specifically designed it so that it was small, so that 16 would take up the same space of 12 TIE Qiang. Now it behooves me to just carry the maximum number of the post powerful fighter available regardless about how big they are.
In Umbris Potestas Est
I... don't really like the modifications, truth be told, and @[member="Akio Kahoshi"] primarily covered my concerns. If everyone is ultimately going to have the same firepower and hangar capacity for the same size and type of starship, what's the point of making new starships? Each faction's ships turn out to be exactly the same when it comes to attack power for their type, so why should new faction ships ever be made if the ones currently in service will last forever due to fulfilling the spec requirements?
As Akio also said, we're not taking into account specialized ships, such as interdictors or the odd vessel with esoteric properties(the Monitor-class corvette, for example), who don't fit within the mold of their ship class per the Anaxes War College System. As well, did the tech redesign include foresight or guidelines in regards to freighters, transports, medical ships, or other not-combat-intentioned vessels when this was originally started? And where are new guidelines on fighters or small craft? Are there new guidelines for small craft? There's a lot that seems to be lacking in this update...
In my opinion(which, let's be honest, probably doesn't mean that much), wouldn't it have been better to simply utilize the aforementioned tables above as a guideline for approving ship subs, instead of mandating that all ships have this many guns and this much hangar space depending on their craft type, in order to allow for variance between faction ships falling into that category? The mandation admittedly makes slapping together a ship especially easy, but it, as stated previously, takes the fun, creativity, and variety out of the factory.
/issues
As Akio also said, we're not taking into account specialized ships, such as interdictors or the odd vessel with esoteric properties(the Monitor-class corvette, for example), who don't fit within the mold of their ship class per the Anaxes War College System. As well, did the tech redesign include foresight or guidelines in regards to freighters, transports, medical ships, or other not-combat-intentioned vessels when this was originally started? And where are new guidelines on fighters or small craft? Are there new guidelines for small craft? There's a lot that seems to be lacking in this update...
In my opinion(which, let's be honest, probably doesn't mean that much), wouldn't it have been better to simply utilize the aforementioned tables above as a guideline for approving ship subs, instead of mandating that all ships have this many guns and this much hangar space depending on their craft type, in order to allow for variance between faction ships falling into that category? The mandation admittedly makes slapping together a ship especially easy, but it, as stated previously, takes the fun, creativity, and variety out of the factory.
/issues
Ashin Varanin
Professional Enabler
Exactly. Goodbye arms races and power creep in unrealistic timeframes. That was on purpose.
I'll refer you to Tef's statement where he mentioned that highly specialized ships can be negotiated with the RPJ in question. This was already addressed.
That was on purpose. In those areas (freighters, non-combat ships, non-combative attachments) you have flexibility. You're seeing a design feature and an immense opportunity as a flaw.
If it gets put in as a guideline, it then goes right back to status quo: People trying to one-up each other through ever-higher amounts of bargaining, tricky math, and dev threads, while taking up immense amounts of staff time. And you'll have even more 'how did HE fit that in when I couldn't?' angst. So, no. Putting this in as 'guidelines, more than actual rules' is not progress.
Darron Wraith
Honor | Duty | Courage
This is to simplify it, and make it to where we aren't constantly updating every ship out there. Each faction doesn't need 18 star destroyer types, and the turnover rate on technology was quite ridiculous.
S H A D O W
Also in the end it helps staff and everyone - it opens the doors for the rest of the member base to enjoy the factory and isn't just limited to a few people. Lets face it not everyone is tech savvy. This allows simplification of the system for both ends (Staff and Member base).
Darron Wraith
Honor | Duty | Courage
Yes, here's what happens now in bullet point form.
- Firm guidelines ensure speedy approvals and no submissions sitting around forever.
- No haggling over gun counts, or having 18 tabs opened trying to make sure the ship can pass approval.
- No "precedents" that can be pushed forward more.
- No ships getting approved that can be used against staff later, everything is a set standard from the get go.
- Our expectations for approval are firm, so you as the submitter should have no issues making a sub.
- The factory is open to all players, and not those who pour over tech specs for hours.
- A faction can build a fleet in a month and be set for it's life time on the board and not having to constantly improve to catch up.
S H A D O W
IE: The Factory has been standardized.
Coryth Elaris
Shortstack of Fire
I get the reasoning for the system, but this feels so cookie cutter with ships. Isn't the purpose of in a galaxy at war for nations to have arms races? Competition? Racing for the best tech. Being afraid of that the others have?
Simplify this for those who aren't tech savvy but what about an alternative for those who are, to keep those arms races going, but keep them in check. Too much simplification brings boredom, cookie cutter, and I fear this is what it is bringing. I loved reading all the different ships, seeing the development behind it. I feel this is taking away from that.
I'm with Akio, and Pandeimia. This might be too much of an extreme or we need to perhaps offer an alternative for those who are tech savvy who like to build ships and such. Like I said I get the reason, I really do. But in my opinion this dulls the stories around these ships. It's now just numbers for a fleet basically. Nothing special that I can see.
Simplify this for those who aren't tech savvy but what about an alternative for those who are, to keep those arms races going, but keep them in check. Too much simplification brings boredom, cookie cutter, and I fear this is what it is bringing. I loved reading all the different ships, seeing the development behind it. I feel this is taking away from that.
I'm with Akio, and Pandeimia. This might be too much of an extreme or we need to perhaps offer an alternative for those who are tech savvy who like to build ships and such. Like I said I get the reason, I really do. But in my opinion this dulls the stories around these ships. It's now just numbers for a fleet basically. Nothing special that I can see.