Non-Faction Members Should Not Exceed Faction Members In Dominions

[Ali Hadrix]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]: I get that, makes sense. Well, I don't think your suggestion is threatening enough to include (preemptively or not), and the benefits are very clear, so I'd support this. If it proves to be a problem, it's as simple as deleting the sentence and posting a notice.

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Elayne Hawk"]

Again. What I'm suggesting is not restricting allies in any way, it's merely asking that there be a balance between faction members in a dominion. Think of it like the invasion rule where only a maximum of 10 writers may aid either side as an ally. My suggestion only limits the participation of non-faction members involved to the same number of faction members involved.

Whether or not people enjoy their dominions is up to them, but it's clearly not a faction effort if twice the writers involved are not part of that faction.

I respect what you're saying here because it is true that unlike invasions, a dominion isn't as essential to a faction's effort in a certain sense but at the same time the more planets you have the more restricted resources you can have easier access to, the harder it would be for an enemy faction to annex yours or cut it down the middle... It may not be as essential but it still is an essential aspect of running a major faction. Name one active faction that's never done a dominion?

 

[Tefka]

I find it hard to accept this as a solution to a problem that only a few are aware of. I do not know which thread or factions this is referring to, and keeping it a secret for fear of confrontation really hurts your cause.

 

[Hal Terrano]

[member="Tefka"]

LINK.

This is the the most obvious and recent example, of an 8 Faction to 15 Non-Faction member ratio. It is doubtless that there will be more, but actively searching through old dominions to tally member ratios and multi-factioned characters would ultimately be tiresome.

 

[Serenity]

You need to differentiate multi faction and non faction... there is a difference.. which one are we talking about?
Also it looks like they hired mercenaries I don't see a problem with that... they even got paid by red raves which is weird but still I mean it all looks by the books...

[member="Hal Terrano"]

 

[Chiasa Kritivaas]

You need to differentiate multi faction and non faction... there is a difference.. which one are we talking about?
Also it looks like they hired mercenaries I don't see a problem with that... they even got paid by red raves which is weird but still I mean it all looks by the books...

Everything by the books here, no need to investigate further citizens...

*plotting intensifies*

 

[Serenity]

*investigates you* [member="Chiasa Kritivaas"]

 

[Delila Castillon]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]


If someone wants to do the legwork for a faction then let 'em. It's their time.

 

[Boethiah]

If someone wants to do the legwork for a faction then let 'em. It's their time.

The suggestion doesn't prevent non-faction members from helping out. It's a pretty fair and reasonable suggestion because it maintains the fact that dominions--which are strictly for factions; only they can start them--should be a faction effort. So why shouldn't the amount of non-faction members be limited to the amount of faction members involved?

By using the example Hal linked above; if a thread has 8 faction members and 15 non-faction members then that's about twice as many people not part of the faction doing the effort for a faction activity. The one thread in particular; roughly 38% of the effort was done by the faction that actually started it. 24 posts -- barely 25% of the thread -- has been achieved by the faction involved yet it's over half way done due to non-faction effort.

Don't get me wrong, I'm only using that as an example. I don't even have to go through every once-upon-a-time dominion to know that similar cases do exist. This just happens to be a recent one which I can use as an example.

Faction's should have to put in a majority effort to complete a dominion. They gain the planet after all. It'll make it harder for factions to gain planets, in a sense, but shouldn't that be the case?

Do we want another map that looks like this?

 

[Olom Grihk]

If a non-faction member wants to jump in on dominions, they should. I'm not terribly interested in numeric balance. Some factions use hired hands for work, others only let their own men get their hands in the viscera. As someone who plays a factionless merc for multiple characters, I feel that dominions is one of the few places we really get to shine, as invasions usually just go for the most powerful force-wielders from a friendly faction.



I honestly feel that this rule, while made in good faith, is going to end up reducing posting opportunities for unaligned characters. While i legitimately get your concerns, I don't really think we need to further curtail opportunities for people who want to work for and with factions without joining them full-time. I also feel like this adds unnecessary complications to determining the success of a dominion. Do we really need to add more micro-managing to the method here?

 

[Sasha Santhe]

The suggestion doesn't prevent non-faction members from helping out. It's a pretty fair and reasonable suggestion because it maintains the fact that dominions--which are strictly for factions; only they can start them--should be a faction effort. So why shouldn't the amount of non-faction members be limited to the amount of faction members involved?

By using the example Hal linked above; if a thread has 8 faction members and 15 non-faction members then that's about twice as many people not part of the faction doing the effort for a faction activity. The one thread in particular; roughly 38% of the effort was done by the faction that actually started it. 24 posts -- barely 25% of the thread -- has been achieved by the faction involved yet it's over half way done due to non-faction effort.

Don't get me wrong, I'm only using that as an example. I don't even have to go through every once-upon-a-time dominion to know that similar cases do exist. This just happens to be a recent one which I can use as an example.

Faction's should have to put in a majority effort to complete a dominion. They gain the planet after all. It'll make it harder for factions to gain planets, in a sense, but shouldn't that be the case?

Do we want another map that looks like this?

If part of your reasoning for this is slowing down dominions to make it so the map doesn't get as cluttered as fast as before I think I have a fairly easy solution. Let Minor Factions invade but not hold onto territory. So big guys dominion a world and invade a world and take it over. I've seen a lot of resistance groups pop up and claim they are fighting back against the oppressors or what not, but really since there is no support in the rules they can't actually do anything (I mean they could by talking to Faction Admins and getting something going but who does that?) If you gave them the opportunity to launch an invasion to make a planet neutral again you'd create opportunities to unclutter the map.

In addition you could get some neat factions out of this. Planetary governments would be viable now, rebel groups, pirate groups protecting their bases…. I mean the idea has merit. I remember when I first joined there was a group trying to get a Hapan faction going. They only wanted the one dot on the map but had to go major. So they had like 5 out of 6 members needed to go major and the Republic came in and dominions the world. One of the players was allowed to become senator and we didn’t really see them again after that. Now imagine if a Minor faction could invade. The Hapan players could have fought back maybe freed their little starcluster, or maybe not. *shrugs* Either way could be interesting and could help keep the map uncluttered depending on how dedicated minor factions are and what they are all about. And a planetary government or small group doesn't really need to be on the map so it really wouldn't be more work for the admin team on that account. I don't know just spitballing ideas here.

Now as for the rest of it, I don’t know. I can see both sides of the argument and since only one instance (Unless I missed something, which is possible) was brought to our attention I’d say wait and see. I don’t know if a single instance requires this reaction. If there are more and it becomes a larger more frequent issue? Sure I’d be 100% for it because you're right factions should be required to put work into it.

 

[Reverance]

It may only be one instance now, but silence, in this case, might suggest condoning (not that anyone is consenting to anything, just the implication) or at least the absence of condemnation. Especially since it's been brought the forefront.

I think it's a good rule and further pushes the significance of being in a specific faction towards the domain of dominions, instead of just invasions.

 

[Boethiah]

Let Minor Factions invade but not hold onto territory. So big guys dominion a world and invade a world and take it over.

I really like this idea but I think it'd warrant its own suggestion thread. I actually tried to get something similar, where opposition in dominions could set terms that actually made a difference but it got turned down. But your idea seems like a better solution... Besides, it's about time the Rebellion idea kicked off.

Back to the topic at hand; I understand that from a single (recent) instance it might seem like that, but it will happen again.

t may only be one instance now, but silence, in this case,might suggest condoning (not that anyone is consenting to anything, just the implication) or at least the absence of condemnation. Especially since it's been brought the forefront.

This is an unfortunate truth.

 

[Sasha Santhe]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"] & [member="Reverance"]
Can you confidently say that there will never be a scenario in which it is okay for a faction to have fewer members than say an opposition faction. What if I as Super King Big Nuts of the Empire of Sasha Santhe dominion a world, and while doing this I get together with the Super Rebels of Sigma IV and agree that we will treat it like an invasion and they can repel us. I think we'd all agree that would be acceptable. My only issue with adding layers of rules is that it could stifle little mini events generated by players and faction admins. Now once again, if we start seeing this a ton more yeah lets stifle away because the potential for story ceases to be as great as the issue. Until then, I don't know... public shaming of the offending party? Well obviously we can't do that but admonishment in a way that doesn't add layers of rules would be preferable in my opinion.

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]
You’re right off topic. Just figured it was worth a mention. I’ll probably put a thread up tomorrow or the next day about it.

 

[Boethiah]

Can you confidently say that there will never be a scenario in which it is okay for a faction to have fewer members than say an opposition faction.

No, I can't. Because there will be and actually are ways to achieve that; just not in dominions. The rule thus far is that the faction that starts a dominion will get the world once completed and even if every major faction on the board ICly backed an opposing force in the thread.

Call it broken and not story friendly but you've already came up with an ample solution by actually enabling a force to liberate a world and neutralize it. That's a feature that could not be enabled in dominions without adding many rules atop that. I'm only adding one in this suggestion.

Edit: In dominions an opposition is just story flavour. Your earlier suggestion could potentially open up a third mode of conflict; if written well and with enough support I don't see why it wouldn't be an acceptable feature.

 

[Zambrano the Starweird]

Actually... now that you mention it, if a faction approves an opposition force with your suggestion Anja, couldn't they theoretically legitimately sabotage their dominion efforts by simply being more active in the thread? (obviously without steamrolling them, that would discredited)

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Zambrano the Hutt"]

I don't know if you were around when I made a few suggestions for dominions and invasions (It's actually how I was allowed to hold an invasion over neutral world). I was told by two admins that no matter what the opposition is, the faction that starts the dominion will gain the planet. That's because the only requirement for the story is that it must be believable. If the opposing faction is impossibly outnumbering them, then it would be voided all together for being unbelievable and even the opposition wouldn't be able to call it canon.

 

[Zambrano the Starweird]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"] But your suggestion states that a dominion may not exceed a certain percentage of non-faction members, does this void it canonically, or just makes it so they lose?

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Zambrano the Hutt"]

My suggestion is that it would count against quality. I mean the required writers rule, and and the 1/5th rule has nothing to do with roleplay. It's an OOC countermeasure to make sure that it's a team effort. My suggestion has nothing to do with the storytelling, either, it's about making sure that it's a faction effort.

 

[Zambrano the Starweird]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"] I'm aware of that. What do you mean by a count against quality? It either goes through or it doesn't, does this rule enforce that you cannot have more than x number of non-faction writers in a dominion by making so they do not gain the planet, or does it lose all canonity?