Aedan Miles
Pirate King
Corsairs find this pretty acceptable and only question I have is the PC captained vessels and what not. IS it only A PC captained vessel or the ships over 400 meters can only be PC captained?
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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New Ship Guide Discussion
- Thread starter Lina Ovmar
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Darron Wraith
Honor | Duty | Courage
@[member="Aedan Miles"] all the rules on that matter have stayed the same. 
Aedan Miles
Pirate King
OK Thanks
A P E X
Three words:
ALL MY YES
That is all, carry on
ALL MY YES
That is all, carry on
Judas of Vahl
Beyond Broken
If they're personal vessels like mine, then they're only allowed up to 400 meters. However, if you're in a Minor faction, then ships up to 1000 meters can be PC captained. The 1km long ships aren't theirs, but the PC may use them at the disposal of their respective faction. If Major, then the length can go up to 2km, but exceptions occur from special-event ships like another one of mine.Aedan Miles said:
Jsc
Disney's Princess
Fleeting - Fleeting is a Gentleman's Agreement between Sirs. Ships should be compared for 1v1 PvP or not at all. Categorize them by size, cap them by armament, and approve them just like a balanced Character. I enjoyed the new rules I read.
How to build a Ship - As for how to build a ship? I still have no idea how it's done respectably. So I would compliment this guide for showing a noob like me a few 'goals', or targets, or ceilings with which to aspire to. I would hope every RPJ would use this as a guide, gold standard, and beginning place for their negotiations with members as well.
How to build a Ship - As for how to build a ship? I still have no idea how it's done respectably. So I would compliment this guide for showing a noob like me a few 'goals', or targets, or ceilings with which to aspire to. I would hope every RPJ would use this as a guide, gold standard, and beginning place for their negotiations with members as well.
Darron Wraith
Honor | Duty | Courage
@[member="Jay Scott Clark"] That guide is the ceiling my friend. Keeps us honest and shows you how far you can push it, anymore and it ends up in the archives with that pretty "denied" sticker.
Torjesgo
Crazy Man McJangle
Moved to correct thread from the other one.
I do have a question about the Armament Levels.
There doesn't appear to be tractor beams allocated for anything but the Heavy Gun class and even then, the heavy gun class for Cruiser doesn't mention tractor beams at all. I hope this is an oversight, or are only heavy guns allowed to have tractor beams?
I do have a question about the Armament Levels.
There doesn't appear to be tractor beams allocated for anything but the Heavy Gun class and even then, the heavy gun class for Cruiser doesn't mention tractor beams at all. I hope this is an oversight, or are only heavy guns allowed to have tractor beams?
Judas of Vahl
Beyond Broken
@[member="Torjesgo"]
I assume that they are allowed but you have to add them in at the expense of other armament.
I assume that they are allowed but you have to add them in at the expense of other armament.
Nyxie
【夢狐】
I'll make this simple since I lost my lengthy original post -- didn't completely autosave.
The class system has major holes and inconsistencies. It accounts for a vessels total length, but I have recently been informed that the FJs actually judge them by their longest dimension. That's a big problem. I'll start off by giving you a really crappy example about food; I've lost the desire to be professional about this and I'm also craving for a muffin right now.
One ship is a chocolate chip muffin. The other ship is a chocolate chip pancake. They're both made from the same brand and boxes of cake batter. The muffin is measured by its longest side, so it passes standards with flying colors. Well, suffice to say it's pretty well rounded down and, well, predictable. The pancake also gets measured by its longest side. However, the pancake is classed like any other cake because it's wide on its radius -- much wider than what you'd call a muffin. So even though they came from the same ingredients, and have roughly the same quantity of Chocolate Chips, the pancake is treated like a regular cake, and thus outclassed over the muffin. Suddenly the baker wants to charge more money for this poor old pancake. Feels bad man. *hugs the lonely pancake*
I have at least a mild experience with this kind of thing professionally, and even I - forgoing any skills but common sense - don't need to point out all the wrong in that concept. And that's our current model for classification. It's really inconsistent, because not every ship is going to fill out its mass in the same way. If everything looked like a muffin, snacks would be BORING AS HELL.
Now to the important part;
I propose vessels be measured in the sum of all their dimensions on the XYZ axis, rather than only by its longest side (especially considering measurements from things like antennae and protrusions do count). While I know it will never substitute 100% for plain old good judgement and total mass, it's the closest you will get to accurate and it's a helluva lot more fair and true to its reading.
inb4 But then people will intentionally make ridiculously long, slender ships: Simple, make a cap that each dimension can reach up to per class, with exceptions handed out on a case-by-case basis for ships exceeding that with a very valid reason and very specific size. Honestly, it's not all that hard.
Like if you agree....
The class system has major holes and inconsistencies. It accounts for a vessels total length, but I have recently been informed that the FJs actually judge them by their longest dimension. That's a big problem. I'll start off by giving you a really crappy example about food; I've lost the desire to be professional about this and I'm also craving for a muffin right now.
One ship is a chocolate chip muffin. The other ship is a chocolate chip pancake. They're both made from the same brand and boxes of cake batter. The muffin is measured by its longest side, so it passes standards with flying colors. Well, suffice to say it's pretty well rounded down and, well, predictable. The pancake also gets measured by its longest side. However, the pancake is classed like any other cake because it's wide on its radius -- much wider than what you'd call a muffin. So even though they came from the same ingredients, and have roughly the same quantity of Chocolate Chips, the pancake is treated like a regular cake, and thus outclassed over the muffin. Suddenly the baker wants to charge more money for this poor old pancake. Feels bad man. *hugs the lonely pancake*
I have at least a mild experience with this kind of thing professionally, and even I - forgoing any skills but common sense - don't need to point out all the wrong in that concept. And that's our current model for classification. It's really inconsistent, because not every ship is going to fill out its mass in the same way. If everything looked like a muffin, snacks would be BORING AS HELL.
Now to the important part;
I propose vessels be measured in the sum of all their dimensions on the XYZ axis, rather than only by its longest side (especially considering measurements from things like antennae and protrusions do count). While I know it will never substitute 100% for plain old good judgement and total mass, it's the closest you will get to accurate and it's a helluva lot more fair and true to its reading.
inb4 But then people will intentionally make ridiculously long, slender ships: Simple, make a cap that each dimension can reach up to per class, with exceptions handed out on a case-by-case basis for ships exceeding that with a very valid reason and very specific size. Honestly, it's not all that hard.
Like if you agree....
Aithne Charr
Heir of Fire
@[member="Alachei Mnemenos"]
Normally i would agree with you, theres just this to say. A ship was judged for its length not its total dimensions in Canon ships. Thus why i assume that staff decided to judge them by their length here. Like what im trying to say is a perfect example is a Mon Calamari MC 80 Compared to a Imperial II Star Destroyer. Both are the same length, but i can be quite sure that the MC 80 is larger height wise. And i forget where i was going with this... point is in Canon ships were categorized by length to my understanding and so staff categorized ships by length here... again i could be wrong.
Normally i would agree with you, theres just this to say. A ship was judged for its length not its total dimensions in Canon ships. Thus why i assume that staff decided to judge them by their length here. Like what im trying to say is a perfect example is a Mon Calamari MC 80 Compared to a Imperial II Star Destroyer. Both are the same length, but i can be quite sure that the MC 80 is larger height wise. And i forget where i was going with this... point is in Canon ships were categorized by length to my understanding and so staff categorized ships by length here... again i could be wrong.
Nyxie
【夢狐】
@[member="Juthan'Athar"]
That would be great if they were actually judging by length. Like I said, I was told they judge by the longest dimension, not the length alone. To further my claim, though, I was also told twice (in my words) that sometimes the canon doesn't amount to crap in RP terms because some of the stuff is ridiculous. So they are either contradicting themselves somewhere along the line, or my original argument is further rectified.
Very good input though!
That would be great if they were actually judging by length. Like I said, I was told they judge by the longest dimension, not the length alone. To further my claim, though, I was also told twice (in my words) that sometimes the canon doesn't amount to crap in RP terms because some of the stuff is ridiculous. So they are either contradicting themselves somewhere along the line, or my original argument is further rectified.
Very good input though!
In Umbris Potestas Est
Biggest loophole with the ship rules is that there are gaps in the capship listings.
As well, I've only recently realized another issue with this: it removes a company's urge to be competitive, and thus, grow. I already have several ships currently equal to or superior to the starfighter and starship limits, so what rationale do I have to ever make new tech to grow my company with? I'm stuck. Stymied. Can't progress forward the way I'm supposed to.
So if I make a 1050m long ship, there's no rules for that. I'm of the opinion that the class system previously in play - the Anaxes War College System - should have been used when developing limits for starships.
As well, I've only recently realized another issue with this: it removes a company's urge to be competitive, and thus, grow. I already have several ships currently equal to or superior to the starfighter and starship limits, so what rationale do I have to ever make new tech to grow my company with? I'm stuck. Stymied. Can't progress forward the way I'm supposed to.
D O M I N U S
@[member="Alachei Mnemenos"].
It is my humble opinion that the members of staff judge primarily based on length due to the nature of the Star Wars canon. The vast majority of canon capital ships, at least to my understanding, are characterized by length being the largest measurement of the vessel, with width and height being proportional to the total length. Your submission "breaks" the norm, due to the fact that the vessel's longest measurement is its width, and not length.
Due to the fact that this is a Star Wars board, and the canon standard is that the largest measurement of the ship is length, the rules state that submissions will be judged on the basis of length as the largest increment. However, in the interest of fairness and consistency, it is my opinion that your submission was judged by the largest measurement, due to the fact that it is unusual in the context of Star Wars.
Simply put, vessels built in the image of Star Wars canon generally have length as their largest measurement. Since yours was seemingly inspired by Ace Combat (which is one of my personal favorites and I applaud your wonderful taste), its norm proportions are different. So, in the interest of fairness and consistency, it is my opinion that the acting member of staff who judged your submission simply took the norm of the site and applied it to what was prevalent of your submission.
So, all in all, the submission was judged based on what has become site standard. Please do not take this personally, for the staff are simply doing their best. This is a roleplay site, after all, and they have volunteered their time in order to fairly and consistently judge all the submissions which enter the Factory. You do good work, keep it up!
@[member="Circe Savan"].
It is my humble opinion that, due to the fact that the template provided guidelines in increments of 100 meters, that if presented with a submission with a length ending in -50 meters, the standard by which it would be judged can either be rounded up or down depending upon staff discretion. This is far from being a loophole, since staff would simply refer to the guide they have made and make an educated, fair judgment based upon it.
In reference to your Company, the only thing I can suggest is make deals with factions. I reference Blas-Tech Industries in this regard. You have several ships, but without adequate exposure and utilization by the player base, then you are indeed stymied. All I can advise is get out there and do what we all came here to do: roleplay!
Make deals, make friends, get your ships to be a household name and then BAM, you'll be all set to go. But once more, this is just my humble opinion.
It is my humble opinion that the members of staff judge primarily based on length due to the nature of the Star Wars canon. The vast majority of canon capital ships, at least to my understanding, are characterized by length being the largest measurement of the vessel, with width and height being proportional to the total length. Your submission "breaks" the norm, due to the fact that the vessel's longest measurement is its width, and not length.
Due to the fact that this is a Star Wars board, and the canon standard is that the largest measurement of the ship is length, the rules state that submissions will be judged on the basis of length as the largest increment. However, in the interest of fairness and consistency, it is my opinion that your submission was judged by the largest measurement, due to the fact that it is unusual in the context of Star Wars.
Simply put, vessels built in the image of Star Wars canon generally have length as their largest measurement. Since yours was seemingly inspired by Ace Combat (which is one of my personal favorites and I applaud your wonderful taste), its norm proportions are different. So, in the interest of fairness and consistency, it is my opinion that the acting member of staff who judged your submission simply took the norm of the site and applied it to what was prevalent of your submission.
So, all in all, the submission was judged based on what has become site standard. Please do not take this personally, for the staff are simply doing their best. This is a roleplay site, after all, and they have volunteered their time in order to fairly and consistently judge all the submissions which enter the Factory. You do good work, keep it up!
@[member="Circe Savan"].
It is my humble opinion that, due to the fact that the template provided guidelines in increments of 100 meters, that if presented with a submission with a length ending in -50 meters, the standard by which it would be judged can either be rounded up or down depending upon staff discretion. This is far from being a loophole, since staff would simply refer to the guide they have made and make an educated, fair judgment based upon it.
In reference to your Company, the only thing I can suggest is make deals with factions. I reference Blas-Tech Industries in this regard. You have several ships, but without adequate exposure and utilization by the player base, then you are indeed stymied. All I can advise is get out there and do what we all came here to do: roleplay!
Make deals, make friends, get your ships to be a household name and then BAM, you'll be all set to go. But once more, this is just my humble opinion.
Darron Wraith
Honor | Duty | Courage
@[member="Alachei Mnemenos"] Your suggestions are noted, and we do appreciate the feedback from our members. As it stands, the factory was made to be more "user-friendly" to those who aren't of a tech-minded nature. This new system allows for great flexibility, and can easily be used to your advantage. As it stands, I don't see the need to complicate the ship making process further, or making those who volunteer their free time do a math formula to check your total dimensions.
@[member="Circe Savan"] While their may be "gaps" why do you need to make a ship of such a specified length? Also, to your points about the ships and no new need to make new technology. Well to that I can simply say, that no company would make new ships at the rate you have been. Also, you can make as much technology as you want, but the true test is selling all of your tech to groups and factions. I feel like you're missing out on one of the better elements of companies and tech creation, actually doing the business deals. So I encourage you to attempt that, and I hope you both have a great night.
@[member="Circe Savan"] While their may be "gaps" why do you need to make a ship of such a specified length? Also, to your points about the ships and no new need to make new technology. Well to that I can simply say, that no company would make new ships at the rate you have been. Also, you can make as much technology as you want, but the true test is selling all of your tech to groups and factions. I feel like you're missing out on one of the better elements of companies and tech creation, actually doing the business deals. So I encourage you to attempt that, and I hope you both have a great night.
Nyxie
【夢狐】
@[member="Darron Wraith"] It's just A+B+C math, but duly noted. At the very least I'd like you guys to consider my cruiser submission in particular based on its body and the "meat" of the ship rather than its hypothetically two-dimensional wingspan. I do realize that most ships are, well, the big blocks and big wedges and that this is not typically the norm. Though, that's the joy in it, creating something different, something alien.
(Edit: As it stands, if I scale everything down equally to the point where the wingspan is 999.99 meters, the ship wouldn't realistically have enough space to fit nearly half of the contents that a regular heavy cruiser would be entitled to. That's what I'm trying to say.)
Aside from that, I've made my point. And if people are comfortable with the current class system, then there's no further reason for me to debate it.
(Edit: As it stands, if I scale everything down equally to the point where the wingspan is 999.99 meters, the ship wouldn't realistically have enough space to fit nearly half of the contents that a regular heavy cruiser would be entitled to. That's what I'm trying to say.)
Aside from that, I've made my point. And if people are comfortable with the current class system, then there's no further reason for me to debate it.
Torjesgo
Crazy Man McJangle
I know I ran into this when I was a factory judge elsewhere:
But the girth of the ship should matter and I believe our system allows for you to argue your case, so long as you have a valid reason.
For instance, if I were to make a ship that was only 400m long but was a circle, I imagine one could argue that it's equivalent to a 600m meter ship if not more. I would say just classify it as what "that length" is, and make a reasonable argument as to why a 400m sphere is equivalent to a 600m cylinder. etc
At least that is what I observe as I don't foresee the RPJs as only viewing X or Y, but valid arguments and effort can do a great deal more justice than a silly number.
But the girth of the ship should matter and I believe our system allows for you to argue your case, so long as you have a valid reason.
For instance, if I were to make a ship that was only 400m long but was a circle, I imagine one could argue that it's equivalent to a 600m meter ship if not more. I would say just classify it as what "that length" is, and make a reasonable argument as to why a 400m sphere is equivalent to a 600m cylinder. etc
At least that is what I observe as I don't foresee the RPJs as only viewing X or Y, but valid arguments and effort can do a great deal more justice than a silly number.
I have one question about ships... It is said, that an individual cannot make a ship longer than 400 metres. But @[member="Logan Hack'awin"]'s family has created a huge (well, not over 1000 metres, just to be clear) ship. I'd like to bring it into RP, but there are some problems with that.
- Logan isn't the creator of the ship. The creators are probably dead now.
- Logan isn't a member of any faction. This means, that the longest the ship can be is 400 metres, but the ship the family should have is definitely longer than 400 metres.
L O S T
@[member="Lilith Mae Lancaster"]
You cannot without it being Faction-owned, rules are rules and shouldn't be bent or broken.
Ontop of this the account for Logan is very new, and would require at least 50 posts before a ship can be made on it (or any Factory submission)
For a single character you wouldn't need more than a 400 metre ship anyway, and if you do end up creating a whole family for him, and for the ship to be used by? Well Factions can be made which are Family-orientated as opposed to your typical Empire/Order
You cannot without it being Faction-owned, rules are rules and shouldn't be bent or broken.
Ontop of this the account for Logan is very new, and would require at least 50 posts before a ship can be made on it (or any Factory submission)
For a single character you wouldn't need more than a 400 metre ship anyway, and if you do end up creating a whole family for him, and for the ship to be used by? Well Factions can be made which are Family-orientated as opposed to your typical Empire/Order
Thank you for the answer! I'll just start with creating a huge family, then...